Thinking About Hoffman and Roster Construction

by jscape2000 on Feb 17, 2010 11:00 AM EST in New York Yankees Analysis

djoep2000 (no relation) has an interesting fan post up about Jamie Hoffman. While I wouldn't take Baseball Cubes, scouting scores as gospel because they compare the player to the leagues he's played the most in (inflating his hitting ability), djoe raises good points about the Yanks desire for Hoffman to make the team.

Consider first what happens if he's cut. The Yanks have to offer him back to the Dodgers they're sure to take him. It's a waste of both the cash and the first pick in the Rule V received for Brian Bruney. That may be the plan given how the FA market shook out. Maybe when he made the pick, Cash didn't think he could get a player of Randy Winn's caliber for $1.1M. It happened last year with Swisher and Nady when Tex signed. But for now, let's assume Cash made the pick hoping Hoffman will compete for the last spot on the roster.

If we assume 13 position players, that leaves 4 bench spots. Cervelli is one, an infielder (Pena, Ransom, Corona) is two, Winn is three. I don't see any way Gardner doesn't make the team, after the club has talked to Grand Central about shifting positions, though if that happened and the Yanks went with Granderson in CF and a 2 or 3 man platoon in left, that would change the dynamic.

That puts Hoffman in a battle with Thames. Hoffman has an uphill fight against Thames, and it may come down to what Girardi wants on his bench. Thames can hit, but Hoffman can field and run. If Gardner wins the LF job outright, it could make it easier on Hoffman because Winn's bat would always be on the bench and Joe G would want Hoffman's speed to pinch run for Posada/Johnson.

For me, I would pick Hoffman because Thames might accept a minor league deal, is 33 years old, and has only posted an OBP over .300 twice in the last 5 seasons. Thames might mash, but only when he makes contact. As djoe pointed out, Hoffman makes good contact, rarely striking out, walking a little and showing enough pop to survive at the big league level. He only steals at a 68% rate, so don't confuse him with Gardner or Granderson on the bases, but he can run. More importantly, he plays solid d at all 3 outfield spots.

We're finally done waiting. Now we get to see.

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Agree 100%

Based on your analysis Hoffman wins hands down over Thames. Thames to AAA & if someone gets hurt in OF then Thames is brought up to fill the void in the OF mix.

Defense & speed trumps occasional power. An OF mix of Granderson, Gardner, Swisher, Winn & Hoffman looks good to me.

by YANKEES FOREVER on Feb 17, 2010 11:38 AM EST reply actions

We may see a rotation of outfielders in the spring games:
Granderson, Gardner, & Swisher.
Gardner, Granderson & Swisher
Winn, Granderson & Swisher
Now use the same rotations with Hoffman in RF to backup Swisher.
Swisher was terrible at home last season. He maybe the one moved if Hoffman hits, not Gardner.

Having two CFs is a nice problem to have.

by dustproduction on Feb 17, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions

Best Situation would be

that Thames wins the LF field right job. Winn and Hoffman are the back ups. And Gardner goes back to AAA. Guys Garders in not as great as you want to think that he is. Guys that can steal bases and not hit are not that hard to find.

by imyrick on Feb 17, 2010 11:56 AM EST reply actions

Agreed that Gardner is not a guy who will have a long Yankee career- like Melky, GGBG offers a specific skill set that is only valuable while it remains cheap. Once he hits year 2 or 3 of arbitration, he should (and will be) traded.

But I disagree that Thames winning the LF job is the best situation.
He hits for power, but doesn’t make contact and doesn’t take pitches/walk. He has no speed and his defense is awful.

Could we meet in the middle and say Winn recapturing his 2008 form (.306/.365/.426, 10HR, 25SB-2CS) is the best situation?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Feb 17, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah I Agree

If Winn is able to regain form that would be great.

Gardner needs limited playing time to keep his trade value high. Because the more that he plays the more people are going to see that he is just another speed. And unfortunately you cant steal first. Plus he not even a guy that bunts alot. Which for a speed guy I think is a waste.

by imyrick on Feb 17, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions

Bunting

Is something he got away from in the minors because they wanted him to work on his hitting. I’ve read several reports that he’s been practicing. In one I remember he talked about the joy of having a pitching machine, because he could lay down 100 bunts in about 20 minutes of work.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Feb 17, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions

In order for him to be threat

in the batter box he has to learn to bunt and he has to learn to bunt well. The infielders have be in close because they are scared that he is going to drop one down. To give him more of a chance to shot one by someone.

Yeah I did read that the other day that he has been working in his bunting hopefully he is watching some tape of Juan Pierre when was so great at bunting.

by imyrick on Feb 17, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions

Yes

by david d on Feb 17, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions

Thams will end up being a negative contributor if he has to play LF

all year. There’s a reason he was given a minor league contract for < 1 mil and Winn was given a MLB contract worth 1.2.

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Feb 17, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions

If....

If they didn’t pick up Thames, who has proven he can LH pittching, and he does have pop
Maybe he makes the roster. They can always use Winn as a pinch runner/defensive replacement. He would have to make an unbelievable impression to stick, otherwise here is 25K for LA, and Mr. Hoffman goes back to Mannyworld.

by Great Gatsby on Feb 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST reply actions

Gardner should start in LF

I’d rather have him out there than anybody else on the team right now. Thames is an awful defender, slow, and has one skill- power. Hoffman has no major league experience (I would rather have had the Yankees keep Bruney and had him compete with the 5-6 other relievers for the final bullpen spot. Winn is old, and I don’t think he’ll get better. Maybe if he plays well he could platoon.

What about Greg Golson? He’s another guy who will have an opportunity to compete. If the Yankees want someone who specializes in speed and defense, that would be the way I go. Golson has Gardner type speed and is an excellent defender. After watching the role GGBG played off the bench last year, I wouldn’t want to lose that speed guy off the bench, because it was valuable. Thats why I’d go with Golson.

So GGBG starts in left field, and Pena, CERVELLI, Winn, and Golson are the backups. It’s a little thin hittingwise on the bench, but with this lineup, the need to pinch hit won’t be needed much.

by nyyrocks29 on Feb 17, 2010 7:30 PM EST reply actions

Gardner will bat ninth and play center

All season, 150 games minimum. No doubt. Maybe he’ll hit .260, maybe .290; but he will play great D and steal bags. He’s a perfect fit for the #9 hole…steal a bag and let Jeter move him over with a groundout to second base. Shouldn’t have too much trouble with lefties because he’s not trying to jack the ball.

Granderson will start in left and then be platooned with Winn by mid-May after going oh-for 50 against southpaws. He enters the game at the first sign of a righty, which means the Yanks will need Hoffman to come in and play D for Swisher. Thames to AAA.

Why is everyone so worried about Gardner’s lack of All-Star offensive production? Pitching, speed and defense win the close games (and post-season games). Not to mention those items are consistent, power comes when you don’t need it and goes when you do. Look for Granderson to mash 30 only against righties. Besides Gardner, everyone in that lineup has ridiculous OPS vs.righties, helping the Yanks to many 12-4 wins… I could play left vs. righties on this team, take my oh-for, misplay 2 balls a week and it would only cost the Yanks a couple of games. Right handers will post a .200 winning percentage vs. Yanks at the stadium this year. Sox should have gone out and got Wolf and Chapman… Oh, well, those who fail to make a plan to beat the Yanks plan to fail.

by steelerwheeler on Feb 18, 2010 2:01 PM EST reply actions

No Way

Gardner role is a back up outfielder and pinch runner. If you start him you take away from his value. I really wish that Garner was as great as some of you guys seem to think that he is because he would be in Detroit and the Yankees would still have AJAX. His value is a late inning defense guy. Because unless the game has changed since last year you can not steal first base. And Gardner is no threat to do anything at the plate including bunt. Yeah I know he has been working on that.

Lets just hope that we can find someone that will trade for this guy like IPK.

by imyrick on Feb 18, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions

No way

Granderson gets platooned.

by david d on Feb 18, 2010 2:20 PM EST reply actions

Yeah No way Ganderson gets benched for Gardner.

by imyrick on Feb 18, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions

Stay Hoffman

Who the Hell is Jamie Hoffman was a great post or should I say ‘article’. It definetly shed light on this guy. It got me to thinking seriously about keeping him but I doubt he would be into a AAA shuffle. Its too bad, because the farm could use someone like him after losing Shelley Duncan (wishing him the best!!) Thamas makes a great left-handed power threat as a PH, but I fail to see how he can help playing even semi-regularly. He would make a good NL guy. Sure CGrand can’t hit lefties, but is this guy the answer to spelling him? I also like Golson. It will be an interesting spring and even more interesting to see how Joe G. plays the cards and how they fall. We got spoiled by ridiculous offense last year but remember folks, A-Rod was out for some of it and the things didn’t actually come together till he got back. If he stays healthy and the infield hits like it did last year (and Posada), our Bombers might as well throw Golson, Hoffman, and bring back Mickey Rivers for a comeback stint.

'DIE MUTHF*@&#^!!!' - Roger Clemens, juiced up and rampaging, while throwing a broken bat head at Mike Piazza in 2000 W.S. (This is an actual quote, lol)

by SteveBalboniHOF on Feb 18, 2010 10:53 PM EST reply actions

Golson

Looks like a interesting player….He looks like he has some speed and pop to hit the ball out of the ball park. I would love to see him have a great spring training.

by imyrick on Feb 19, 2010 8:13 AM EST up reply actions

Stay Hoffman....

It got me to thinking seriously about keeping him but I doubt he would be into a AAA shuffle..

As a Rule V player/pickup, he can’t be returned to AAA. He has to stay on the 25 man roster, or returned to the original team, in this case LA (along with 25K)

by Great Gatsby on Feb 19, 2010 8:07 AM EST reply actions

I was thinking that, Gatsby

I was actually thinking this as I wrote it, but if Hoffman made the team and was on opening day roster, can’t they later on send him to the farm unless he would ‘deline an assignment’? Anyway, I doubt he would go for something like that.

by SteveBalboniHOF on Feb 19, 2010 10:30 AM EST reply actions