Only Andre
Dawson was the only player elected to the Hall.
I'll post the percentages when I see them.
Robby Alomar, Tim Raines and Bert Blyleven should be pissed.
Blyleven missed by 5 votes, Alomar by 8.
Via LoHud
Andre Dawson — 420 — 77.9%
Bert Blyleven – 400 – 74.2%
Roberto Alomar – 397 — 73.7%
Jack Morris – 282 – 52.3%
Barry Larkin – 278 – 51.6%
Lee Smith – 255 – 47.3%
Edgar Martinez – 195 — 36.2%
Tim Raines – 164 – 30.4%
Mark McGwire – 128 — 23.7%
Alan Trammell — 121 – 22.4%
Fred McGriff — 116 – 21.5%
Don Mattingly — 87 – 16.1%
Dave Parker – 82 – 15.2%
Dale Murphy — 63 – 11.7%
Harold Baines — 33 – 6.1%
Andres Galarraga – 22 – 4.1%
Robin Ventura — 7 – 1.3%
Ellis Burks — 2 – 0.4%
Eric Karros — 2 — 0.4%
Kevin Appier — 1 – 0.2%
Pat Hentgen — 1 – 0.2%
David Segui — 1 – 0.2%
about 2 years ago
jscape2000
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If they are suddenly going to revise their standards for what makes a player "great"
the HOF should retroactively “unadmit” players who no longer meet those standards.
Really it shouldn’t matter, since our opinions on who belongs in some “pantheon of greats” are no less valid than the BBWA (possibly more valid), but for some reason Cooperstown gets to be extra-meaningful.
That is a roundabout way of saying...
…that many of the players on that ballot are objectively better than many of the current HOFs, so it makes no sense that this wouldn’t be an up or down vote.
by PortlandYankee on Jan 6, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Once again the BBWA is on drugs!
Alomar was the best 2nd Basemen I ever saw and a no-doubt 1st ballot guy. The whole spitting thing was 13 years ago, boy those writers can hold grudges!
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Jan 6, 2010 2:34 PM EST reply actions
And the umpire has very publicly forgiven him
And said the incident should not affect his Hall candidacy.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
He didn’t (quite) get to 3000 hits.
For some, that’s very important.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Jscape,
one thing that’s bugged me about the HOF voting has been an overemphasis on some very trite numbers. I’ve felt like many writers are so fixated on those milestone numbers that they can’t grasp the totality of who those players really were, and how they stacked up with the other players of their era. It just seems like in many ways, the HOF has kinda become the Hall of 3000 hits or 300 victories, and it bugs me. IMHO the HOF should be more than that. The milestone numbers used that way are nothing more than a crutch.
Add to that the fact that some players look at that landscape and themselves become fixated on reaching a milestone… they see it as their ticket to Cooperstown. It’s not about their team, or their drive, or their leadership, or anything else… instead, it’s only about that guy hitting the magic number of home runs or getting the requisite number of hits, or whatever, to punch their ticket to the HOF. And the writers reward them for it.
BBWA is a joke
First of all…Andre Dawson? I mean really? Someone explain to me how that guy is a hall of fame player. He’s a corner outfielder with an .806 career OPS. He slugged over .500 4 times in 21 years. He drove in 100 runs 4 times and scored 100 twice. He had an OPS over .900 once.
Bert Blyleven not being in is wrong, but that’s been going on for a whie. Alomar and Larkin were both the best players at their position of their eras. I’m sure they will both get in eventually, but this whole “first ballot” thing is ridiculous. How does a writer justify not voting for someone one year and then voting for them five years later? Did they get better during that time? I think if you don’t vote for someone one year and then vote for them the next, you should lose your vote. The BBWA is a bunch of hypocritical, egomaniacal, holier than thou old geezers who have no clue about baseball.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 6, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t believe in not voting for someone one year you’d be willing to pick the next year.
But I think the writer’s self education process takes time to build, even if sometimes builds into an echo chamber. At least for the Hall, they get it right it more often than they miss it.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Dawson is a 5 tool player
He could hit for power, run & play excellent defense (Gold Glove every year from 80-88), not to mention had a cannon of an arm. He played in Montreal on artificial turf which took a toll on his knees. He was still productive in his later years. He won RoY & an MVP in 87.
438 HRs & 319 SBs is pretty damn HoF worthy to me.
Don't you remember
The hair on the back of your neck standing up when Rice would bat against a Yankee pitcher with men on base? He was a scary, scary guy for several years. Granted, he was a bad LF with a prickly personality, but with a bat in his hand he was as tough an RBI man in the league for about 8 or 9 years.
Not really.
Rice never bothered me… he was a good hitter in his day, yes, but he bothered me about as much as any number of other good hitters. Did he scare me? Honestly, not so much.
The guy who DID scare me was George Brett. Seemed like Brett would always hurt us in a critical at-bat.
Ken Griffey Jr. in the mid-1990s scared the heck out of me, too.
Granted that
Brett was the best left handed combination of power and average in the late 70’s, but name a better American League right handed hitter (power and average) from 1975 -1984? Maybe Hal McRae for batting average, but nobody in the league was a better right handed hitter for that ten year period.
Full ballot percentages are up
I am shocked by how low Edgar Martinez is. We need to get him on the Jim Rice “most feared hitter” program.
Also, while I’m indifferent to Alan Trammell, how does he only get 22% while Barry Larkin gets over 50% support?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
RAB has started a Bernie "Fear" Williams movement.
Due to the fact that he has more IBB’s than Rice and ergo must have been more feared.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
Trammell's low showing
Whitaker got knocked off on the first ballot and while I’m not sure he’s a hall of famer (much like Trammell) he definitely got the shaft. I’m surprised Edgar is so low as well. If you are around or above 40% on your first ballot your chance of getting in is good (good news for Alomar and Larkin). Raines climbed from last year but still has a long way to go.
One wonders how Trammell would have done if he’d won the MVP award in 1987 like he deserved (instead of finishing second to George Bell).
Too bad the HOF doesn't have any combo deals.
Trammell and Whitaker individually were good and in some years very good to great… but the combination was fantastic! They were arguably one of the best double play combos of all-time when one considers the combination of offense and defense, plus the crazy extreme longevity of the combo. How long did they anchor the Tigers infield… 17 years or something? I was always a Yankee fan but you couldn’t help admiring those guys, and even secretly wish they were on our team.
I’m no super genius BBWAA member, but IMHO Trammell and Whitaker belong in the HOF together.
And the cheapening of the HOF continues
Andre Dawson? Are you fucking kidding me?
I guess they’ll just let anybody in now.
http://newyorksportsjerk.blogspot.com/
by New York Sports Jerk on Jan 6, 2010 3:34 PM EST reply actions
What is the percentage you need to stay on the ballot?
Is Donnie Baseball still in or not? (It’s not like he is getting in, but still)
he's still on
you require 10% to stay on the ballet, so anyone from Dale Murphy up is still on the ballet.
Maybe McQuire will have a chance
if he actually comes out and he holds a press conference and tells the truth, instead of his hiding. He’s hitting coach for the Cards now. He can’t hide forever. Come out and talk, Big Mac, instead of hiding, and then you may get more than 23% a year.
The only thing that bothers me,
is Mattingly isn’t in, whereas Kirby Puckett was a first ballot HOF’er.
Mattingly
AB’s – 7,003; Avg – .307; Runs – 1,007; Hits – 2,153; 2B – 442; HRs – 222; RBIs – 1,099; BB – 588; Ks – 444; OBP – .358; SLG – .471
Puckett
ABs – 7,244; Avg – .318; Runs – 1,071, Hits – 2,304, 2B – 414; HRs – 201; RBIs – 1,085; BB – 450; Ks – 965; OBP – .360; ALG – .477
Everything is very close. The only thing thats any far off is Puckett had 150 more hits, and thats not even much. Another thing, Puckett struck out almost 1,000 times, whereas Donnie Baseball struck out only 444 times.
There’s no reason for Puckett to be in and Mattingly out.
The only thing Puckett has on Mattingly is a ring, but no one says that a ring is necessary for Hall election.
I think its crazy that Puckett is a first ballot HOF’er and Mattingly only gets 16 %
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 6, 2010 5:17 PM EST reply actions
The Puckett vs. Mattingly thing
The reason Puckett got in and Mattingly didn’t is that Puckett’s career ended suddenly due to being hit in the face by Dennis Martinez. Puckett’s final season was still very productive (.314/.379/.515) so the voters assumed that his career numbers would have been worthy had his career not met a tragic end. Mattingly on the other hand, peaked for 5 years and then had a back injury that prevented him from being a top notch player anymore. So while Mattingly’s best years were better than Puckett’s best years, Puckett had more hall of fame worthy years, which is why he’s in and Mattingly’s not. The fact that he was the star of 2 World Series winning teams didn’t hurt him either.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 6, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
2 World Series rings and spectacular CF defense
by Scooby Snacks on Jan 6, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Spectacular defense.
Mattingly won 9 gold gloves.
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 7, 2010 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
1b and CF
are not the same thing, and gold gloves votings are whacked even by baseball award standards.
that being said, Puckett is a bad choice anyway. so being close to a bad choice is hardly comforting, there are similar value guys to Mattingly that gets virtually no vote at all, (see Kevin Appier) . so it’s not like Donnie’s getting completely hosed.
You said it yourself
Both players had injuries that prevented them from playing. Who’s to say that if Mattingly doesn’t injure his back that his numbers wouldn’t be better than Puckett’s?
Also, do the Yanks win a ring with Mattingly in 96? A lot could have helped Mattingly if his injuries didnt plague him.
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 7, 2010 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
Tim Kurkjian said
that the world series was a factor, and that Puckett played CF was also a factor. Michael Kay challenged that by pointing out how important a 1B is, based on the impact that Tex had on the Yankee infield in 2009.
Donny Baseball....
I can’t think of a better fielder who’s ever played 1B. If they don’t want to push him through because of his lack of peak years offensively then maybe they should reconsider him through the Ozzie Smith path to the hall. If the dominant fielding SS of the era can get in on his abilities in the field alone then why not Donny Baseball at 1B?
Ventura's off the ballot
Brandon, why are you not weighing in?
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque
by LateInningRelief on Jan 6, 2010 6:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
My bad
Brandon, I’m a thoughtless toad. Before A-Rod, Ventura was the best 3B we’ve had since Aaron Boone.
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque
by LateInningRelief on Jan 6, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
None of these guys should be in the hall of fame, including Puckett.
This is the hall of fame, not the hall of better than average.
Also, Jim Rice would’ve never made it if he didn’t play half his games in Fenway.
Robin Ventura was an excellent player who hit a ton of grand slams.
He was definitely one of my favorite yankee 3B’s out of the last 15 years.
Still doesn’t make him a hall of famer though.
Edgar Martinez?....Forgeddaboudit.
They’re still trying to figure out if the DH is a real position let alone if Edgar Martinez has enough credentials to be elected.
They let too many people vote for the Hall of Fame!
Do they really need 500+ people to vote? I like how football does it with a committee and I think all other major hall of fame use some sort of committee. Voters have to actually have open debate with each other and can call each other out face to face.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Jan 7, 2010 10:05 AM EST reply actions
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