Eiland Coming Back Tuesday, Should The Yankees Consider Skipping Burnett?
by Brandon C. on Jun 27, 2010 5:39 PM EDT
in New York Yankees Analysis
Email
PrintThe Yankees announced today that Dave Eiland will return to the Yankees on Tuesday in New York, when the Yankees are playing the Mariners (side note: I'll be there).
When Javier Vazquez was struggling earlier in the year, the Yankees had him skip a start to work on mechanics and other issues with Dave Eiland. Since then, Vazquez has pitched wonderfully, giving up 4+ earned runs only twice. Vazquez has become semi-reliable, while A.J. Burnett has become more and more inconsistent by the day.
So, is it time to skip Burnett one time through the rotation? The Yankees don't have many good spot-start options with Mitre and Aceves hurt. Would you trust Chad Gaudin for a spot start? How about calling up Ivan Nova for one start then sending him down?
The main question is: would skipping Burnett help or hurt the team? Do the Yankees feel more likely to win with Burnett on the mound, or with a spot starter on the mound? Girardi has said he does not want to skip Burnett, but he also said that about Vazquez.
Burnett is next scheduled to pitch Friday at home against the Blue Jays. In one start vs. the Blue Jays this season, Burnett took the loss, giving up 6 runs in 6 innings. Gaudin faced the Blue Jays in relief one game and has an 8.10 ERA. Nova has not faced the Blue Jays.
Thoughts?
106 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I say start em....though the blue jays are still the bluejays...
They are in the division and and they are a lot better team then the past has shown…
We should still beat these guys 8 out of 10 times…..and I would hate to see something stupid happen come playoff time because we lost we should have won…
-Announcement Forwarded To The Following: Boston Blowsox, New York Pets, Philadelphia Phonies, And Any Other Team Who Ain't With The Empire.................
Getcha' Rings Up........
by NYYWinsRings27 on Jun 27, 2010 5:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
No, No, And No
AJ is struggling but he doesn’t need to be skipped, Gaudin doesn’t need a start, and neither does Nova. Sure AJ has been garbage of late, but he will work it out, the stuff is there. I dont want to believe it was due to Eiland not being around either. Perhaps he is tipping pitches. In his past 5 starts, 3 losses came to good teams, the other 2 losses came against Arizona and Baltimore. The Baltimore loss wasnt really an awful performance either. Not to give AJ an excuse for his latest bombing, but his grandfather did die the day before.
Skip him
call up Ivan Nova. Thats what I would do.
Clearly there is something wrong with him. Whether it’s mental or physical or both, he needs to get it worked out. Girardi has given him 5 chances to get himself worked out, and he’s been horrendous for 5 straight outings. Skip over him. Work with him on the side on his mechanics. Try getting his confidence back. Give him a mental breather.
I’ve said this before, but it worked with Mussina in 2007, Wang last year, and Vasquez this year. Why can’t they try it with Burnett? Based on past pitchers, this method has been successful. And can Nova or Gaudin (preferably Nova) really be that much worse than Burnett has been? I say skip him once, maybe twice, work with him, and have him ready, hopefully mentally and physically fresh, for a second half run.
Vazquez
Sorry, has become a big pet peeve of mine
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
Just for the record
I voted no. I think he should work overtime with Eiland Tuesday-Thursday, but it will just mess up his mindset even more if they skip him. I can be very easily swayed either way, however, as I’ve gone back and forth on this many times. That’s why I wrote the post neutrally decided.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
I think AJ has a different mindset than Vazquez
A bit more temperamental upstairs,lol. I agree, dont skip AJ. It will cause more damage than good in my opinion.
I'm sure he has been working hard on the side
when you get to 3-4 straight bad starts, I’m sure he’s been doing something extra, and paying more attention to his mechanics with Girardi and the coaches. It would shock me if he hasn’t been doing anything differently. But obviously, that didn’t work.
At this point you have to look at less of what the player would think and more about the teams need. Thats why it was such a hard decision for Joe Torre with Mussina in 2007. Moose was getting torched, but it was a tough decision based on Mussina’s great career and worrying that he would have his confidence shot and then he would never be good again. I’m sure thats a worry with Burnett like it was with Mussina, but like Mussina then, Burnett has become an automatic loss right now. I’m sure he’ll turn it around, but simply sending him out there isn’t working.
What do you think hurts his confidence more, skipping a turn to get his head and mechanics worked out, or letting him go out there again and getting hit hard, and possibly getting booed off the mound at Yankee Stadium again? I’m sure his confidence is really low already right now. Give him a mental break, a physical break (who knows, maybe he’s hurt). The latter would sink my confidence more personally. At this point, the Yankees need to win games. The race is too close right now. And I think Nova would give the Yanks a better chance to win than Burnett right now.
Interesting
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
I just dont see where Nova gives us a better chance to win than Burnett
Back when Mussina was pulled, it was different circumstances he was older than AJ is now, and didnt have much stuff. I know Moose came back and helped and went on to 20 wins the following season. Moose, like Javy, is nowhere near as temperamental as AJ either. Kennedy was dominating in the minors in 07 too, the callup had to be made. Nova has been solid in triple A, but nowhere near what Kennedy was doing in 07 to necessitate the move. Lets also look at the teams that have beaten AJ, three of those teams are very good teams. If AJ gets lit up against Toronto, it may be time to skip him. I still think he is either tipping pitches or might be injured. He was too good in April and most of May to be finished now.
I was at Kennedys MLB debut
He was very impressive
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
He was very good in 07
Really not sure what happened. I think it went to his head a bit though. He was a bit too overconfident. Seems like he doesn’t take direction well.
remember that horrible interview he had after he got beat up by the Angels
that interview seemed to turn a lot of Yankees fans against him right there.
I don’t know what happened either. He’s doing better in Arizona though.
I'd see how he does with Eiland back before I'd considering skipping him.
Maybe Dave can yell NI at him and wake him up.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jun 27, 2010 5:56 PM EDT reply actions
Ahhh - the one Great answer
I’m a little surprised by the whole topic. First we say the Doctor is coming back — but then we ask “How should we operate on ourselves”.
The question only makes sense if Eiland WEREN’T coming back. Now that he is….
Let the Doc look at his patient and then decide what’s best.
Give him one more start
then assess. I’d probably put it in his ear that if he doesn’t at least have a respectable start this time, that he gets skipped.
Simply skipping him right now isn’t a horrible idea, but doesn’t exactly solve much. With Eiland coming back, possibly that was the only thing contributing to it (why it is..who knows, who cares…).
If he stinks again with Eiland back, sure..skip and work with him. Gonna need a good AJ down the stretch.
KEEP LEE!!!
Just wondering
I figured with Vazquez they had the luxury to skip him without using another arm in his place, while with AJ, they would have to use a Gaudin or Nova, being Hughes is also being skipped. I agree with your assessment above though.
He can’t have many more starts like he’s had and remain in the rotation. I’d like to see them get another quality starter, like Cliff Lee.
yea
they could use a DH, so lets get Pujols. Could use a LF, so get Ryan Braun
KEEP LEE!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 27, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The Hebrew Hammer?
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
Maybe we could sign the Bear Jew
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jun 27, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
true
maybe add Ichiro to the list. You know, get a solid leadoff hitter and the Japanese audience back.
To solidify the pen lets pick up Broxton. Be the closer of the future.
maybe they should pick up Ichiro and Broxton too
to solidify the leadoff spot, bring back the Japanese audience, and “shore” up the bullpen.
I would only skip him if it worked out with an off day -
NOT by giving a scrub a spot start.
by PinstripedHippie on Jun 27, 2010 7:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If I were you take option #3
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:05 PM EDT reply actions
Why
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
beacuse he is pitching so awful
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah thats what they did, and I approved of it.
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If thats what they did
then why the hell is is taking so long for him to come back? I truly think he was injured
Maybe
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he is legitimately hurt too
I can see why the Mets would do this with Ollie, but this would be incredibly stupid if the Sox did it with Beckett.
If you had a choice
Gaudin or Burnett in a matchup against each other right now. Who wins.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
Burnett. Maybe.
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
So then how is Gaudin or Nova a better option?
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
Not better, but maybe equal
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
How long is he out for
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
Probaly 6-8 weeks
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Sadly it will be Dustin freakin Brown
/sigh
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
30th round pick in 2000.
He was called up one game last year. He actully pitched an inning and hit a home run.
He hits eighth in the Pawsox lineup.
ugh
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He gave up a run.
Bill Hall’s better
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
They need to get a decent bat.
Ive heard David DeJesus, Ryan Theriot, and Garret Atkins.
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes it does
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It carryed over from the Bruins
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Cheap Shot
Has nothing to do with the argument
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
No, I wasnt say it as a cheap shot I swear
I just saw it on the postgame. Kind of a Breaking News thing from me.
Ah gotcha
Kind of thought that after the comment, my bad
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
Me too, I just saw it myself
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Team seems jinxed
Every day its somebody new. Beltre had nothing to do with these ones, he cant be blamed,lol
I have a little Theory. Since Tom Brady got hurt, weve been killed with injurys. Garnett, Savard, Krejci, Pedroia, Beckett, now Victor…
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Boston sports fans got too cocky
Cervelli is seeing to it they now suffer for all the enjoyment of the past 10 years.
I am not very cocky.
In fact I would consider myself very coutious. I panic about everything.
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean cautious?
Doesn’t really mean the same thing as opposite of cocky
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
in case you havent noticed, Im not the most expert speller.
Yay for spell check
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I get spell check on blogger for my lacrosse blog
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You dont have spell check on a tool bar?
I try to use mine for every post I make, and Ive always been a decent speller.
there is? I’ll have to find that, thanks
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats excitement.
Id go do it at DRays Bat, but Ive been banned
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
after Braden’s PG, I went over and all I said was wow.
Then I was banned.
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
No. Only thing I said.
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I emailed him, but never got a response.
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If it helps
At least the Celtics won the NBA finals!
Sorry I had to
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
Two years ago.
I’ll take it obviously.
I wish we won it thsi year
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If Perkins didn't get hurt you may have
that injury really put the Celitcs in a tough position.
I’ll take it though. You can watch the Lakers (and perhaps the exact same starting lineup) threepeat next year.
I just saw
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
ok then
Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jun 27, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
V-Mart
has a broken thumb on left hand. Another on the DL, dropping like flies now.
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
He is the life of the party, even when he doesn't attend.
"It doesn't take more than one person, to talk to a woman.
Stay thirsty my friends."
by Great Gatsby on Jun 27, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't skip him
with him, it really won’t matter anyhow, no better options. Also tired of the excuses for him and phantom excuses, he has sucked, and has admiited it, enough for me.
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
He is the life of the party, even when he doesn't attend.
"It doesn't take more than one person, to talk to a woman.
Stay thirsty my friends."
He needs to be skipped....
Whatever is wrong with him…… he can’t be coddled thru it. Cause its not working. He needs some shock therapy. And that is… Pitch well or don’t pitch at all.
by Gangsta Yanksta on Jun 27, 2010 7:59 PM EDT reply actions
Couldn't skipping a start be viewed as coddling him?
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
I heard Lee was on the trading block, not Pujols, Braun, or Ichiro. I guess some of you have some inside information.
The Yankees don't need Cliff Lee.
KEEP LEE!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 28, 2010 6:10 AM EDT up reply actions
If I had a dime for everytime I've read about Cliff Lee on PSA...
+1
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 28, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Burnett should start
The guy is already a mental case… I think it would only hurt his state of mind if Girardi skipped him. I also agree with YankeeJets that the Yankees don’t need Gaudin or Nova starting a game for them. Faith shouldn’t be totally lost in Burnett, although he has been pretty awful in his last 5 starts. Plus, Eiland is back and, even though it seems strange, Burnett performs better when Eiland is with the team. The Yankees also have the best record in baseball, so they can afford to keep starting Burnett every 5th day
In Jeter, We trust.
Skipping AJ 1X
We should look at this over the entire season rather than just 1 game. I think AJ needs extra rest and a chance to take stock. I doubt if he’s hurt. Ideally, I would like to see him resume after the All-Star game to clear his head. Perhaps if the Yanks skip him once he could start one game before the break and again have some extra rest. If his legs have lost their spring this should help. You might lose one game to regain 4 or 5 from a refreshed AJ. (Do remember that this may be a delayed reaction to the 3 days’ rest last post-season.)
Not about ability ... but sanity ...
AJ needs a mental break. With Eiland coming back on Tuesday, it would give him ample time to review AJ’s issues and start rebuilding him into the .500 pitcher he is. But that will take time — because as of right now, I’d rather see Kei Igawa out there.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
For some reason, I do NOT believe that last sentence haha
In Jeter, We trust.
by Chris McKeown on Jun 28, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
And remove
SWB career leader in wins? Isn’t that why the Yanks are paying him 4 mill. a year?
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
He is the life of the party, even when he doesn't attend.
"It doesn't take more than one person, to talk to a woman.
Stay thirsty my friends."
by Great Gatsby on Jun 29, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
What’s the deal with AJ’s dependency on Eiland???
by pinstripepride on Jun 29, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions
Just people making excuses for him here
First it’s Jorge’s fault…Now it’s Eiland. Burnett’s a mental puss.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
