The Tools of Ignorance: Sunday News
by jscape2000 on Dec 19, 2010 9:48 AM EST
in New York Yankees News
Email
PrintThe dream is dead.
Zack Greinke is a Brewer.
Greinke brought back a significant haul:
Centerfielder Lorenzo Cain hit .306/.348/.415 as a late season call-up (117 wRC+) at age 24, while also posting positive defensive numbers in CF; for comparison, Gritty Gutty Brett Gardner is a couple years older and hit .277/.383/.379. Baseball America hasn't released its 2011 season ranking of Brewers prospects, but last year Cain was their #8- before going .299/.384/.425 in AAA.
Shortstop Alcides Escobar is a slick fielder with no stick (.288 OBP, 67 wRC+... yep, that number in the 200s is not his batting average, it's his on base percentage), who just completed his first year in the big league. I think Eduardo Nunez is a better prospect than Escobar at this point- Nunez outhit Escobar in each category (small sample size), and they're the same age. But Escobar has the cache of having been the Brewers' starter rather than the Yankees' backup, and the former #1 prospect in the system.
Righty starter Jake Odorizzi (2010's #9 Brewer prospect) blazed through A-ball, striking out 135 in 120 innings with a 1.15 WHIP. For comparison, Dellin Betances threw 80 innings between A+ and AA, striking out 108 while posting a 0.88 WHIP.
Righty reliever Jeremy Jeffress, who has twice been suspended for drug abuse (marijuana) and so is one positive test away from a lifetime ban, came back from his 100 game suspension with a fire in his belly. He pitched 32 innings in 24 minor league games (0.93 WHIP) before leaping from AA to MLB as a September call up. The Yankees have any number of pitchers in the bigs and the minors who can stand along side this kid.
In the coming days, I'm sure we'll hear plenty about why the Yankees didn't pursue Greinke harder (the mental thing, the money involved in getting him to waive his no-trade, saving the chips for a different deal), but know this- the Yankees could have offered a better package than the Royals got and still kept Jesus Montero.
That assumes that the Royals were willing to give Greinke to the Yanks for the same price as to ship him out of the American League- given the blowback of Greinke starting in KC in another uniform and the Royals' justified sensitivity to the history of Kansas City as a Yankee farm team, I don't think an equal offer would have brought Greinke to New York.
In a prescient article, friend of PA and Fanhouse writer Frankie Pilliere took a frank look at the Yankees' farm system, and he likes what he sees:
If for a moment we could pretend that they operated like a normal organization -- that the Yankees weren't the Yankees -- we'd be pointing to all the players from within that they could use to infuse talent into their big-league roster over the next few seasons.
Pilliere writes that in scouting Montero in 2010 in Scranton, Jesus showed "a lot of inconsistencies in [his] game behind the plate, but it was nothing that I don't see from time to time from mediocre defensive catchers at the major league level."
On the rotation, he writes: "The trio of Phil Hughes/Ian Kennedy/Joba Chamberlain in the rotation not so long ago didn't work out, but the truth is that two of those three are now solid big-league starters." While we could quibble about whether or not IPK would have survived the AL East, Pilliere's point is wondering whether, with the memory of the 2008 failure still fresh, will the organization give Betances, Banuelos and Brackman a fair shot, or will an expensive "safety net" (a la Russell Martin) be given the chance to hold back a youth movement with a higher ceiling?
As painful as it was to watch 2008, I loved seeing those three try to break in. When it comes to Martin, I think he's just a smart signing, especially if (as reports suggest) he can also play some 3B to help spell Arod. But I think Montero should make the team and get the lion's share of the games behind the plate (100-120).
For the young pitchers, the Yankees look to be out of realistic options to plug the holes in the rotation. At this point, it feels a little like January 2004 when Pettitte and Clemens took off for Houston and left Yankee fans wondering who they'd see starting. Unlike 2004, the Yankee farm system has developed enough to answer the call if given the chance.
159 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Yankees always have to pay a premium
No way they would have parted with 2 major leaguers + prospects for Greinke. Chances are Greinke will be a free agent in a couple of years or on the market again this year if the Brewers disappoint. The mental aspect of Greinke didn’t worry me as much as not knowing how he would preform again tough AL East lineups week after week. This really means that Montero isn’t going anywhere this offseason.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 19, 2010 10:01 AM EST reply actions
Peter Gammons of the MLB Network indicates (via Twitter) that a player to be named later, rather than Jeffress, may be heading to Kansas City. Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Twitter link) is hearing the same thing. Escobar, Cain, and Odorizzi would still be involved in the deal.
Interesting. If I’m the Brewers, I’m dying to get rid of Jeffress- his stock will never be higher.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Damn...
even if the Yanks offered those idential positional prospects (and sub Joba I guess in for Jeffress), it blows that out of the water.
Escobar is crap, Cain is not all that able, Ordozzi wouldn’t even be 4th best in our system and Jeffress unlike Phil Hughes actually gets caught for his gravity bong rips.
KC may not want to be our minor league team, but they’re doing a pretty awful job of building their team.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
nah
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Dec 19, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
With Lawrie gone as well
Goodbye Brewers farm system.
If I were you guys, I’d be happy you did make this deal. They gave up a lot. But Greinke will work out in the NL I think.
why is this demolishing their farm system?
they gave up their #8 and 9 prospects, a SS that makes Rey Ordonez look like A-Rod and a pothead.
They traded Lawrie for a solid middle of the rotation starter in Marcum.
If the Yanks made this deal for similar players I’d be doing my teabag dance all morning.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Dec 19, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Who else do they have? Again, I think its a bit. Maybe not too much, bit not with it for the Yankees.
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 19, 2010 10:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
seems like they still have 6 of their #1-#7 prospects, taking out for Lawrie I guess
I dunno who they are, but if you can get Zach Grienke and not give up your top 6-7 prospects? That is a steal.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Dec 19, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds like KC wanted this done quick and painless
They needed to move him and I’m guessing they wanted more from AL teams so they took the best NL deal out there so it didn’t drag out. Must be they didn’t want the possibility of Grienke pitching against them this year more than getting max value.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 19, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
That's because Dayton Moore wanted a SS and CF
So he went and looked for those, instead of the best talent. Damn him.
by pkyankeefan on Dec 19, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Nunez is ML ready, but Heathcott is not
And my initial point was that he didn’t get the top prospects in the Brewers’ system because he was focused on fulfilling a need on the ML roster, which doesn’t make sense because that team is just not competing in 2011. Might as well get the best talent you can in a trade.
That said, Nunez, Gardner and Joba should have been a decent enough package, if this deal got it done.
by pkyankeefan on Dec 19, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know who
will be their #1 prospect this year, but Escobar was #1 last year, and that doesn’t speak well for the rest of the farm, imo.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Escobar wasnt just ranked high in the Brewers system, he was ranked pretty high overall
While I dont think he is anything great, its still pretty early in his career.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Blue Jays were offering Drebek
I guess they were willing to take less to get him out of the AL
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 19, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
No.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Dec 19, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
No, Central is weak but Cinci and St. Louis are still better teams
They have to move Fielder sometime this year, and if they really stink Greinke will return to the market. I give their front office credit for being aggressive, but this is a team that must start strong. If not they will have fire sale by the dead line.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 19, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
see 2010 Mariners, re: Cliff Lee
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
while they didn't exactly "sell the farm"
they did give up a lot for basically a rental on a crap team. No way will the Brewers be able to realistically compete (it’s possible, but not likely). If they can’t resign Fielder, they probably won’t be able to resign Greinke either. So I’m not really sure why Greinke would want this, though now he knows he can hit the open market in a few years.
Sure seems like some sort of collusion is going on against the Yankees lately. Teams that we talk to (not necessarily this deal) seem to want the world for their guy only to end up trading for far less to another team. Lee last year…Halladay…
There's always next year
Aren't we glad they didn't make that trade though
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 19, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
we're the Yankees so they think we can give up this talent at the drop of the hat
Also the Royals thought we were desperate after the Lee deal. If the Yankees really wanted him they would have been able to make a better deal. Teams also use the Yankees as a selling point “hey the Yankees are in so what do you have to beat them?” It is a little ridiculous sometimes, but if we really cared enough we would figure something out
Teams know they will get blasted by their local press/fans for trading with the Yankees
I’m guessing KC fans remember the rivalry with the Yankees more than Yankee fans. Their front office knows there would have been big blow back if they traded Grienke to the Yankees for anything less than a haul. Another factor limiting the Yankees payroll advantage. Unless it’s a pure salary dump teams always demand more in trades from the Yankees.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 19, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah that's what they do
Just ask Arizona how well Casey Fossum for Schilling turned out? I saw Fossum pitching for AAA Syracuse last year throwing low 80s.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 19, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
maybe they think
they can’t trade to the Yankees because if their ultimate goal is to win the World Series (in the next two years) they can’t possibly trade him to the Yankees, I mean right? right?
Could be
But to get 4 or 5 top prospects for one guy? That’s not going to hinder a team from getting past the Yankees. I think sending him to another league altogether may be more the mindset. Sure won’t have as much a chance of “buyer’s remorse”.
There's always next year
It's just stupid
better prospects that can get help your team ALL THE TIME > one pitcher that you’ll maybe face three or four times a season. Also you won’t even be making the playoffs (because the Royals can’t make the playoffs in the next five years)
I think the Royals could make the playoffs in 3 years if things break right for them. They’ve got some great LH starters coming up through the minors. If the Twins and ChiSox regress just a little, the AL Central is up for grabs.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
yeah but they'd be relying too much on the fall of other teams
which is very much a reality, but still, it’s a lot to hope for. Barring a complete bomb out of the AL Central, the Royals will be in the basement for awhile still (maybe they’ll climb over Cleveland)
I hear you
But I think life in the AL East makes us feel that the divisions are more static than they really are. I know it does for me, so I try to remind myself how easy it really is for a team to go from the basement to the top and vice versa. Sometimes it’s a bubble (2007 Diamondbacks, 2009 Mariners), but it’s still a reality.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
true, true
but with the Tigers, White Sox and Twins all above mediocre, it’ll be tough for the Royals to make a dent. Barring the second coming of the 2010 Mariners/Angels The Royals would need to make an extra big push so all the more reason to get as much as you can if you have to trade your ace. I think if they traded with the Yankees the talent they would have gotten would have set them over the edge in a couple years when all their talent comes up. They would be pretty unstoppable with the likes of Montero, Betances/Banuelos Gardner and Joba on their team. It would be scary
There is no collusion
Really? Come on, David. Teams do not collude in trades. They take what will help their team the best. If they thought the Yankees would do that, Greinke would be in pinstripes.
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 19, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
If you think
teams aren’t averse to trading with the Yankees than with another team you’re fooling yourself. Just look at what the Jays and Mariners turned down compared with what they got in return.
There's always next year
As for the Lee deal
I think you are right, the Mariners did not want him going to the Yankees. But that is hardly collusion.
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 19, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
if teams are doing that they are just stupid, like the Mariners are.
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 19, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
But they didn’t get the best. We could’ve easily offered a better package than that without even including Montero. That’s our point. Back in the day we offered Phil Huhges, Melky Cabrera and others. While none of the others or Melky became much, Phil Hughes alone has been much more than anything they got from the Mets. The jury is still out on the other deal but we feel in the long run the Yankees could’ve easily given more but they willingly took less to keep the player away from the Yankees.
But we do not know
what the Yankees offered for certain, or if they offered at all. This is all assumptions.
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 19, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
You're right about this statement but wrong about the previous one
We don’t know that the Yankees actually offered a trade…but teams really don’t like trading with us for some reason. They expect more from the Yankees. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same happens with Boston to some extent…
boom
Never seemed to be problem, actually
It’s more free agency than trades for the Red Sox. They’ve made any trade they’ve wanted.
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 19, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Disagree.
Every trade discussion with the Sox – like the Yanks – starts with their best prospects. For example, the Twins wanted Lester and Ellsbury – for starters – for Santana, and then turned around and gave him to the Mets for Gomez and a pile of pistachios.
Maybe it’s because teams think they’ll eventually have to go through the Sox or Yanks to get a ring, so they’re hesitant to give us their top talent without bg returns.
Or maybe it’s a factor of the Sox and Yanks’ prospect-hype machine working too well.
Who knows. Either way, the Sox and Yanks consistently have to overpay in trades.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
Well duh. Teams always want top prospects for top players.
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 19, 2010 11:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
"Well duh."
Come on. You made a blanket statement (“[the Sox have] made any trade they’ve wanted”) without backing it up, and it just isn’t true. Virtually every trade rumor the Sox have been linked to for years have involved Buchholz, Lester or Kelly. Remember when the Sox tried to trade for Salty or Teagarden two years ago, and the Rangers would only do it for Buchholz? Or when the Braves were demanding Lester for a declining Andruw Jones? Or the Brewers wanting Buch or Lester for JJ Hardy? Or the Nats demanding Buch for Nick Johnson? Buch for Brian Fuentes?
In the lat five years, the only impact guys the Sox traded for are Bay and Martinez. Bay was a downgrade from Manny, forced by the circumstances. Victor Martinez was basically a salary dump – and an injury risk – and we still gave up Masterson and Hagadone (who at the time was our number 1 pitching prospect in the minors).
The point isn’t that “teams want top prospects for top players,” it’s that teams demand more out of the Yanks and Sox than they do from other teams.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
As in
“Theo would have to have no brain to make this trade” ?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I get that logic, but at the same time
Worry about improving your team, don’t worry about anyone else
One would think.
The Blue Jays turned down (according to one rumor) Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Felix Doubront, and Nick Hagadone – virtually every pitching prospect in the Sox system in 2009 – for Halladay, then a few months later accepted a much lesser package of Drabek, Taylor and d’Arnaud from the Phillies.
Maybe because it was within the division, but the Sox package blew the Phillies package out of the water.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
I mean within the division is something different
but with that package? I think I’d have to be stupid not to! But I guess it looks better in retrospect
The Yankees offer for Santana is pretty well documented. They had an offer in place and the Twins refused to take it unless the Yankees added IPK and they refused so they sent him to the Mets for way less.
Do you want Santana?
I’m sure the Mets would trade that contract in a heartbeat.
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 19, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
It's not collusion unless
other teams got together, discussed what the Yankees were offering, and made a concerted effort to avoid trading to the Yanks.
As I’ve said many times before, I think there are many intangibles that factor into these high profile trades that go beyond prospect rankings.
The last 4 major offeseason pitcher trades have resulted in the guy switching leagues: Santana AL>NL, Halladay AL>NL, Lee AL>NL then NL>AL, now Greinke AL>NL. It’s a big deal for the front office to avoid having the local hero return as an opponent, and it’s a big deal not to sent your guy to a team that’s already among the best in baseball.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
We were talking about the Lee deal at the deadline. They traded him to a division rival for less. WTF is that crap?
they thought the Rangers wouldn't be able to resign him
and then he’s be going anywhere, so they took the best deal they could (if you ignore Montero of course)
They took a good prospect away from Texas and added him to their team, and they assumed Texas would not be able to resign Lee. They won that deal in the end
Montero will be our savior in 2011.
That’s the one dude I would make a trade for. One “B” not named ManBan, one of our catchers, and Gardy or Joba.
There's always next year
Oh no doubt it’s just the Marlins have no intention of trading him and it’s going to take a haul to get him. The Marlins have been notoriously good at making big trades like those (with the exception of the Miguel Cabrera deal but in all fairness it looked like a good package back then the guys just flamed out).
SI.com’s Jon Heyman confirms the names, noting that the trade just requires physicals and Bud Selig’s approval, because of the money involved. Heyman adds that the Royals were close to an agreement with Washington, but Greinke told the team he wouldn’t accept a deal to the Nationals, who were on his no-trade list.
I don't blame him for not wanting Washington
Even with him and Worth they’re not beating Philly.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 19, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
but they have a better chance at winning than the Brewers
they’re just in a stronger division (and by stronger I mean the Phillies) But I guess he thinks he can wreck in the NL Central, which he can but maybe he’s scared haha
Hm
Washington probably had a better deal in place too with more ready talent.
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 19, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
What?
The Yankees could have matched this deal easily without giving up Montero. They may have even matched it without giving up him OR Joba.
Well I didn’t expect Greinke anyways. The Yanks still need another starter though. I think their next move rotation wise will all depend on Andy’s decision.
When the hell is he going to make a decision?
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Greinke to Brewers
Once again a team trades for less with someone other than the Yankees. Can’t believe we have to pay so much more than anyone else….
When the Royals make trades...
They always seem to put an emphasis on getting players who they can put in their starting lineup right away. The Brewers gave them 2 players who will start for them on opening day. The Yankees couldn’t offer them that. The only player the Yankees could have offered who gave them that would have been Montero, who they probably didn’t want to trade and who the Royals don’t really need since they have Wil Myers as their future catcher and Eric Hosmer as their future 1st baseman. Joba and Gardner are major league players, but they’ve been in the big leagues long enough where they aren’t under team control long enough for a team like the Royals.
Alcides Escobar had a terrible first full season, but Baseball America ranked him the 19th best prospect in baseball in 2009 and the 12th best in 2010. It’s silly to compare him to Eduardo Nunez. Nunez isn’t a prospect in anybody’s eyes but the Yankees. You can’t expect another team to see him as a valuable chip just because the Yankees claim he’s going to replace Jeter one day. Nobody buys that anyway.
That being said, I don’t really think the Yankees were in on Greinke. I would have taken a chance on him for anyone but Montero, but I think the team felt the risk was too great regardless of who they were giving up.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Dec 19, 2010 11:19 AM EST reply actions
I totally agree
I don’t agree with Moore’s approach to trades, though. Specially with a team that’s essentially a non-contender for a while. Like drafting, trading (for a non-contender) should be about getting the best player possible. The players they’ve gotten will probably be getting expensive when his supposed plan is nearing it’s conclusion.
by pkyankeefan on Dec 19, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
If you want
a .288 OBP starting at shortstop, I think the Yankees could have made that happen.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Oh well
He would never be able to pitch in a full stadium anyway.
Greinke cannot be pleased that Betancourt is following him to Milwaukee.
In other news...Dayton Moore is still an idiot
Only he can trade can trade an elite ace and still be convinced to ship along $2M in the offer.
Resign Andy & get Floyd or preferably Danks for Nova & low level prospects seems like the best trade option available to us now
What about an 8th inning set-up man? Soriano would be great but not at $10MM per year asking price… how about Fuentes or Frasor???
by YANKEES FOREVER on Dec 19, 2010 12:03 PM EST reply actions
I also want soriano but asking price is high and we need youth not saying 31 is too old but I think we need a long term set up man but soriano would be that. We got that guy from the mets but yeah he is nothing but a pure lefty stopper
by Kmillz2525 on Dec 19, 2010 12:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Brewers?
Now he definitely won’t have problems with his anxiety disorders, because he won’t win shit there either….
I think you guys are underestimating those prospects a bit. Lorenzo Cain will be a solid CF, he put up 1.2 WAR in just 43 games last year. Extended out to a full season, he could have been worth 4.5 wins. Not bad for a 24 year old rookie. He’s not as good as Gardner, but younger and with potential to improve.
Escobar is going to be better than a 67 wRC+. He might never be better than average on offense, but his defense is solid. If he can work on his throwing accuracy to cut down some of his errors, he will be a fine shortstop at the major league level.
Montero will be our savior in 2011.
As far as Gardner/Cain comparisons go
It’s interesting that Gardy has better plate discipline, but Cain has better contact skills and power. He’s younger too. So I hear what you’re saying.
I don’t know about Escobar though. How much better than 67 wRC+ do you have to get to be worthwhile? That OBP scares me.
by pkyankeefan on Dec 19, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve heard a lot about trading gardner but why? He is a solid young out fielder we can’t afford to trade him who else can we put out there? We need young guys we can’t put out another 30 year old in left we can’t get even older
by Kmillz2525 on Dec 19, 2010 12:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
we aren't doing that
The only way we could trade Gardner was if we could get Crawford. Now that he Crawford’s gone, we can’t really replace Gardner. The Yankees were never actually planning to, it was all just speculation
Exactly and see I would rather have gardner than crawford I just see a lot of hard years ahead for crawford and gardner is up and coming. I think we need to use him as our lead off hitter then jeter then tex then arod and then swish to have our most powerful line up
by Kmillz2525 on Dec 19, 2010 12:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Uh yeah my bad put him at 3 and move back the rest arod is a 5 hitter at this point to me and cano is a 3 with his high BA and Run producing power
by Kmillz2525 on Dec 19, 2010 1:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i'd keep him 5th if not try him 4th
though I would want to try Tex behind Arod, so maybe Cano in 3rd would work
Ok just think either gardner or granderson leading off with their speed then jeter hitting 300 ish hopefully and cano hitting 320 or higher with 20 or more dinger then alll our power starting up gives us a lot of runs
by Kmillz2525 on Dec 19, 2010 1:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Granderson should be 2nd, but so should Swisher
and then where does that leave Jeter. I’d prefer them switch it up for who’s hot and who matches up better instead of the static system they’ve had. It’s ok to switch people around if it can only help
I don't see Gardner improving
If he can at least match last season I’d be surprised.
There's always next year
How can he not get better he is young and would be better getting more at bats and another season under his belt
by Kmillz2525 on Dec 19, 2010 1:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He’s not that young, just a late bloomer. He performed way over his head last season, imo.
There's always next year
He’s a freaking cheeta either way he can lay a bunt down and get on base so I see his batting improving imo. I love the kid and we need thames back also to sure up the DH
by Kmillz2525 on Dec 19, 2010 1:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Totally agree
We’re looking for Gardner to maintain his performance as a best case scenario. If he was going to develop power, etc. it would’ve been some on some minor league level.
You look at doubles in the minors to guesstimate future power. That said, I don’t see him picking up much power soon, but power always is the last thing to come.
Montero will be our savior in 2011.
All right, thanks
What about his aging profile? Do you see him having the same 27-30 (?) peak as everyone else?
27-30 is the average peak for major league players. Some guys peak before that, and some later. Gardner was a late bloomer, so maybe his peak is yet to come, but who knows? He could certainly develop more power, guys commonly continue to develop power into their 30s.
Russell Martin is just like the Jewish Pharisees, trying to keep Jesus down.
His peripherals all suggest he did not perform over his head. His game is all about plate discipline and speed, neither of those two things are effected much by luck. If he had the same numbers with an AJAX level babip, I would agree, but his babip was actually slightly lower than the expected value, so he was actually slightly unlucky with his balls in play.
Montero will be our savior in 2011.
I don't want to trade him. I love the guy
But I’d do it for Greinke.
Hey no big deal ithink we do a bit of youth movement and try these prospects out and see what they got and I say we let montero play half and half btwn minors majors this season and see what we got. Maybe sign webb or some vet as a low risk possible come back player. We are fine with what we got I think
by Kmillz2525 on Dec 19, 2010 12:16 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Like this trade for the Brewers
Gallardo,Greinke and Marcum are going to be very good and with Braun and Fielder they should be able to scrape enough runs together to take a run at the division this year.
As for the Royals, I get they wanted to trade Greinke after he requested a trade but they still had over a month before spring training and could have shopped him around more getting better players in return, I hope it works out for them but they should have gotten more.
Zgonna b a loooooooong summer fellas
It doesn’t feel like #28 is coming anytime soon.
This is basically the same team as last year
Which was a pretty good team. If we had a little better performance from certain players we could have won last year. Of course everyone wants to see a team get better, but this team is still pretty strong. The biggest problem is the rotation, if we can find a solid guy or if the youth can rise up to the challenge we should be great. Lets not jump ship just yet…
Yeah, right, we're doomed
I’m actually totally satisfied with the lack of action this off season and I think we’ll be better for it. Hopefully this means we’ll actually get a chance to see a bunch of our prospects develop as Yankees.
There's always next year
Satisfied with lack of action...?
Are you kidding me? When our main competition has made quantum leap improvements “being satisfied” is a recipe for exactly what we will get in 2011.
I can’t understand your “total” faith in stagnancy when the world is passing us by. Unless Cash starts pulling some of the rabbits I hope he has hiding in his hat, enjoy the next three seasons “watching our prospects develop.”
PS – That’s what they do in Kansas City.
KC
doesn’t have A-Rod, Cano, Swisher, Tex, CC, Jeter, etc as a supporting cast. We’ll be fine.
There's always next year
Fine defined
I understand and agree “we’ll be fine” in the context of a good team dd. We have the horses to win alot more than we’ll lose. I was measuring us against what appears to be the mountain top moves of the Sox and Phillies however.
While I have little doubt we’ll win over 90 games. The current sitch leaves me with huge doubts about us competing with those rivals for #28.
Lets see what develops. I don’t think we should sit tight too long.
Its getting close to Pavano time,lol
I know how everybody feels about him, but I would give him a 2 year deal rather than watch Sergio Mitre be our 4th starter. I know it will never happen though.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Try out for a fifth starter
Nova vs. Brackman vs. ManBan (maybe) vs. Mitre vs. Joba (I wish) Vs. Prior (yeah right) someone will impress
i can be pissed at cashman for not even trying?
it’s one thing to get rejected but the fact he didn’t even try pisses me off. We could have kept montero and landed Grienke with quantity over quality it looks like. Great now we pin our hopes on a 38 year old injury prone Andy and no one else. This off season sucks.
they didn't want him, what do you want him to say?
were you upset that we “missed out” on Crawford too?
I’m annoyed they didn’t want him over the “mental concerns” when Greinke himself said he was fine with NY. i could give a rat’s ass about Crawford, i’m annoyed is that we need pitching and Cashman basically ignores the best pitcher on the market over some hyped up media exaggeration of his condition. I mean he barely pursued Greinke and in the end the yanks probably could have given up a better haul w/o montero.
Maybe they just didn't want to part with anyone for him
or they knew the Royals wouldn’t go down for them. Maybe they think someone can step up and they can get good performance without having ot give up anyone. There’s a plan, Cashman isn’t just sitting on his hands.
As long as AP returns
this will essentially be the same team as 2010, which won 95 games and went to Game 6 of the ALCS (no Vazquez or Thames, but with Montero and Martin).
At this point, why not let a rookie have the fifth spot, be it Nova, Joba, Phelps, Noesi, DJ Mitchell, Warren, Betances, ManBan, etc. or a combination of them? We’ll learn about them, they’ll learn to face MLers, and it would help in the long run.
wow. only four prospects?
does this sound familiar?
At 27, Haren has won 43 games the past three seasons and has two years remaining on his contract with a club option for 2010. He is due salaries of $4 million in 2008 and $5.5 million in 2009. The 2010 option is for $6.75 million with a $250,000 buyout — quite a bargain these days for a pitcher with his pedigree.
Greinke is 27, and has two years remaining on his contract, granted about $10 or $11 million more.
This is surprising to me. Haren got 6 prospects, and one of them is already a star in Carlos Gonzalez. Greinke only getting 4, at the same age as Haren was when he was dealt, it very surprising to me.
I believe in the Church of Baseball
Free FreeBradshaw!
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 19, 2010 5:51 PM EST reply actions
I think a lot of people are skeptical about how good Greinke really is. It’s clear that he isn’t really as good as his 2009, but how much better than his 2010 is he? Haren had been more consistent before his trade without any peripherals screaming that he was a huge fluke, unlike Greinke in 2009 (not a fluke, but certainly not a sustainable performance level).
Russell Martin is just like the Jewish Pharisees, trying to keep Jesus down.
jscape pointed out
that greinke’s 2010 peripherals were in line with CC’s. so why would people be skeptical?
I believe in the Church of Baseball
Free FreeBradshaw!
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 20, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
They were not. They had similar FIP, but FIP doesn’t take batted ball types into account and is context neutral. tERA adjusts FIP for batted ball types, and CC edges out Greinke in that stat, although it is still close.
The differences between your tERA and ERA can be explained by the level of your defense behind you and by your context inclusive performance. If I walk a batter with two out and no one on base, my tERA rises slightly but my ERA does not. If I walk a batter with the bases loaded my tERA rises by the same amount, but now my ERA rises too.
The Yankees had an average defense, but CC out-performed his tERA by .24, so he pitched better when men were on base. Greinke under-performed his tERA by .66 points. Some of that is because of his poor defense behind him, but not all of it. As CC was slightly better with men on, Greinke was slightly worse. Even if I say the Royals defense was responsible for about half a run on Greinke’s ERA, there is still almost half a run difference between him and CC.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Greinke is good and will do very well in the NL central, but it annoys me when people say he was just as good as CC last year because they had similar FIP when that stat is not the end-all be-all stat like wRC+ is, out when people point to his 2009 season as his true talent level without looking at things like his ridiculously low home run rates.
Russell Martin is just like the Jewish Pharisees, trying to keep Jesus down.
It was more than just FIP, but you seem to overlook that.
Being comparable or similar doesn’t mean identical. Their numbers were comparable.
And if you forget our names, just tell them we were Yankees
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Dec 20, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Pinstripe Alley
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
