Analyzing Joel Sherman's Post On The Catching Situation
Jorge is done, Jesus has come, Francisco is in trouble, and Romine is closer to getting an MLB spot than we think. This is the thesis of Joel Sherman's #3. in his 3 UP column today. I may not agree with Joel on a number of subjects, but he is very reliable for getting things right with the way the Yankees do their business. Joel was responsible for all of the scoops involving the Lee non-trade and trade to the Mariners, so I'll believe him on this.
Let's take a look:
The chase of Lee also has something to do with the Yankees' decision to try to go with two young catchers next year from among Jesus Montero, Francisco Cervelli and Austin Romine.
This is the first I have heard of Romine getting a chance at making the MLB club this season.
So one area the team can save is by adding two near minimum wage catchers to the payroll. When I asked several Yankee officials about chasing a free agent such as John Buck, they put it at extremely doubtful because 1) They don't see how it fits into the budget. 2) They want to give a real chance for their young catching to emege in 2011 and having a veteran present would likely move the clubhouse and the manager to go with the sure thing to begin the season.
It's very odd to think that the Yankees have a budget, but they do, apparently. The Yankees will let a team like the Red Sawx go after Buck, while they have three home grown catchers start the season in the majors, along with Jorge Posada.
While I think it would be a good idea to sign a Jose Molina type player, one that is great defensively, but won't hit enough to create a dilemma for Girardi, the Yankees likely won't go that route. If anything, they will sign the great Chad Moeller.
The Yankees, for example, want Montero to win this job. But he will play at 21 and -- at best -- has a lot of rough defensive edges. Last year it took him half a season as among the youngest players in the International League to gain comfort and shine at Triple-A. So the same growing pains should be expected in the majors, at the least. Will the Yankees tolerate such growing pains when they have championship aspirations?
If the Yankees want Montero to win the job and stick with the job so much, why would they give him so little time to prove himself? Montero got off to a slow start in AAA, but finished with an outstanding season. If the Yankees quit on him after a Teixeira patch (slow start to the season) they are quitting on the possible improvements that he can make.
The Yankees have some strong reports, including from Stick Michael, that Montero has grown to the point of at least being an average catcher. But it is hard to find similar sentiment outside the organization. One AL executive said this, "He is not a catcher. No way. We have him as a first baseman/DH, but as an impact first baseman/DH because of the bat."
If the Yankees have Posada as their permanant DH, they still will have to rest him sometimes. If the haters say Montero isn't a good enough catcher, and are right, the Yankees can deal with it and put Montero at DH every once in a while. The Yankees have some top notch scouting, and many prominent scouts in the business are saying that Montero's defensive is a work in progress, but it is improving. Give him a chance to shine defensively as well as offensively.
There also is constant worry about Montero's weight and attitude. Which is why the Yankees are very specifically saying this is a competition in spring. The last thing they want to do is let Montero feel comfortable all winter and/or heading into spring training. They want him working all winter to get into shape and fighting all spring to prove he is major league ready.
This is good, this is very good. Whether Montero actually believes that it isn't his job to lose or not, make him think he has to work for it. Force him to improve, wherever he can.
But what happens if he doesn't? And if Romine is still a year away? And the Yankees continue to think worse and worse about Cervelli, who had a lot of the organization go negative on him last year because of a belief that he had grown comfortable being in the majors and was not working as hard in his relationship with pitchers or his overall game?
Spring Training isn't necessarily foreshadowing the regular season. Unless he comes into camp and doesn't work, or he comes into camp and barely hits at all, give him the job. Give him a big chance to prove himself, and if not, prepare for the worst. The worst is likely a Posada/Cervelli combination like last season.
Still with the tenuous nature of trying to entrust such a vital position to neophytes would anyone be surprised if Posada actually ended up catching the most games for the 2011 Yankees?
Yes, Joel, I would be. If Montero doesn't work out, it will likely be Cervelli getting the most starts (gasp!) while Posada DH's.
Update by Travis - another good article on the catching situation.
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Joel Sherman's reporting this?
I guess it either means Montero is actually being demoted to rookie ball, or being traded for Gil Meche
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Can't wait for Baby Jesus next season
I agree, they need to make sure he works hard to improve his game, particularly his defensive side. If he can just be an average catcher next year who throws out 24 percent and is decent at blocking, thats fine with me as long as he hits as advertised.
I think the Yankees need to be patient with him. I won’t be surprised at all if he struggles to start the season. In fact, I’ll be surprised if he gets hot right away. It takes a while to adjust to major league pitching. If the Yankees are serious about this kid being the future catcher, then they need to be patient with him and give him a chance to prove himself.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Seriously doubt Romine sees any time on the Yankees next year outside of a token cup of coffee in September
They’re not going to bring him up to ride the pine when he could be starting in Scranton. He still needs a lot of work on his catching too.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
I agree here, but I’m surprised his name was mentioned in the competition. I think unless he performs in an unbelievable fashion, he’s nothing more than a way to make Cervelli work harder for now.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Big Yankees and NY Rangers fan!
R.I.P. Freddy 'Sez', Bob Sheppard, George Steinbrenner
I'm wagering Sherman brougth up his name
to show off the fact that he knows another prospect’s name besides Montero.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Nov 11, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I remember watching Romine
last Spring and I thought he was fantastic. He may not make the team next season, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he turns out to be a better catcher than Montero and hits pretty well too.
There's always next year
Romine is “competing” in the same way that Chad Gaudin was competing for the 5th starter spot last spring training. Except that the reason he won’t win is because he’s not ready, not because he’s a colossus of failure.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
He was so bad, that when Jeff Passan listed the top 164 free agents, he didn’t make the list. Chad Moeller did.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Big Yankees and NY Rangers fan!
R.I.P. Freddy 'Sez', Bob Sheppard, George Steinbrenner
Why would he, he isnt a free agent
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Big Yankees and NY Rangers fan!
R.I.P. Freddy 'Sez', Bob Sheppard, George Steinbrenner
Romine is a free agent?
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Nov 11, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
I was talking about Gaudin.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Big Yankees and NY Rangers fan!
R.I.P. Freddy 'Sez', Bob Sheppard, George Steinbrenner
Oh, alright you are forgiven,lol
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Nov 11, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
we should be afraid
of what will happen if/when Jesus struggles at the beginning. the idiots like Francesa will turn on him if he as bad week or month. the fans out there need to realize it took him three months in AAA before he adjusted. i just hope the team and fans have patience.
PS: I still believe in Frankie Cervelli (at least his D). he was Burnett’s primary catcher this year. that can make a lot of catchers look bad.
It should be noted that Montero had an absolutely tiny BABIP in the first few months of the season. He then demonstrated the power of regression to the mean by being a freak the whole second half.
But yes, I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t have enough growing pains to get the Francesa types wagonning all over the place. Hopefully the organization knows enough to stick with him.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
true
Burnett is god awful (no pun intended) at holding on runners so naturally Cervelli had a hard time.
Thats something that AJ should work on this offseason. Holding on baserunners.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Installing Montero as the 2011 starting catcher is about as big a no-brainer as they come. I know you have to create the apperance of a competition in spring training to placate the fans and media, but this is the way it should be.
The Yankees need not compare his catching ability to some theoretical ideal; right now they only need to compare it to the abilities of those who filled the role last season. And one word comes to mind when describe the defense the Yankees got from their catchers in 2010:
BARF
Posada, Cervelli, and 40 innings of Chad Moeller were "good: for -2.1 WAR of defense behind the plate.
Can Montero really be worse than that? If for no other reason than the fact that he’s half Posada’s age, my guess would be no.
here's the part that disturbs me
“[H]aving a veteran present would likely move the clubhouse and the manager to go with the sure thing to begin the season.”
Really? They don’t trust Girardi to get with the program and give their young catcher a chance to develop? They think he’ll be short-sighted way and use Buck (or whoever) just because that guy is a veteran?
by long time listener on Nov 11, 2010 5:07 PM EST reply actions
That's not disturbing
Chad Gaudin pitched in 9 games last September with the AL East crown on the line. 3 times, he entered with the score tied; in those 2.2 IP, he allowed 5 hits, 2 BB and the Yankees went 0-3.
I understand players have bad weeks, and that Chad Gaudin (being Not Good at Baseball) has more bad weeks than average.
It’s up to the manager to be smarter than that. On the other hand, it’s up to the front office to identify what the manager is bad at, and do everything necessary to correct or work around that weakness.
Our manager has a weakness, but the front office is working around it.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
when you put it like that, it doesn't sound so bad
But you think about what they’re saying – that the front office can’t a player who offers something a little different than our current options for fear the manager will overvalue that “something different” to the detriment of the team – it sounds terrible.
by long time listener on Nov 11, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Patience is the key with Montero
If Montero wins the starting catcher job out of ST, keep him in there unless he proves he can’t handle it. This means a minimum 3 month probation not one week.
Good move with Posada to DH… he really can’t handle the starting catcher role effectively anymore.
Romine or Cervelli??? Let spring training performance decide
by YANKEES FOREVER on Nov 11, 2010 5:13 PM EST reply actions
Personally, here's my prediction:
Jesus as starting catcher, occasional DH
Jorge as starting DH, occasional catcher
Cervelli as backup catcher
Playing time: 4:2:1
Romine: AAA starting catcher or (maybe) tradebait
+1 with one caveat
Montero will start but be more than an occasional DH early on, to allow him to settle in. After the All Star break expect more innings from Montero but for the first month or two at least, Posada will catch a bit.
After Posada and Montero the third catcher has to be able to play defense and throw people out.
It will be Cervelli or Romine or a FA but that will be the criteria.
(And I think if it is a push, tthe tendency will be to put Romine back in AAA to develop further)
Cervelli
He’s fine as a backup, and plus Romine needs more time to develop in AAA. I’d rather have him starting in AAA than backing up Montero in the majors.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
at the risk of inviting a worldwide flood
Cervelli isn’t “fine” as the backup. I think we’ve seen the limits of his offensive abilities, and that was with a super-hot May. And his defense was frankly no better than Posada’s. He may be a slightly better option in 2011 than Romine, but it’s time to accept that we won’t have God and Jesus on the same team for very long.
by long time listener on Nov 11, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
There are 3 possible narratives for Cervelli.
1) He’s neither as good as his May, nor as bad as his July, but those were streaks that are a natural part of baseball.
2) He got too comfortable on the MLB roster and wasn’t working hard enough (I’ve heard reports of Yankee brass whispering this).
3) He felt great in May while he was batting .400 and could do no wrong. When the hits stopped falling, he took his troubles with him into the field- pressed too hard and made errors some times, but zoned out at other times.
I’m not sure what I believe.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I hope it's No. 1
But even if it is, I don’t see Cervelli being a long-term option.
by long time listener on Nov 11, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
You know what the real problem is?
He’s not Italian. He has an Italian name, and looks Italian, but he’s not actually Italian.
He's of Italian descent
He also played for team Italy in WBC. I still think he is a Triple A catcher at best. Im hoping he isnt the starter or backup next season.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Nov 11, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
His dad is actually fresh off the boat Italian
but he went to Venezuela instead of Ellis Island
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I don't have a problem with Cervelli backing up
He’s a backup catcher. They don’t need to be All-Stars. Cervelli hits enough for a backup catcher. I’d like him to be better on defense next year and I think he will be. All he needs to do is hit a little, play solid defense, and make certain pitchers (AJ) feel as comfortable as possible. I honestly don’t think thats out of the realm of possibility for him.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
we can live with Cervelli until late May/early June
and then the rise of Montero!
Or we can start the rise of Montero on opening day
Move Posada to DH, and live with Cervelli as the backup/Burnett’s personal catcher.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
Bringing up Montero is June
prolongs the Yankees team control of him.
by Lolmoarpl0x on Nov 11, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
we'll end up paying him anyways if he's as good as advertised
And we’re the New York Yankees, not the poor small market Tampa Bay Rays. Who gives a crap about an extra year of team control? Believe me, if he’s any good he’ll be under team control for a LONG time.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot."- Kobe Bryant
we're the F'ing Yankees
not the Marlins. An extra year of team control means nothing, they’ll probably give him a contract at 23-24 that takes him well past that anyway, if he’s the monster that we think he’ll be.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I had
never heard anything along the lines of the organization feeling Cervelli had begun to feel too comfortable with being in the majors, and thus didn’t work to improve, but the difference between him in April and May compared to the rest of the year was so drastic that it’s actually a sound conclusion. Nobody, not even Jeter, declined so rapidly from late-May onward, and since he played a lot his decline had an effect on the team. He hit .271 with a .359 OBP and hit .316 and .381 respectively with RISP and RISP with two out. Those stats don’t reflect consistency though. 80% of that came from his play from April and May. His stats were SO ridiculously good at one point (.320 BA and .388 OBP at the end of May, along with 23 rbi ) that his final totals were a disappointment. I realize the guy is young but the idea that he should start to think he’s got it all figured out and lose humility really ticks me off. If I’d been a teamate of his and noticed this I’d have been incapable of not slapping him senseless.

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