Steinbrenner and abuse of power
by Cbeck3 on Dec 24, 2010 11:03 AM EST
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PrintThe FBI has released George Steinbrenner's file.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5951156
redacted
This was not a nice man. He was tough, egotistical, self centered, rude and demanding. He made a good owner for the Yankees because he wanted to win and had the resources to make it happen. But he was involved in one of the darkest periods in American history.
redacted
George Steinbrenner was convicted of illegal contributions. Some of his money funded the kind of corruption of our electoral process that I think Nixon embodied. Baseball banned him, but in the kind of ineffective way they banned steroids. Everyone knew he still ran the Yanks.
Eventually, the Boss was pardoned by Reagan, readmitted to baseball. I did not bother to look up the chronology and dates. I know what I think. I think a man who did these things does not belong in the HOF.
By making the Yanks winners he made his family a fabulous amount of money. Look at the value of the franchise now, compared with what he paid for it. He was a good business man who made money from tickets, memorabilia, TV, Etc He understood that winning Yankees was good for business. It made money.
I hate the disproportionally large Monument to him that has been stuck into monument park. No way he is more important than Ruth, Gehrig, Etc.
I admit that all baseball owners have to be very rich. If you want to argue that you can't get that rich without being a lying crook, so all owners are bad, I'll just say maybe we should draw the line at felony convictions. Our country is just part of the world where the super rich enrich themselves by abusing the less powerful, because they can. Remember all this when you grossly overpay for your seats, parking, hot dog and beer.
Remember all this when you are tempted to gush over what a great guy the boss was.
I love the game, but it is run by bad, bad people. George Steinbrenner was just one of the worst.
Italic comments are edits by jscape2000 to keep this fanpost more about baseball. I know that things bleed together, especially when talking about money and power, but let's try to keep things as connected to baseball as possible.
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Acutally on Nixon
He did open up relations with China. Nixon also set in phase the Us withdraw plan from Vietnam, which eventually ended the Vietnam War quagmire. Also our economy grew under Nixon and he was one who help end the Gold standard i believe. Nixon additionally looked over a large scale desegregation of public schools. He also was pro-choice, altho he publicly stated, his wife was outspoken on the issue supporting Roe V. Wade. Off course Nixon did do a ton of illegal crap over he years, but like Steinbrenner, despite his flaws and actions…he did provide some good to the people that is often overlooked because people tend to focus in on negatives.
Nixon was a bum
Forced to peace by the desire of the majority. He made a huge mess of the economy. Look at his wage and price controls. Bad bad stuff.
There has been an effort to rehabilitate him, but I was there. I’m not buying it.
And this is really about Steinbrenner and the way the family treats their customers. Badly.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
by Cbeck3 on Dec 24, 2010 4:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Totally off base
Sorry, I can’t disagree more. Nixon had his flaws, but he was a good statesman.
There's always next year
Well i'm just basing this on things i've read and studied
since i’m too young to live through it. i’m not saying Nixon was anywhere close to a good president . But he did have his good parts and did something things that have resonated into positives for the growth of the country. same can be said of George’s action, where despite his indecent actions and shady moves, he did provide bases for the future growth of baseball and yankees. And lets not kid ourselves into thinking George/yankees are the only ones to serve overpriced food at sporting venues.
Gave a lot of illegal funding to Nixons '72 campaign.
"Kurt Smells Like Teen Spirit"
by Gelatin on Dec 25, 2010 1:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
And suspended again
for hiring a gambler to dig up dirt on Dave Winfield.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I don’t completely agree. Steinbrenner certainly was egotistical, the way he would call out his own players or threaten to fire coaches whenever there was a losing streak. There were a lot of good things he would do, though, that were overlooked. After firing coaches, he would keep them on payroll and set up their families for life, he gave a lot to the community. After he died, people were coming out of the woodwork saying how he would give so much to charity and how he would personally reach out to help people when he heard a tragic story about someone, but he always did it quietly, he kept his charity work out of the public eye. That is the act of someone who is sincere, someone just doing charity for praise would make sure everyone knew about it.
Russell Martin is just like the Jewish Pharisees, trying to keep Jesus down.
He was complex
And did some good. I just cannot forgive his flaws. Too me there is too much bad. I suspect that without the criminality I would have forgiven the boorishness.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
by Cbeck3 on Dec 24, 2010 10:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I always knew that stuff about him,
but I guess I never really thought about it that way. I think that the way he has helped the Yankees, he deserved that giant plaque in CF, but a spot in the HOF, no way.
Click...click...click...damn, out of new taglines.
I don't think that this is the place for this type of rant.
Just because you use the words “George Steinbrenner,” “baseball,” and “Hall of Fame,” you’re pretty much ranting about politics and power in America today.
Personally, I think that people deserve to be forgiven for past crimes if they ask for it (and from people who can actually give it). It is not for us to say that George didn’t deserve a pardon or forgiveness for his transgressions, only those against whom he transgressed, such as Dave Winfield.
You remind me of the HoF voter(s) that wouldn’t vote for Robbie Alomar because of the spitting incident even though the umpire is now a close friend and has forgiven him.
Leave the politics at home please, let’s just talk baseball or Yankees.
I took some of the politics out of it, but I do think there’s room to discuss George here.
I editted out a little of the politics background to keep the fanpost more ‘on target.’
So long as we can keep the discussion civil, we can confine the discussion to this post, and we can all try not to let modern politics get in the middle of our discussion, I think we can give it a try.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
understood
and there’s no problem discussing George Steinbrenner, as it was a common topic around the time of his death as well as the subject of a previous fanpost about his HoF chances.
I think there has been a lot of discussion
Of him in kind of sainthood terms. I think most of you are too young to remember him in his prime. I am not.
I did not mean to open current politics, and wish those remarks would be taken down. But I think George’s sin was amplified by the suspicion that he enabled the plumbers and watergate.
I think Alomar was different. George’s behavior was a lifelong pattern.
I was expecting irate defense of George. I feel this did need to be said for a while. The FBI file was the trigger.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
by Cbeck3 on Dec 26, 2010 9:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Couldn't Disagree More
It’s true that when Steinbrenner passed there wasn’t a lot of talk about the negative aspects of his character. This is true of practically every public figure who dies, including Nixon himself. In the days up to and around Nixon’s funeral the main subjects of discussion weren’t Watergate and Vietnam. When Ronald Reagan died, the media wasn’t focused on Iran Contra. That’s just how it works. When someone dies they are generally portrayed in a positive light.
In terms of the baseball hall of fame, it’s the Hall of FAME, not the hall of lovable characters. There are men enshrined in that institution who did things far worse than George Steinbrenner could even have imagined. There are racists, violent offenders, drug users. Cap Anson led the fight to segregate baseball. Ty Cobb is believed to have stabbed a man. To this point, the rule of thumb on character and the hall of fame has been “if you didn’t bet on baseball, you’re in.”
On his baseball accomplishments alone, Steinbrenner is absolutely a hall-of-famer. He purchased a struggling franchise for $10MM and turned it into the most valuable organization in American sports. He won seven championships during a 36-year stretch where the most anyone else won was three. He is arguably the most famous sports team owner in history. Regardless of what you think of him as a person, he clearly belongs in the baseball hall of fame.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Dec 26, 2010 11:27 AM EST reply actions
As I said in previous line
No HOF for George until:
Bonds
McGuire
Rose
etc.
I don’t agree "if you didn’t bet on baseball, you’re in."
We just made a major change in the way we awarded the Cy Young. I believe the HOF award has changed and I think today, we should not enshrine George.
Just my opinion. You are entitled to yours.
"I’m never really surprised, but I am thrilled sometimes." Joe G. 2010
I understand what you're saying
about the Cy Young, but that’s about actual performance on the field. In that same vein, George’s Hall of Fame consideration should be what he did for the NY Yankees and baseball, good or bad, and leave everything off the field out of consideration, much like the voters apparently did with numerous Hall of Famers who were not “good” people off the field, but they performed so well on the field, they were given the honor.
You are very right, George Steinbrenner does not belong in The Hall of Very Nice People who are Role Models. In fact, neither does Bary Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, or Pete Rose. However, what we’re talking about is the Baseball Hall of Fame, and what they contributed to baseball. Steinbrenner’s “scandals,” politics, and character are entirely irrelevant to this discussion.
Why do we all have this irrational idea that making money in sports should coincide with people being “role models for our children?” Why does there have to be the morality argument against people who have no incentive or commitment to meeting whatever personal standards of character are assigned to them by the masses?
George Steinbrenner has no reason to live by anyone else’s rules or adjust his behavior to fit your code of morals. However, whenever a sports figure shows any amount of independent values that do not coincide with the “classy, do gooder” cliches, they are branded as a bad person.
Personally, I wouldn’t vote for George to make the Hall of Fame, because his merits as an owner are very questionable. For every time that George’s micromanaging and money throwing helped the team, there was another time when it hurt them.
What I will say, however, is that if my perception of George is anywhere near the mark, he wouldn’t care at all about the criticism. He didn’t do what he did to appease anyone else or hide behind the moral high ground.
I don’t think George did much to help the build the Yankees that a smart business owner wouldn’t have done- and he made plenty of mistakes a smart business owner wouldn’t have made twice.
When George was involved (the 80s) was when the Yankees were their worst. Maybe the late 60s were terrible, too, and Geogre was a contrast to the CBS owned Yanks.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I agree. This is the reason I wouldn’t vote for him in the Hall of Fame, or give him a monument the size of Belgium in Monument Park, not any of the other stuff.
by Lord Duggan on Dec 26, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Well, he did
Pick up Reggie and Catfish and trade for Willie Randolph, got Torrez, Figgy, Gossage, Chambliss, Nettles, Dent, et al and built a team in the late 70’s, through trades and free agency, not at all different than the teams of the late 90’s, going to the series in ’76, ’77, and ’78, winning twice..
There's always next year
Steinbrenner was like his friend Nixon in a lot of ways- both were a very mixed bag.
Nixon was a paranoid who had an enemies list and used unlawful tactics to get after them, including FBI harassment, break-ins (Watergate and Daniel Ellsburg’s offices (look it up). He was an antiSemite. He authorized the unlawful invsion and bombings of Cambodia.
He also was responsible for geeting the US out of Vietnam, signed the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts, opned diplomatic channels to both Russia and China, and despite his antiSemitism, had Henry Kissinger as Secretary of State.
Can’t be more of a mixed bag than that.
Likewise Steinbrenner, for the all the reasons stated above. If the HOF is reserved for role models, then neither Nixon nor Steinbrenner stands a chance. If the Hall is for difference- makers, then they’re both no- brainers to get in.
by designatedquitter on Dec 27, 2010 1:41 PM EST reply actions
Good point
Nixon was a deeply flawed character, partly due to Eisenhower not backing in his ’60 campaign, and the loss of a close (and hotly debated) election to JFK. I wonder what his presidency would have been like if he won in ’60 rather than in ’68.
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