New York Yankee notes: Big day for Joba
by Ed Valentine on Mar 17, 2010 7:51 AM EDT
in News
43 comments
After all the arguing, all the back-and-forth between starting and relieving, a full 2009 season spent babied as a starter with the Joba Rules it comes to this for Joba Chamberlain. Pitch well today or accept the fact that you are headed to the New York Yankees bullpen. Maybe forever.
You can, of course, make the argument that this is not fair to Joba. And, of course, you would be right -- in a way. His body of work over the past couple of seasons, and the investment the Yankees have made in trying to build him into a full-fledged starter have to count for something.
The reality is, though, that Joba is in a spring competition for a starting spot. And, if this was a NASCAR race, Joba and his 27.00 spring ERA would not even be on the lead lap.
Here is what Yankee pitching coach Dave Eiland said about Chamberlain.
"He needs to have a good outing," Eiland said. "We've got to start seeing some results. We've got to start seeing some crispness to his stuff, consistency and command, not having to labor for outs every at-bat. We want to see these guys take charge of the game, to dictate the pace."
To stay with the NASCAR analogy, it is clear after four impressive innings Tuesday that Phil Hughes is in the pole position.
"He threw the ball extremely well tonight," Girardi said. "Attacked the strike zone. Had a good curveball. Threw some good changeups tonight. He let his fielders do the work, too. He looked good tonight. It seems like his fastball command gets better and better each outing, and that’s important."
My expectation, honestly, is that Joba will pitch well today. He is a guy who needs motivation, adrenaline, a challenge to bring out his best. My other expectation is that no matter what he does at this point, he will land in the bullpen.
Here are a few other notes.
- Former San Diego GM Kevin Towers officially joins the Yankees.
- Chuck Knoblauch guilty of assaulting wife.
- Tom Verducci makes the astounding observation that starting pitching will ultimately determine the AL East.
- Brian Cashman says Nick Johnson was "the obvious choice" as a replacement for Johnny Damon in the Yankee lineup.
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Jeez Knoblauch!
How horrible…………He could NEVER hit the first baseman’s glove so I don’t know if this story is legit.
All kidding aside, Joba is going to the Pen and all you Joba starter freaks out there will eat crow soon. Munch munch munch, although I have to admit I have been going back and forth on the issue too, but the Pen is where he should be. He is not smart enough to be a starter, yeah i said it. He is as dumb as a great closer should be, except for Mo of course, but he is a freak of nature, thank god! Hughes will do great as the 5th starter.
"My office is at Yankee stadium. Yes, dreams do come true."
Derek Jeter
there'll be no crow eating
Even if Joba goes to the bullpen and succeeds, that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have succeeded as a starter. And he’ll be worth more as a good starter than as a great reliever. Unless he gets a real chance to start and proves he can’t do it, there will always be the question of whether the Yankees got the most out of him.
by long time listener on Mar 17, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't think one can say it's not fair to Joba - not at all.
Ed wrote: “His body of work over the past couple of seasons, and the investment the Yankees have made in trying to build him into a full-fledged starter have to count for something.”
Yes, they count for Joba possibly being dropped from the rotation as EXTREMELY fair. This guy has been given EVERY opportunity and that’s MORE THAN fair. There is still time for him to win the job but he needs to show that he looks like the best option. Especially since he hasn’t really shown it is the regular season either. Even in the starts when he was allowed sufficient pitches – he usually ended up having trouble with command and often couldn’t get out of the fifth inning. So if he had a track record maybe he gets more leeway b/c it’s ST, but in this case he needs to show a reason to believe he’s the best option. NYY can’t just give him the job HOPING he’ll miraculously be a different pitcher come April.
Look, I’m rooting for the guy. I actually think it would be better for NYY if Joba starts, Phil works up his pitch count in the bullpen this year, and they BOTH start next year (thinking Pettitte maybe retires).
On the other hand, maybe Rivera retires and we’ll need Joba (or PH) as the closer. But, ideally if the NYY drafted , trained, and still envisions these two as starters then this is the year for Joba and next year Hughes should join him.
by PinstripedHippie on Mar 17, 2010 9:17 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
That
Is a different way to look at it. You could say his body of work has proven that he will be inconsistent as a starter, and his stuff and demeanor are better in the bullpen. So, maybe it is fair. Joba has had his opportunity.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 17, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I am confused
Is being in the Yankees Bullpen and being the future closer of the Yankees a bad thing.
Joba has the potential to be a lights closer and one the few people that could follow a legend like Rivera.
Not bad at all
And, ultimately, might be the role that Joba is built for.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 17, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
It looks...
Like that will most likely happen, they can’t keep going back forth each spring with him or Hughes. I think Hughes development was retarded more by injury than anything else, two years ago, two stints on the DL and very little pitching.
by Great Gatsby on Mar 17, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Just read the "Nick Johnson Obvious Choice" link. My mind is blown.
Paul Simon will be the voice of Thurman Munson in a new cartoon movie?! This is the headline for Yankee notes, not more blather about Chamberlain needing to pitch well.
How was Nick Johnson the obvious choice to replace Johnny Damon? The obvious choice would have been an outfielder.
by designatedquitter on Mar 17, 2010 9:39 AM EDT reply actions
He meant...
In the #2 hole in the lineup, obviously not as a defender.
by Great Gatsby on Mar 18, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Knoblauch assaulted his wife??
I guess he didn’t throw anything at her. Unless he was throwing around with some friends and his wife was watching 20 feet away, that might be the more likely scenario.
Knoblauch jokes aside, I still think that too many people judge a player’s season by spring training. There’s a lot of reserve players hitting the cover off the ball, and just as many superstars with mediocre averages or home-run totals. Spring training should be for warming up, competitions like these when players try to impress managers and “win” a job only get people hurt, and I’m definite that Joba is going to go all out tomorrow after hearing news like this.
That being said, I’ve always been for Hughes if I had to decide who to pick between him and Joba. But realising that Joba should be a closer (or 8th inning man this year) and telling him that so he can get ready for that role do stuff like take pointers from Mo is what the Yankees should be doing.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
Best Option...Joba "Pen"... Hughes "Starter"
Joba can be a dominant set-up for Mo(see 2007) and can be groomed for closer when Mo retires. Joba will never be the next Clemens.
Hughes has the potential to be a solid #2 starter after a few years. Aceves should be long relief.
Mitre & Gaudin should be traded.
by YANKEES FOREVER on Mar 17, 2010 11:11 AM EDT reply actions
Gardner
needs to get a couple of hits today he is still hitting under his weight and his last couple of hits have been off of guys that have already received or are shortly going to get there minor league assignment.
It is really great to see the Tigers and Braves games and see Melky and AJax on base and then see Gardner going to straight back to the dugout after making an out.
Melky and Jackson
are both having great springs, which may or may not mean anything, but trading both of them was just plain short-sighted. I think the Yanks are going to regret having traded them. Granderson has done NOTHING this spring and I hope it doesn’t carry into the season. And Gardner, well, I think all here know I think he is a joke.
Lets
wait and see what happens, it is March 17th not July 17th.
Melky and Jackson can break all kind of spring training records for all I care, all that matters is what they do in the regular season.
by bleachercreatures on Mar 17, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
If Winn
would little just a bit I would love to see them send Gardner back to AAA. The longer that he stay on the big league club the less that his value becomes for a future trade.
I dont know why this guy even has bats because he doesnt you them. He needs a helmet to wear on the bases and a glove. And I would tell him to show up at the park around the 5th inning because we dont need him before the 7th.
its spring training.
nothing could be more short sighted than your above statement
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frankie Camp on Mar 17, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
my bad...
that was supposed to be for david d.
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frankie Camp on Mar 17, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
david.
saying granderson has done nothing this spring is much more shortsighted than trading melky and ajax for a quality 200 IP 200k starter and an allstar centerfielder.
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frankie Camp on Mar 17, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
No the guys
that they got back are great. I just wish that their was a way that they could have kept Melky or AJax and shipped Gardner out.
GG can step right into the role that Gardner played last year late innning defensively replacement and pinch runner.
that wasnt gardners role though
he played in 108 games last year and started about 50 or 60? not entirely sure. he also had 250 ABS
thats a part time player…not a late inning defensive replacement and pinch runner. gardner did do those things…but he had a much bigger role on the team.
and come on…Granderson has 3 years on his contract and its relatively cheap for his production. there is no way you trade for a centerfielder in his prime years under team control without giving something up for him. AJax was necessary in that trade
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frankie Camp on Mar 18, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
its spring training
nothing could be more shortsighted than your above statement
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frankie Camp on Mar 17, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you guys even read my comment?
I stated it is only ST. And it is my opinion, which I think I’m entitled to, that I think they’re going to regret trading them. Also, stated nothing about getting Vazquez. Just would have liked to get him without giving up a starting outfielder. As far as short-sightedness, we’ll have to see. It’s always funny to me how some of you think your “opinion” holds more validity than others’. Must be democrats…
well they traded melky for vazquez
so essentailly you did say stuff about getting vazquez. and i never said anything about my opinion being valid…and actually i didnt have an opinion. i just stated that what you said was very shortsighted because you basically said you think the yanks will regreat trading them because granderson has done nothing in ST…which means absolutely nothing.
i dont think you realize that you need to give something to get something. the braves were gonna get talent for javy. he had an outstanding year and was 4th in the cy young voting. if you think trading an average outfielder for a pitcher like that is “shortsighted” then idk what to say to you
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frankie Camp on Mar 18, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah thank god David D isn't with the Yanks
Great, good for you david d, you think gardner is a joke! Your a joke., Your opinions are garbage. Oh and he is batting .240 now, but that doesn’t mean shit because it is Spring Training, there is the word “training” in there for a reason.
Let’s wait til the end of the year to see who’s right or not. But weighing Cashman’s decisions over what 12 spring training games? 15? IDK , I really dont care, you wanna know why………………because it is SPRING TRAINING. No go read a book on how to judge baseball talent. Thanks.
"My office is at Yankee stadium. Yes, dreams do come true."
Derek Jeter
*NOW go read a book on how to judge baseball talent. THanks
"My office is at Yankee stadium. Yes, dreams do come true."
Derek Jeter
While I agree with your premise that spring training games are meaningless
I feel the need to point out the irony of saying “‘your’ a joke’ and ‘your opinions are garbage’.”
You’re in need of a better understanding of homophones.
/Grammar Nazi
This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons.
Nah I have an education from a fine institution
LOL Yeah I took some shots, my apologies, it was 5th grade-ish, and I had one too many, St Paddy’s and me being Irish and possibly a drunk doesn’t mix or does mix well? idk.
Sorry DD, and Duggan, Homophones? Good one. Joke’s on me the day after……………….
Anyways, I felt the compassion to talk a little garbage back cuz ,as you know, I am Gardner’s Top Advisor for his 2010 campaign. The kid will do fine, and lets remember he is batting 9th not 2nd. Thanks and Happy St Paddy’s day after.
"My office is at Yankee stadium. Yes, dreams do come true."
Derek Jeter
yeah
He has his 2 hits for the month….And Blanton is the Phils 5th starter. Great so he gets hits of the 5th starter and minor league guys.
well to be fair
most players do their damage against the 3, 4 and 5 starters. its the all stars that do damage against aces and 2s as well. no one is saying gardner is an allstar here.
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frankie Camp on Mar 17, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
id be perfectly happy
if gardner gets 400-500 plate appearances, hits .270, gets on base at .350 and steals 40 or 50 while playing solid defense.
i honestly wouldnt be surprised come october if those are his numbers…assuming he gets the ABS.
then again he could get exposed as an everyday player. who knows? i wanna see though
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frankie Camp on Mar 17, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
From the # 9 guy!
That would be a great line…
If he surprises and gets near .400 OBA… I’d like to see him switched with Nick (Although “Double-Play Jeter” might become a problem!
;o)
by NY on Mar 17, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But do you think that he will
.238, 1 HR a inside the park, 50 RBI 55 R
he doesnt even need to top that
they have plenty of offense. his speed defense is what is attractive. like people have said there is no need for an allstar caliber player at every position.
i could easily see gardner hitting .260-270. with an OBP of .345-350 and 5 HRs…40-50 RBIs and 40-50 SBs if he gets enough playing time. i would be really happy with that production
I believe in the Church of Baseball
by Frankie Camp on Mar 18, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And Blanton is the Phils 5th starter...
Actually he is the 3rd starter, Happ is the 4th, and I’m not sure yet is the fifth, in case you are scoring at home..
by Great Gatsby on Mar 18, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
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