Are you comfortable with Cano protecting A-Rod?
by Ed Valentine on Mar 15, 2010 11:01 AM EDT
in News
53 comments
One of the big questions for our New York Yankees coming into Spring Training was who would hit fifth, the key spot in the lineup as protection for Alex Rodriguez.
Well, Manager Joe Girardi answered it yesterday. In what will likely be the Yankees' regular lineup Cano will hit fifth, with Nick Johnson in the two-hole and Curtis Granderson seventh.
Are you comfortable with Cano in this slot? It's a gamble by Girardi. Cano has all the tools, but despite driving in 85 runs last season and 97 in 2007 clutch situations have never been his thing.
Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News summarized Cano's challenge this way:
If he is to be successful, he’ll have to do better than .207 with runners in scoring position, which was 111th out of 118 players in the AL last year with at least 100 at-bats with RISP.
That's ugly. Cano batted fifth 50 times last season, and if you remember that did not work out too well. A quick check of BaseballReference.com provides even more ugly Cano numbers in 2009.
- He hit .204 with two outs and runners in scoring position.
- He hit .224 in 'high leverage' situations vs. .366 in 'low leverage' ones.
- He went 2-for-17 (.118) with runners at second and third, 4-for-18 (.222) with runners at first and third, and just 11-for-61 (.180) with runners at first and second.
Robbie's career numbers in the clutch aren't really any better.
- A .253 batting average in 'high leverage' situations vs. .323 in 'low leverage' spots.
- A .250 career average with the bases loaded, and .262 with runners at second and third.
- With two outs and runners in scoring position, his career average is .243.
- One final number: When the Yankees when Cano hits .347 for his career. When they lose he hits .246.
So, what is the difference in Cano when the pressure is on? He is a terrific, free-swinging contact hitter. And I think that is both a blessing and a curse.
He can get his bat on just about everything, and when a pitcher puts the ball in the strike zone Cano can hit just about anything hard, no matter where it is thrown or what pitch it is. When the situations are 'low leverage' pitchers are not as likely to nibble or try and get him to chase. Better pitches to hit, more success.
In those clutch situations pitchers are going to nibble more, throw more breaking balls, off-speed stuff and try to pinpoint specific spots. Cano tends to maintain that aggressive approach, swinging away at the first thing he can reach. Thus, he ends up swinging at more 'pitcher's pitches' and not hitting the ball with as much authority.
To me, Cano is not afraid of these situations. He just needs a better plan. He needs to have a better idea of what he is likely to see, and try to get the pitch HE wants to hit. Too often, he seems to swing at what the pitcher wants him to hit.
As Girardi said Sunday in discussing this move "Robbie's not a young player any more."
It is time for Cano, entering his sixth season, to step up and become a key middle-of-the-order hitter for the Yankees. Girardi is banking on it.
All Yankee fans can do is hope that when Cano takes the fifth this April he certainly isn't silent about it.
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I felt better when Kate Hudson was protecting ARod.
I don’t expect Cano to change who he is mid-career (which is where he is- he’s not a kid anymore). I expect Posada or Granderson in the 5 spot by June.
by designatedquitter on Mar 15, 2010 11:11 AM EDT reply actions
Girardi...
is also trying to break up having LH hitters back to back, also has Swish hitting behind Granderson, we will see on Cano?
by Great Gatsby on Mar 15, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Let him have the spot
early, see what happens. Sometimes you have to force guys to mature into their potential. I like the move.
"That's why you don't play! 'Cuz you're no good!" -Joe Paterno
Hahaha yeah OK.
Then Robbie will smack the shit out of the ball and they will regret walking Arod. Again, by your criteria if Cano isn’t good enough to protect Arod who else can?
We already had this conversation, no?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Mar 15, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be great
but what makes you think that? What “criteria” do you use? Must just be your sheer brilliance, I guess. Is something different this year as opposed to what he’s done in the past w/RISP/ on base? Like I said, Posada to “protect” A-Rod. He’s a SH and has fared well there in the past, Einstein.
.285 /.363/.522 will “protect” Arod
but
.320/ .352/.520 = Arod will be walked intentionally or not just about every time up.
Makes perfect sense.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Mar 15, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Its more about the type of hitter
Posada knows what it takes and has performed in that slot before. Cano has failed everytime he’s been moved up in the lineup. He’s a great hitter no doubt. Its just that he’s only ever been a great hitter batting 7th or lower.
by JerseyGuy77 on Mar 16, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
that's what I think too
At some point, we’ll have to see if Cano is a middle-of-the-order guy, who just a good hitter who gets moved around a lot. I think back to Posada after the 1999 season – it was time to see if he could handle the catching job full-time, so the Yankees dumped Girardi and made Posada the catcher. (That’s one of the reasons I think Joba should be the fifth starter – they’ve groomed him for the rotation, now it’s time to see if he can handle the job.)
by long time listener on Mar 15, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Cano will do fine
Everyone take a deep breath. This is goingto be Cano’s year,
Prediction— Cano’s batting average 2010 will be>>>>>>>>>>> .351
YES SIR!
"My office is at Yankee stadium. Yes, dreams do come true."
Derek Jeter
If he OBP is .360…that kinda sucks.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 15, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's a moot point
Putting aside at-bats where he led off the inning (because, by definition, nobody is on base), A-Rod came to the plate with runners on about 67% of the time last season.
Now, substitute Johnny Damon’s .365 OBP with Nick Johnson’s .410 OBP and watch that number should increase to over 70%.
Because Jeter, Johnson, and Tex get on base so often, the pitcher isn’t going to have any choice but pitch to A-Rod.
Plan on success.
At this stage in spring training, Girardi is managing aspirationally. Cano is 27, coming off of his second best SL+OB year, and his best numbers for HR and Doubles. Why give him a premier batting position to lose? If he improves by 2%, say, he’ll have a great year.
Cano should be the #5 guy
I hope he gains some confidence/patience so he can make it work.
I’d rather see him be more selective and use his excellent eye/contact ability instead of swinging at everything.
Tough to say a dude like this may break out this year…but an Yanks fan will know, Robbie’s numbers don’t show the whole idea. Dude’s just scratching the surface.
Absolutely, Girardi…give Robbie the #5 and stick with him. Posada will be a revolving door, so I’d rather see him bat 6th ( I don’t think Jorge gives a crap..see ball hit ball is for Jorge)
Master of the squeegee
If anything,
I’d bat him third ahead of A-Rod and have Tex bat fifth.
Jeter
Grandy
Cano
A-Rod
Tex
Posada
Johnson
Swish
Gardy/Winn
Yes
Preferably I’d have Tex 3rd, Cano 6th and Johnson 7th. Why not? I’ve heard all the talk about him batting 2nd, I just don’t like it due to his sluggishness on the basepaths. Nothing wrong with having another high OBP guy at 7th. It’s not like this lineup is hurting. Wasn’t Swisher’s OBP fairly high?
Swisher's was .371 last year,
and it’s at .357 for his career. The fact that he had a decent (for him anyway) year as far as his avg. went was why Girardi batted him 2nd typically when Damon needed a day off. Girardi seems to put more faith in OBP than speed which is why I don’t think Granderson bats anywhere higher than 5th this year.
by Leviticus6688 on Mar 15, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Baserunning ability shouldn’t be overlooked…..but it shouldn’t be overvalued either.
Getting on base > running the bases well. It isn’t particularly close. Just because idiot managers have put fast, out-machines like Wily Tavares, Otis Nixon, Vince Coleman, or Juan Pierre in high lineup spots in the past doesn’t mean that it was right or made sense. And it certainly doesn’t mean we have to repeat those mistakes.
You want the top of your batting order to get on base – more than you want them to run fast, more than you want them to put the ball in play, more than you want them to do anything else. They get more at-bats than anybody else on the team, and they hit directly in front of what should be the teams two best power hitters.
A 1-2-3 of Jeter/Johnson/Tex means 55% of A-Rod’s at-bats will come with runners on base. Substitute Granderson in the #2 hole, and that percentage goes down. Giving A-Rod fewer at bats with runners on (instead of more) is not a recipe for winning games.
I would say that a slow guy with a .410 OBP probably equals a good baserunner with a .380 OBP. Anything less, it just doesn’t make sense.
^this.
Nick Johnson will be able to score more runs then ANYONE else in the 2 hole, save for Jeter, A-Rod and Tex.
Jetes is #1, A-Rod is #4, Tex is #3.
Where does dat leave NJ? #2 hole.
You can run around the bases if you aren’t on them.
On a double in Yankee stadium, if Grandy can score on it..so can NJ, cuz that means its in the gap.
Besides, Nick Johnson will be on 2nd anyway after Tex walks too.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 15, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Who else?
Sure, Granderson would probably be fine against RHP, but who do you send out against Lester and co.? Posada? He seems to be defying age for a couple of seasons now, and him saying he feels he can catch 100 games might be a sign that he’s slowly starting to break down. If Cano can hit in the 5 hole as good as he does with the bases empty, he’s going to have a 120 RBI season.
Remember, the guy had a career year last season, after coming off a very bad year. He knows how to make adjustments, and the work that Robbie is (probably) putting in might be the reason Girardi’s batting him 5th.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
I agree
IF Cano learns to hit w/RISP/on base. But he cannot continue to put up numbers like last year and be slotted behind A-Rod. And until Posada CAN’T do it, not just speculate about his eventual decline, he should bat fifth and DH there when not catching.
Cano/Posada split seems best at #5
Cano should handle the #5 spot in all circumstances except against tough lefty pitchers. Posada should bat #5 against tough lefties.
by YANKEES FOREVER on Mar 15, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
Posada
You have to think this is very forward thinking. I’m sure if cano starts out the season in the 5th spot I’m sure there is a backup plan(that being if cano struggles), most likely posada. Personally I would prefer posada at the 5 slot with cano behind him. My biggest question is how far into the season do we wait to see if cano works out in the 5 spot. The yanks are notoriously slow starters it could be mid may before we know if it is working out.
by Gmen78 on Mar 15, 2010 2:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Indeed,
I see this more of a temporary order than anything. Obviously, with injuries, slumps and the simple fact that years are so hard to predict cause lineup orders to change often. I see Cano starting the year 5th, but if Posada or Granderson starts to clearly outhit him, Girardi will switch it up.
by Leviticus6688 on Mar 15, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It's shocking to say it, but he actually fits the mold of a #3 hitter.
I say “shocking” because in my mind, a #3 hitter is like Teix, someone who can hit for power, average, and has great patience. It’s not hard to see which of these three categories Cano lacks in, but a #3 hitter also comes up most often in the lowest leverage situations (none on, 2 out). So if we go by the idea that Cano hits a great deal better in these situations as his career numbers have suggested, he might be better suited hitting there. Just an idea.
I'd like to see Posada at first
he’s a switch hitter- which is always a plus. He has proved that he can hit in the clutch, and hit with some pop from both sides of the plate.
Cano would be the better option if he could hit w/ RISP. He very well may do that this year. But he needs to prove that he can. If he’s batting 6th and he hits .300 w/ RISP, then I’m fine with him batting fifth if he can keep that up. But if you’re batting behind Alex, you need to be able to be clutch and drive runs in. Make them pay for walking him. And if Cano comes with another .200 season w/ RISP, then that won’t cut it.
No Cano-Do As The 5th Hitter!
I Don’t Think Cano Can Handdle The 5th Spot! He’ll Provide More Batting 6th Or His 7th
Especially Being A Switch Hitter. If Girardi Puts Cano Bhind Rodriguez, Than All Oppent
Pitchers Will Pitch Around Him,Unlike When Matsui Was In The LineUp The Past Yrs.. A Rods’ Batting Avg. Was Like Thru The Sky!. Girardi Needs Some1 Like N.Johnson,Some 1 That’s More Of A Threat!. Some1 Like Frank Thomas If He Didn’t Retire! Until They Get Some1 Like Him Then It’s Gonna Be Like A Trial & Very Error .SloPasada Should Be Hitting In The 7 Or 8th Spot [They’ll Still Have A Decent Switch Hitter Up If They’re Treathing],Yet He’s The Slowest Player On Any Team That I Heard Of Or Seen In The Last 5 yrs.
I Think Their [Yanks] Line Up Should Be: 1st) Granderson>CF
2nd) Jeter >SS
3rd) Texier >1B
4th)A Rod>3B
5th)N Johnson>DH
6th) (Slo)sada>C
7th) Winn>LF
8th)N.Swisher>RF
9th)R.Cano>2B
If Any1 Else CanCome Up w/ Other LineUp For Girardi,Then Please Let Him Know! Also
Their 5th Starter Should [If They Need 1] Gaudin Should Be It! Justin Chamberlin Should
BeThe 7th Inn Guy ,Hughes 8th & Of Course The Mo Man 9th. If They [Yanks] Have A Blow Out Game Than Giradi Should Give Hughes The Chance To Fill In For Mo, Like When He Took Over For Wettland Back In ’97.
by LongTimeYankFan on Mar 15, 2010 7:50 PM EDT reply actions
eyes pulsing Can’t read that crapppppp……….
by Vancouverguy on Mar 16, 2010 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Wish They Had HIs Problems.
It’s Been Said That All “Other” Managers Wished They Had Girardis’ Problems. The $ 1 Mill. Quests. For Joe :Are On Whom To Pitch 5th? & To Pitch 8th[ Chamberlin,Hughes. I’m Think Hughes Should ] LF & Now Who’ll Hit 5th. What Should Girardi Do?!. I’m Hop -ing,That My Last Line Up[Sugesttion] Is [Would] Be Close To What Girardi Have Come Opening Day. I Don’t Think Cano Should Hit 5th. LQQk At Hit Pct. During The Play-Offs He Didn’t Do So Good Even In The 8th Spot. He Should Stay There! Like I [ And Many Other Yanks Fans Have ]Said Earlier Joe Should Have More Of A Tuffer Stronger,Fear
LQQking Hitter Like Winn Or Johnson Hit ’Fter A Rod So Other Oppent Pitchers Have SomeThing T Think ’boutOn How To Pitch To Him. & Have Gaudin 5th Pitcher. Any Others Have Any Other Ideas On What He Should Do his Yr.
by LongTimeYankFan on Mar 15, 2010 9:10 PM EDT reply actions
why not Cervelli?
but really, cano should do fine, as longs as he hits with runners on and in scoring pos, if he does he could have 120+ RBIs.
"Now that you taste it, you just want to keep doing it again." - A-Rod on Winning the World Series.
by donnybaseball23 on Mar 15, 2010 10:01 PM EDT reply actions
I like Cano
I think the post makes a good point. Here are some interesting things to point out from 2009:
-His walk percentage is essentially the same wRISP or not (4-4.5%)
-His SO percentage jumps from around 9% up to 11% wRISP (not bad, really, considering the league average is 17.5%)
-His BABIP is .324 or, wRISP, .210!
There’s no way that you chalk 114 points of BABIP up to luck, but I would have a hard time believing that, with a league average of .300 for BABIP, Cano wasn’t just a little unlucky in 2009. I think this is something he can fix. He is certainly aware of it, and Kevin Long isn’t going to let him sit on this or else someone is dropping the ball.
I think this is Cano’s year. He’s going to learn to foul off those pitcher’s pitches wRISP.
Cano your roll
Robbie is not a kid anymore. His style is developed and there is no reason to try to force him to a completly different hitter. He needs to be in another spot where the kinks in his approach with RISP can get worked out slowly. Joe is probably blowing around more silly hot air.
Global domination, bizarre experiments on youth, our best player squatting in buildings drinking Bacardi, what you call the Evil Empire, I CALL HOME!!!!
by SteveBalboniHOF on Mar 15, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
If Cano is 5th
it’ll light a fire under Jorge’s ass and he’ll be solid trying to get noticed in order to take the #5 spot back from Robbie. Robbie in turn will want to stay there and “prove” he belongs there….I like Robbie on the bases for Jorge hitting rather than the slower Posada on base for Cano.
I wish we could continue to just show up and play for no reason. No umpires, no scorers. Just show up and have fun.
-- Alex Rodriguez
Posada 5th?
I’d only let Posada be the fifth in my golf foursome. Without a cart, it’d take him 8 hours to get around the course. Thanks Jorge, but you can no longer run, catch or throw; and you have started to lose your sight and swing.
by steelerwheeler on Mar 16, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Cano is Yanks best hitter
RISP and high-leverage situations are low AB stats, I.e. they don’t always translate like .310 over 3,000 ABs. Cano performed equally as well from the plate last year in the 5 hole as did Posada/Matsui…. and obviosuly far better after contact. BTW, he was only 26 and his “career” numbers are those of a guy who was learning to hit from age 21 to age 26, so just throw out those low RISP and High-leverage #‘s. We are not talking about a career minor leaguer or a guy with unrealized potential, we’re talking about a solid, established major league hitter coming into his prime and reaching his fill power potential. He has a great stick and is blossoming. All these other dudes are past or passing their prime and they protect each other. Cano has done it with Cabreraa, Gardners, Cervellis, Penas and the like batting behind him. I expect Cano to lead the team in BA, RBI also unless a-roid bats .250 and sets a GIDP record. Swisher replaces .150 Posada by mid-May to give Robbie a little protection, then watch out when he actually gets strikes to swing at. Robbie Cano is the best hitter the Yanks have brought up through the system since Donnie-Baseball…and he might be better.
it's worth the gamble
if Cano fails, drop him back in the order. HOWEVER, with Melky gone and being promoted to #5 in the lineup, maybe Robby will realize it’s grown up time now and step up to the next level of oh I’ve run out of cliches already in my second sentence.
But seriously, time to step up. Girardi is right, Cano needs to get real to justify the Yankees’ long-term investment in him.
On a side note, seems like Girardi thinks about as highly of Granderson as the team who was willing to pay a lot more to get senior citizen Damon to replace him.
Ill take my chances
w/ Cano at the 5 spot.. his reputation has been that he doesnt produce with risp… well, its not just reputation, its stats too. But there has to be a point in someone’s career where they progress as a player.
And Joe G is trying to coach him out of this.. its not far fetched to say that robby will have a breakout season. He is more than capable of producing w/ risp.. its a mental thing, and with all offseason and training to prepare him for it (rather than throwing him at the 5 spot during the season) he should be ready.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
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