Future Hall of Famers/Evaluation (NL)
by Andrew GM on Jun 29, 2010 11:04 AM EDT
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PrintI recently discussed which current American Leaguers are future Hall of Famers. Now I'll do so for the National League, which has numerous candidates as well. Repeating the ground rules:
1. We are only examining players who are still active and playing with a team.
2. I am not discussing players below the age of 30.
Now let's get into it.
Chipper Jones, 3B/LF
Chipper Jones is a very interesting case, and some people think he's a borderline case, but I think he's a Hall of Famer. I don't think he'd get in on the 1st ballot like his former pitcher teammates, but he'll get there. Why's that? He was among the best players in baseball for 14 years, a long time to be sure. He hit .310 with 408 home runs in that span, an average of 29 per year. He also put up terrific 4017 total bases in that span, with 448 doubles to accompany all of those home runs, as well as an average WAR per year of 5.3. Not too shabby to be sure. He was also a member of one of the greatest dynasties baseball has ever seen. His Atlanta Braves won 15 consecutive division titles, and he was the key offensive player on 11 of those teams. One can't really blame him for the Braves' struggles in the playoffs, as he hit 13 postseason home runs and put up a solid .288 batting average. In his rookie season, he hit .363 in the playoffs as well. His recent decline is bringing his career batting average down, but it should still end up over .300 (currently at .306). Chipper also showed himself to be a team player in 2002 when the Braves signed Vinny Castilla to play 3rd and Chipper agreed to move to left field for him. He was one of the stars of the team, he easily could have made a huge fuss about it. But he didn't, and he was back at 3rd two years later. He won an MVP in 1999 and won his first batting title at age 36 in 2008 with a .364 average. I think Chipper's a Hall of Famer. Few players have matched his production over the years (in addition to no talk of PEDs around him).
Best season: 1999 (ATL): NL MVP, .319/.441/.633, 1.074 OPS, 168 OPS+, 7.0 WAR, 41 2B, 45 HR, 110 RBI, 116 runs, 25 SB
***
Pudge Rodriguez is arguably the best defensive catcher of all time. It's either him or Johnny Bench, and when people can compare you to Mr. Bench, it means you've had a damn good career. He's been among the elite catchers in baseball for 20 years now, starting as a 19-year old with Texas in '91. No one in the history of baseball has caught more games or recorded more putouts at the catching position than Pudge. He's also recorded 1176 assists, mostly from gunning down baserunners via caught stealing or pickoff. In his career, he's thrown out a startling 46% of baserunners. So for about every two times baserunners ran on him, they were caught. Wow. It's due to this that he's won 13 Gold Gloves (which are to be taken with a grain of salt, but still). I've written a lot about his defense and haven't even gotten into his offensive prowess yet. He has a .299 career batting average, terrific for a catcher. He's hit 306 career home runs as well as 559 doubles (the active leader and 23rd all-time). If he continues to play another two years (possible since he has been very durable), he has a shot at 3000 hits (currently at 2761). Pudge was one of Texas's key offensive players in their 3 division title winning teams in '96, '98 and '99. There have been some whispers that he may have juiced with Rafael Palmeiro & Juan Gonzalez, but there has been no evidence too concrete yet, so I think he deserves the benefit of a doubt. He helped carry the Florida Marlins to the World Series title in 2003 with 17 RBI in the playoffs including 10 as the MVP in the NLCS 3-1 series comeback against the Cubs. I-Rod was also instrumental in the recovery of the Detroit Tigers' franchise. He was ballsy enough to sign with them after their 119-loss season in '03 and got them back to respectability and the '06 AL Pennant. Even though Yankees fans remember his lousy time here in '08, he's a Hall of Famer without a doubt. Anyone who says otherwise will be thrown out by Mr. Rodriguez.
Best season: 1999 (TEX): AL MVP, .332/.356/.558, .914 OPS, 125 OPS+, 6.0 WAR, 116 runs, 199 hits, 29 2B, 35 HR, 113 RBI, 335 TB, 25 SB
***
Manny Ramirez, RF/LF/DH
Hehe. There was no way I was gonna put Mr. Ramirez in a Sox uniform on this site. I think he had his best season in Cleveland anyway. But regardless of what Manny may have been putting in his body, he's one of the best pure hitters I've ever seen. He's hit 554 homers in his career and though he's slowing down, he might hit 600. From his beginnings with the Indians (31 homers in '95 as a 23-year old) to his slugging days attacking the Green Monster with the Red Sox (142 homers and 131 double all-time at Fenway) to his rejuvenation of the Los Angeles Dodgers (.396 average and 17 homers in 53 games down the stretch in 2008), he has been arguably the most dangerous hitter on each time. He's also been the most prodigious slugger the expanded postseason has ever seen, with 29 home runs in 111 games, the all-time record. His career batting average is .313 and he's 8th all-time in slugging percentage with a .589. Few players have been quite the character Manny has been and love him or hate him, he's one of the best hitters of the generation. A Hall-of-Famer for sure.
Best season: 1999 (CLE): .333/.442/.663, 44 HR, 165 RBI, 131 runs, 173 OPS+, 1.105 OPS, 8.0 WAR
***
Trevor Hoffman, CL
Trevor-time is one the best relief pitchers of all-time. At 596 saves, he is the all-time leader, and though the previous all-time save leader is not in the Hall (Lee Smith), I am quite sure that Trevor will be there in 8 years (or less). He was healthy for nearly his entire career, and as a result, he's had 14 seasons of 30+ saves. Few people know he actually was drafted as a shortstop by the Cincinnati Reds. Fortunately, they soon moved him to the mound, where he slowly rose until the Florida Marlins claimed him in the expansion draft, then traded him in '93 to the San Diego Padres, where he would excel as the 2nd best closer in baseball for 15 years. His changeup was one of the most devastating pitches in baseball in that timespan, and batters have hit just .210 against him over his career. One of the best closers in baseball history.
Best season: 1998 (SDP): 73 IP, 1.48 ERA, 53 saves, 265 ERA+, 0.849 WHIP
***
Albert Pujols, 1B/OF
via students.ou.edu
Yep, this guy's a surefire Hall of Famer already. He just turned 30 in January and he qualifies, but I think few people would argue against this man anyway. Even if he got badly injured and his career ended tomorrow, he would be a Hall of Famer. Don't believe me? Check his stats right now and compare them to the famous Pirate Ralph Kiner.
Pujols: .332/.427/.623, 382 HR, 1163 RBI, 171 OPS+
Kiner: .279/.398/.548, 369 HR, 1015 RBI, 149 OPS+
The stats are better already and Pujols still has plenty of baseball left in him. He could end up very high on the all-time home run list. He also has 403 doubles, 1800 hits, 1163 RBI and 1112 runs scored. He has had at least 30 homers and 100 RBI in every year he's been in the bigs, starting in 2001, a Rookie of the Year season. His career WAR is already 79.3. Yikes. After not having a set position for a couple years, he has proven himself to be a great defender at 1st base as well, which is just gravy. Pujols also has been incredibly clutch, with 13 postseason homers to carry the Cardinals to playoff success, including the 2006 World Series. The season I picked as his best was not even an MVP season (he's won 3). What's staggering is that we don't even know if he's hit his peak yet... Prince Albert will be a Hall of Famer.
Best season: 2003 (STL): .359/.439/.667, 212 hits, 137 runs, 51 2B, 43 HR, 124 RBI, 187 OPS+, 394 TB, 10.9 WAR (This is the stat that did it for me. Wow. Almost 11 wins above a replacement player)
***
So those are my Future Hall of Famers. Including the last list, we have:
Chipper Jones
Ivan Rodriguez
Manny Ramirez
Trevor Hoffman
Albert Pujols
***
Note: Yes. I know there are no starting pitchers. But frankly, there are no starting pitchers currently pitching in the big leagues with such incredible career numbers that I think they would a be a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame. The starters I came closest to putting on were Roy Halladay (50.9 career WAR) and Andy Pettitte (49.8 WAR, 100 games over .500), but neither are definite.
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Roy Halladay arguably has a shot at the hall of fame at this point in his career.
Tim Hudson possibly a slim shot if he can stay healthy?
Jim Edmonds has a shot at the hall of fame as well
In Jeter, We trust.
If Halladay keeps doing what he’s been doing for another 5 years I think he will have more than a good shot.
Tim Hudson’s 35 in July and even though he’s had a good year this year, his best are probably behind him and his numbers are only above average. Very good player, but I think he is least likely of the three you suggested. Also never much of a playoff pitcher save for the 2001 ALDS, and he still couldn’t beat the Yanks.
Jim Edmonds’s best selling card in his defense, but it’s not as overpowering as like an Omar Vizquel because there have been so many other great CF’ers in his day too. I guess he could be in the HoF one day but he’s definitely not a shoo-in.
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
The tricky thing is...
The lines for hall of famers are going to have to be redrawn. Due to the massive ban on substances… power numbers could POTENTIALLY decrease dramatically. I’m not saying this will happen.. I’m saying POSSIBLY.
I can nearly assure you that we will not see a pitcher start his career today and end up winning 300 games. It just doesn’t happen. With the over-emphasis on the bullpen and having a 5 man rotation, 300 games is virtually non-existent anymore.
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 28, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
That's it.
I’m not sure if he’d be a slam dunk either. He’s been a great player, but I just don’t get an instant “HoF vibe” from him. Never playing in the World Series doesn’t help. I wouldn’t mind if he got in though, I just don’t think he’s for sure.
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
If Fred McGriff doesn't get in,
Delgado definitely shouldn’t. Crime Dog had a better career, and he’s only a borderline Hall of Famer.
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
I thought McGriff was kind of borderline even if he got 500,
Though it would help his case with numbers-driven writers.
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
Yeah I also think hes borderline
I just think it would be a shame, that if 7 measly homers would keep him out, because if he did in fact get those 7, I think he would get in, maybe first ballot, because of the 500.
Just putting this out there.
Of course Edmonds & Beltran had higher WAR/700 than Griffey. Beltran hasn’t quite hit the downward swing of his career yet (though it will probably come soon). Edmonds’s will go down a lot after this year with the Brewers. Compare them again when their careers are over and I can say with 99% certainty that The Kid’s will be better.
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
Throw Milton Bradley in there as well!!!!
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 28, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He does.
He said it earlier, that’s part of what sparked the Bagwell/Griff discussion
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
Did he come back from camp today or something?
He’s been posting up a storm today
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 28, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he just doesn't know better because he's going on stats alone.
If he’s 15 now, then he was like 10 when Bagwell retired and Griffey was in his later days with Cincinnati. So he never saw the real thing and is thus relying on stats alone to guide his judgments. Which of course doesn’t always tell you everything.
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
It has nothing to do with WAR, stop trying to blame the statistics as if they're being misused.
It’s the fact that you cannot compare the offense from a firstbaseman to that of a CF. A CF who puts up a 5.0 WAR is much more valuable than a 1b who puts up 5.0 WAR.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jun 29, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If I can get a word in, lol!
the question as presented by great scott was who would have a higher percentage in
his FIRST ballot? Well I can go with my head or my heart. My head says Fat Albert,
by the time he is done (barring injury), he is going to have serious numbers. The man
has already put up serious numbers in the first half of his career. Secondly, I think Jeter, thirdly MO, sadly HOF voters don’t put closers in the same category as everyday players.
Not saying I agree, it’s the way it is.
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
He is the life of the party, even when he doesn't attend.
"It doesn't take more than one person, to talk to a woman.
Stay thirsty my friends."
I voted Mo over Jeter
because Mo has been so dominant since becoming the closer that it’ll be hard for voters to ignore, not to mention his ridiculous post-season numbers. I also have a feeling some of the voters will take into account Jeter’s “defensive statistics” and some morons may penalize him for it. I also think time of retirement will be a factor. Chances are when Mo retires there aren’t going to be many pitchers on his level that will become eligible the same year, at least none that I can think of at the moment.
I voted Mo
Now, A-Rod is the best player of this generation, but the steroids are going to take votes away from him (even though I still think he will get in).
Rivera is the GREATEST RELIEVER OF ALL TIME. Thats enough for me. Anyone who says Rivera isn’t a Hall of Famer needs to get themselves checked.
I vote Chipper cause I ♥ Chipper
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 29, 2010 11:25 AM EDT reply actions
Maybe you
can send him a text mesage to retire after this year, and do something about his yellow teeth.
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
He is the life of the party, even when he doesn't attend.
"It doesn't take more than one person, to talk to a woman.
Stay thirsty my friends."
by Great Gatsby on Jun 29, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It's amazing
how one argument could fill up a thread so quickly.
To compare Griffey to Beltran, Bagwell, and Jim Edmonds is absolutely ridiculous. Griffey doesn’t even compare to Derek Jeter for god sakes! Griffey is one of the best players of ALL TIME!!!! There are currently TWO players in major league baseball right now that compare well to Ken Griffey Jr. That is Albert Pujols, and Alex Rodriguez. If you compare ANYBODY else who is active to Griffey and you need your head examined. WAR, and these other crap statistics don’t tell you the whole story. You obviously didn’t see Griffey play in his prime. Sorry, but he blows Bagwell out of the water.
If you don’t agree with me, make a call to Mike Francesa and tell him your argument. You’d be waved off quickly, he’d make a quick comment that you’re insane, or get into a rage, and move on. And for once he’d be right.
You make good points
but Griffey has zero rings, as compared to five for both Jeter & Mo..It’s the only reason for example the late Kirby Puckett was a first ballot HOFamer, in my opinion, his numbers were not awe inspiring, but he had two rings.
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
He is the life of the party, even when he doesn't attend.
"It doesn't take more than one person, to talk to a woman.
Stay thirsty my friends."
by Great Gatsby on Jun 29, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The fact that his career was cut short by injury while he was still good didn't help
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
HOF players
Who are you to be a person to try to determine who will be HOF’s? You know nothing more than I do. And I do not think I am any more capable of doing that than you are. Just because you are a writer does not make you “God’s” word…….Writers should not have any say on who makes it to the HOF. It should come from the players themselves….not people who have ever played the game.
What are you talking about?
There are no “writers” on here, this is a blog, express your opinion, that’s it, then sabe it!
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
He is the life of the party, even when he doesn't attend.
"It doesn't take more than one person, to talk to a woman.
Stay thirsty my friends."
by Great Gatsby on Jun 29, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
... uh
What….? Did you wake up on the wrong side of bed this morning ndirish? Or is it all the years of stress piling up because ND can’t win a big football game if their lives depended on it?
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 29, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It's ok
I’ve been a diehard ND football fan since I was 9 so I’ve been suffering as well… I don’t understand why his comment is ok?
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 29, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm an ND fan too
No need to open old wounds since there will be a whole new pile of wounds this season
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jun 29, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Man whats with all the tarded wagoners?
Are the Yankees giving free tickets away to special needs schools or something lately?
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 29, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i say MO
only b/c although Jeter will be mr yankee. there are still haters out there becuase of his position and how analysts will find ways to say he benifited from the yankees as much as they benifited from him.
but MO… he is lights out, hands down the most dominant closer i have ever witnessed…and he’s still great at 60 yrs old
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
IMNSHO
Mariano deserves to be a unanimous HOF selection on the 1st ballot. I’m sure there will be some douchebag writer from some suburban shopper paper who will not vote for MO so he/she can get the obligatory 15 minutes of fame. That said, I know of noone who deserves first ballot HOF status more than MO.
"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel
by tnredneckyankeesfan on Jun 29, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions
you know it won't be unanimous
it’s never a unanimous vote. EVER. Not even Babe Ruth got a unanimous vote into the HOF
I know it won't be, i think it should be.
"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel
by tnredneckyankeesfan on Jun 29, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
a lot of players should get unanimous votes
but don’t. i mean, Ricky Henderson didn’t when he got in. i mean, who in their right mind who follows baseball thinks that Ricky Henderson does NOT belong in the HOF?
I agree with you redneckyank
He absolutely should be unanimous
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 29, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
BBS..
I just noticed that you’ve commented more on PSA than OTW… that’s ironic lol
In Jeter, We trust.
Just read through some of these comments...
Bagwell > KGJ
Are you kidding?
Manny > Arod
BBS, how on Earth can you accuse anybody of being bias after making this sort of statement?
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jun 29, 2010 2:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Oh I am definetly biased.
But everyone is.
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 30, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
A-Rod > Manny By Far
Griffey Jr. > Bagwell, and he blows him away. It’’s not even close.
Neither of those are biassed. those are the truth.
I voted MO
If Baseball Ended today. With Numbers already set in stone… TODAY.
IF you take into account, Stats, and Rings… and the Domination Factor, that writers love so much. Not to mention how previous players put MO up on another level.
Mo is by far most feared by his opponent.
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
Ken Griffey is Better than Bags. ( for the record)
and No way in Hell, could you convince me, that Roberto Clemente is #45. on any List Yo
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
Voted for Mo
5 rings and hands down the greatest reliever of all time. It’s really not that difficult a choice IMO
by Jedi Master A-Rod on Jun 29, 2010 3:43 PM EDT reply actions
Does anybody else get as annoyed as me when people involve Sabermetrics and shit to baseball? I mean some things are useful, but you can put me into the category that highly dislikes most sabermetrics and 100% (of what I’ve seen) of the “defensive metrics”
I think UZR is a bunch of bologna, honestly. Especially now after reading that KGJ has a “low UZR and is therefore a bad defender” nonsense.
End rant.
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jun 29, 2010 5:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
There’ s a difference between using and misusing Sabermetrics. They aren’t the end all be all, but as there really is no way to be up on EVERY player from EVERY era, it makes sense to have some objective and comparative tools at our disposal.
Sabermetrics is essentially an attempt to isolate variables and connect them to certain outcomes. For example: hitting line drives is good, and should result in hits. That simple idea spawns the idea of ball in play statistics, and can be used to determine how well someone is actually hitting the ball, instead of just looking at results.
Defensive metrics are certainly the furthest behind, as UZR is a very, very, flawed stat, and requires three seasons of data before it even becomes a viable sample size. When added to the fact that it has only been around since 2002, there isn’t a TON of great stuff there, but it’s still worth a reference.
And Fangraphs has Griffey as a +32 Fielding in 1996, and as a consistent run saver in the field up until around the time of his move to Cincinnati when injuries slowed his fielding down. Also, a ton of Griffey’s value comes from playing CF, usually a defense first position, and being an absolute force with the bat.
Sabermetrics absolutely do not support any “Griffey is overrated” talk if that helps restore some faith in the system….
You helped a bit.
I have a deep hatred for defensive metrics, at least where they stand now.
Few questions about UZR (or any other “top notch” defensive metric)
1. Are the #s changed depending on position?
2. Do ballparks have any effect on a players UZR, etc.?
3. Is there anyway to avoid defensive stats becoming skewed due to NL rules?
What I mean by 3 is:
Say Player A has always played in the AL, and Player B in the NL. Player A has always been an average CF, nothing fancy. Player B however, is a top notch CF, one of the best of the best.
Both players hit their late 30s (say 35), and its clear neither can effectively play the field anymore, but Player B has too because he is still useful offensively, but is in the NL with no DH.
When their careers are over, will Player A have the higher UZR even though he clearly wasn’t as good defensively, or is there some type of defensive metric system that can fix that so Player B has the deservingly higher UZR?
Sorry if that was hard to make sense out of. #3 was the main reason I don’t have much faith in UZRs.
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jun 29, 2010 5:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks Duggan.
I’ll do some research when I’m free and on a computer.
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jun 29, 2010 6:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It'll be interesting to see how the baseball writers
opinions on PED users changes over the next few years. Players like ARod and Manny will not be first ballot because enough will hold back their votes. If McGwire & Clemens are not in by the time the ARod & Manny retire none of them may ever get in. Manny has the added infamy of being the only one busted after the ban and testing came into place.
There is also still a list out there with over a hundred names on it. Players like Pudge, Thome and yes, Pujols, better hope they don’t piss anybody off before they get inducted.
That's why I voted for Jeter.
Yeah, guys like Arod are better, but things will hold them back.
Writers and HoF voters aren’t very kind to Closers/Relief Pitchers, so even guys that deserve to be in like Mo and Hoffman, might have a hard time.
Arod and the PED gang might never get in.
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jun 29, 2010 5:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why?
Steriod use doesn’t help you hit a baseball, that’s talent you work to acquire. It just helps you hit it harder.
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
by Gelatin on Jun 29, 2010 5:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was actually thinking the same thing earlier today
Some players take steroids and never get out of the minor leagues
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 29, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I do
we simply don’t have answers for the steroid era. We don’t know who was using it and who wasn’t. Some are already in the HOF who have used (according to Canseco). Pitchers and hitters were using them, and people SUPPORTED those players even though they knew EXACTLY what was going on.
It’s time for baseball to stop being a bunch of hypocrites, realize that steroids don’t make or break a HOF player, accept that it was an era of baseball, and let the players in. And move on. Thats the path they should take, rather than just say, “these guys cheated, they don’t deserve anything”. Thats not fair after the way they supported the steroid users in the ’90s.
I think Bernie Williams
should be on the list. At that, he should be on anyone’s top 10 player of all-time list. At worst, Bernie is the all-time Baseball Player/God-like Guitarist champion of the history of history.
LOL
Great player but… yeah probably no
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 29, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
What about Miguel Tejada?
Derek Jeter he is not, but he’s put together quite a career. Or will the steroid mess keep him out?
I also think Andy gets in when all is said and done. Not on the first ballot, but eventually.
Yanke Country...
NO TO BELTRAN AND EDMONDS!? sorry to explode.
Check their numbers compared to Griffey
Beltran not just one of the best hitting centerfielders of our time, but in all of baseball, he was arguably the best base runner/base stealer and a fantastic defender.
Beltran WAR/700=5.4 which is pretty damn good
Griffey WAR/700= 5.3
Yes, Griffey had a steep decline. Beltran has not gone through it yet (although with this current injury it looks like he might finally be). And Griffeys peak was so much better. He was a better player at his best.
But Beltran will be a HOF’er.
Same thing Edmonds. 5.9 WAR/700!
I’ve browsed around various blogs before, and I thought this wording seemed vaguely familiar. Sure enough, I checked out rootzoo.com, a Hall of Fame thread you started there. It elicited this response, from a user named “The Hill 14”:
NO TO BELTRAN AND EDMONDS!
Check their numbers compared to Griffey
Beltran not just one of the best hitting centerfielders of our time, but in all of baseball, he was arguably the best base runner/base stealer and a fantastic defender.
Beltran WAR/700=5.4 which is pretty damn good
Griffey WAR/700= 5.3
Yes, Griffey had a steep decline. Beltran has not gone through it yet (although with this current injury it looks like he might finally be). And Griffeys peak was so much better. He was a better player at his best.
But Beltran will be a HOF’er.
Same thing Edmonds. 5.9 WAR/700!
Eerily similar, no? Did you just plagiarize that? You clearly did. All you had to do was say “a user on another blog said this:” But no. You pretty much just plagiarized it. The argument is pure bologna anyway, but it’s stolen bologna, even worse.
Oh and any Met fan will tell you that the reason Beltran’s SB% is so high is because he is EXTREMELY aware of his high SB% and pretty much only runs on catchers he knows he can steal against. Seems a bit too self-absorbed- he won’t take a risk if it means damaging his precious SB%.
by crazydudenyy on Jun 30, 2010 1:32 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I messed up The Hill's quote.
NO TO BELTRAN AND EDMONDS!
Check their numbers compared to Griffey
Beltran not just one of the best hitting centerfielders of our time, but in all of baseball, he was arguably the best base runner/base stealer and a fantastic defender.
Beltran WAR/700=5.4 which is pretty damn good
Griffey WAR/700= 5.3
Yes, Griffey had a steep decline. Beltran has not gone through it yet (although with this current injury it looks like he might finally be). And Griffeys peak was so much better. He was a better player at his best.
But Beltran will be a HOF’er.
Same thing Edmonds. 5.9 WAR/700!
by crazydudenyy on Jun 30, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL BADABING!
+100 wow yankee country
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 30, 2010 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL!!!!!
OK that gets a rec
Yankee Country, plagiarism is sort of illegal (something my English teacher told me EVERY SINGLE DAY). Be careful here…
LOL +1000 to crazydudenyy
griffey argument
i live in washington and can tell a little about griffey. yes he was a great player while he played for seattle which was 8-9 years. he was however a crybaby as well. he opted out of the homerun derby in colorado. afraid it would hurt his swing and a chance at 62 which he never did reach. held seattle hostage to trade him then only accepted a trade to cincinnati. i believe also once the whole steroid user list comes out you will his name on the list. his body fell apart once in cincinnati. why? because he was on roids. you look at his size and the numbers he put up what do you think. his injuries very odd, pulling his hamstring off from the bone. he was not a stolen base machine. how many other outfielders have had that problem none. so look at his career as 8 enhanced years and 9 injury plagued ones is what you have.
innocent until proven guilty
there has been no mention or connection of Griffey to steroids, ever. I don’t think it’s fair to accuse him of that with absolutely zero evidence whatsoever.
Griffey was a HOF player, and one of the best of all time. And a first ballet HOF.
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