Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera: The Best Yankees of All-Time?

Never forget how much Babe Ruth changed the game by hitting the ball out of the park, and how he rescued its popularity after the Black Sox scandal of 1919. (Much like the steroid area, although publicly, at least, confined to the White Sox). In the ‘20s, Ruth and Gehrig hit more home runs combined than other entire teams. The game turned from a bunting, stealing, spitballing, affair into the hitters’ era that was the 1930s.

Rivera’s success as a closer is most remarkable because of his longevity and number of playoff appearances. Other closers have had seasons with more saves, higher percentage of saves, and periods of unhittablity, but most flame out after 4 or 5 years. Rivera hasn’t revolutionized closing, he’s just done it through two different eras in a highly visible fashion. Don’t forget that Trevor Hoffman has more saves- he just has them for San Diego, where they don’t count for as much.

Derek Jeter is in the top 10 in almost every team offensive category. (Don’t forget that he’s easily the all-time Hit BY Pitch leader). Still, his numbers pale next to Ruth’s, who did a lot of his mashing in the dead ball era. Ruth also had to play in a number of ballparks where balls hit towards centerfield had to travel 450 feet or more to get out (although admittedly right fields were short porches in many of them). Still, he trails Babe Ruth in average, homers, and rbi, by a lot. Also, don’t forget that the Babe still holds many World Series pitching records. Jeter’s perfect- role model career and unquestionable hustle, intelligence, and dedication certainly put him on the all- consummate Yankee list, but no more so than DiMaggio in his day.

So, nice try, but no.

The average american of the 20s was malnourished compared to the average american today- 3 inches shorter and thirty pounds lighter. You can only look at how they stacked up against their contemporaries. Jimmy Foxx was known as “the beast” because of his build and strength, but he was 5’11" and about 200 lbs- totally unremarkable by today’s standards.

Also, as Mr. Ramey points out, pitchers in 20s typically spent a good part of their careers with what today would be recognized as muscle tears, tendinitis, frayed rotator cuffs,etc. that were undiagnosable and untreatable in the 20s. ARod and Jeter would have been monsters if they could bring their present physiques and games back to the 20s.

Jeter is the shortstop and Rivera is the closer on my all- time Yankee team, but their not the greatest ever.

We have no idea how Babe or Gehrig would do today. They didn’t play night games or games against African Americans. There were far fewer players so the worst players weren’t as bad as those today (except for the fact that African-Americans were excluded). There are so many differences that absolute intertemporal comparisons are meaningless.

So the only consistent measure is how did they perform against their peers. In that regard, there is no comparison to Babe Ruth. He hit more home runs than most teams throughout the 1920s. He changed the game of baseball singlehandedly. I love Mo and Jeter but there is no comparison to the Babe.

I believe although their numbers are not in the top 5 of all time Yanks, It would be almost criminal to ignore the fact that they have been ambassadors not only for the team but also for the league. They are clean cut people who have earned what they got and do so without trying to gain the limelight, but when they did, they were gracious and helped build the name of the Yanks, unlike Ruth. Greatest ever? Maybe, but greatest Yanks on and off the field? Undeniable.

No one was more beloved off the field or a better role model on it than Gehrig. DiMaggio was a close second. Bernie Williams (not as good a player) belongs in the same group. Yogi Berra has a reputation as being one of the nicest people who ever lived, both on and off the field- even his opponents liked him, and he’s a hall of famer.
Being clean cut is not really indicative of anything (see: Rose, Pete), but putting Jeter and Rivera above the all- time greats instead of with them is to forget or never to have known history.

Two great Yankees, two great winners. Jeter reminds me some of DiMaggio. I mean that in the sense of how he carries himself, not how he plays on the field. It would be nice to see Jeter finish in the top five in career hits, I think 4,000 would be a stretch,
he would have to play into his mid 40’s. Mo should also deservedly be a first ballot HOFamer.

How could you leave out The Flying Dutchman?

.327 BA
3415 Hits
722 SB
17 consecutive years of hitting .300 or better.
1736 Runs
1732 RBI
640 2b
232 3b
8 National League Batting Titles

HOF Class of 1936 (The First One, where he finished second in the balotting behind that Ty Cobb fellow, tied with some guy called Ruth and ahead another guy called Walter Johnson. A year when 43 of the 50 guys on the ballot were inducted and Cy Young came in 8th and Rogers Hornsby came in 9th! )

Did you see The Flying Dutchman play? Anybody can look at numbers, how do you evaluate players from the 19th century?

You’ll note that Jeter is the all time hits leader at short- Wagner played his last eight or so seasons at other positions. He also played in the 1930s, the greatest hitters era ever for batting averages. It’s not strictly a numbers game.

Even so, Wagner was done as a shortstop in his early 30s. (I think how many games he played at short was an issue when they were trying to figure out who had the record when Jeter was about to break it. The box scores available did not always have the positions of the players). You can kick the who’s better question around all you like without ever proving it either way.

That’s not hyperbole. While I agree they don’t match up to Ruth or Gehrig they are still Yankee Greats.