How Will We Remember A-Rod?
by Brandon C. on Jan 4, 2010 9:00 AM EST
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintAlex Rodriguez had a very interesting 2009 year. With steroids, Kate Hudson, press conferences, hips, doctors, and admissions, he had possibly the most interesting year of his career. Now that we are in 2010, it is a fresh start for Rodriguez How will we remember Alex Rodriguez as of now, though? Not in 5 or 10 years....not in 15-20....but in 60 or 70 years? Will we remember that he used steroids? Will he liken him to Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron? Will we even remember that he had an infamous cousin? Barry Bonds will certainly be brought up when someone mentions the steroid era in 60-70 years. Alex Rodriguez? Maybe. Rodriguez made sure that his whole steroid saga was put to sleep immediately. He admitted it. He explained it. He offered reasons why he did it and why people shouldn't do it. Is that enough to just plain forget about it? Honestly, I think we will forget that he did steroids in 60-70 years. Maybe not all together, but certainly to the point where it is a minor foot-note in an amazing career. Is that fair? Probably not. Is that what will happen? Probably. How about you guys? How will you remember A-Rod in 60-70 years? Vote on it in the poll.
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facts are...
the steroid era can not be looked at in the same light as the era before steroids. Hank Aaron will forever be remembered as the best ever without roids. Even if someone legitimate came around and broke the record, it will always have the sour taste of the steroid era attached to it.
People have been cheating in baseball since the game was first played. Whether it was spit-balls, corked bats, greenies, and now steroids and HGH, the game hasn’t changed, just the sophistication of the cheating.
We all know that it’s very hard to compare players from different eras. You have to see how someone compared to players of his own era. We don’t know how many other players were taking PED’s. In this era, guys like Bonds and A-Rod have been dominant. I mean, look at Bonds, lots of guys did steroids, but nobody else posted seasons with wOBA’s above .500. That’s just ridiculous. As much as people hate bonds, he is the greatest hitter of all time, on equal platform with Babe Ruth in my mind.
I agreed with your first paragraph.
But then you said Bonds is on par with Babe Ruth and I laughed. Babe Ruth is the greatest player ever. Period. No one comes close. And to say Bonds, some roid head who never hit 50 home runs and randomly jumped to 73, is as good as Ruth is an insult to the game of baseball.
Have you ever even taken a look at Ruth’s numbers? That statement was possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever read
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 4, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
No one comes close?
I’m not so sure about that. It’s impossible to compare era’s because the game has changed so much. But there are players that can compare. A-Rod, for instance, may compare. He’s gonna hit 800 home runs! Ruth may still be better but if someone hits 800 home runs I’m pretty sure you can compare him to Ruth.
A-Rod
is no where near Ruth. And just because someone may hit 800 home runs doesn’t mean they’re comparable to Ruth. A-Rod doesn’t come close to Ruth.
Ruth hit .342 for his career. walked over 2000 times. had a .474 OBP. a .690 slugging and a 1.162 OPS
A-Rod’s career avg. is .305 has walked 1000 times. his career OBP is .390, his slugging is .576 and has a .965 OPS
Ruth blows him out of the water. Home runs aren’t enough to put them in the same boat
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 4, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
If A-Rod
ever hits more home runs than some teams combined in parks that are sometimes 460 plus to centerfield, then compare them.
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 4, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
A-Rod also did steroids
Ruth hit 714 home runs in huge parks. A-Rod did 150 some odd home runs while on steroids. I mean how can you say that someone who cheated the game can compare to the greatest player of all time
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 4, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
Huge parks?
Didn’t Babe Ruth play in Yankee Stadium with the right field porch that is around 300 feet, and play half his games in his career there? Some parks were huge, but I’m pretty sure Ruth was helped out A LOT by that short porch.
As for steroids, we really don’t have enough answers, the biggest question with that being, how much did it affect him? Are you saying A-Rod would have gotten no home runs without the steroids? No chance. Would he have gotten 50+? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t know. We’ll never know. Thats the problem with steroids. We don’t have answers, so I didn’t really take that into account.
I’m not saying that A-Rod is better than Ruth. He isn’t. Ruth PITCHED, AND was the greatest hitter of all time. But when you take into account how different the eras were, it’s not such an awful comparison. Would Ruth have dominated the league the way he did back then if he played today, in an era of better pitchers, bullpens, and more even teams? Probably not. A-Rod is going to break more than half of the All-Time hitting records. To say that Ruth blows him out of the water is, I think, just as unfair as saying that A-Rod is better. Ruth is better than A-Rod. He’s also better than Pujols, Mauer, and all the other superstars today, and he’s better than Cobb, Williams, and all those guys. But I don’t believe that he “blows the guy out of the water”. It’s not that far apart.
Ruth blows Arod out of the water
Because Ruth didn’t get 300 ABs in a season until 1918 (because the unmarried regular players were fighting WWI).
From 1915-1918, Ruth pitched 1000 innings for a 78-40 record with a 2.08 ERA and a 1.09 WHIP. His ERA+ was 131 over that span.
At 21 years old he led the league with the lowest hits per 9, was 8th in K/9, and 3rd in IP.
The next year he was top 10 in WHIP, K and IP.
You could make a case for Ruth as the best lefty pitcher over the 5 seasons from 1915-1919 and the second best pitcher in the league (to Walter Johnson).
And focusing on pitching for 4.5 seasons (and not getting the ABs of a full time hitter) probably cost Ruth 200 homers (he averaged 46 homers per year from 25-37).
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Good point,
but nobody is ever going to get the chance to pitch and hit like that again, other than a washout like Ankiel. There are a lot of multi-faceted athletes in baseball—they just get tracked very, very early. Given a chance to hit everyday, I bet C.C. could hit 70 RBIs.
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque
by LateInningRelief on Jan 4, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
CC is one of the best hitting pitchers in baseball
I’m still holding out hope that he hits a home run as a Yankee during interleague play.
They're not close.
Agree to disagree. Adding on to the point that he pitched as well and that took away from his ABs says a lot. Anyway, how deep was the Old Yankee Stadium centerfield? I’m sure Ruth didn’t hit every home run down the line in right.
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 5, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
ARod is young and still has plenty of years ahead of him
to redeem himself. As long as he does not get busted again, he’ll be seen as one of the greatest. It would help, though, if he had a couple of more years with 50+ homeruns just to show the world that it was not the steroids that helped him do it last time.
well
he had that 2007 without steroids. But I agree it would be good for him if he could have another huge, MVP type seasons. He’s getting older though, and, while he’s still one of the leagues best, he’s past his peak.
I think he could have a big year next year, actually. A new year. A full, healthy season. Playing with his new, relaxed attitude, able for a full season of taking advantage of Yankee Stadium. I’m looking for a big year out of him next year.
He will be remembered as one of the GOATS...
but, I don’t know how he could escape the fact he is labeled as a cheater..he just can’t..
I say the third option. This will be remember as the Steriod era. Unfortunately Jeter will be lumped in there..tho hopefully its said that Jeter “was one of the rare stars in the Roid era that was NOT a roider”.
All I know…those that really rip into anyone that did steroids are hypocrites. If there is a word for someone who is 30x more hypocritical then a hypocrite..its someone who knocks the hell out of a player who was on roids.
People cheered for these guys. Roids basically ‘brought back baseball’ in the late 90’s after the strike.
They did what they did…probably cuz they were given the stuff by the owners…
N8 !
I wish they were still using
And as much as I have prayed that Arod will get it together,I forsee O.J. part deux.
Anyone who mentions salary caps as an answer is unemployed. Say Hello to my little friend,Al Pacino-Scarface
by cashman bashman on Jan 4, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
This
Is getting hilariously off topic
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
2010 AL East WAR
I have my preliminary 2010 WAR estimates out and here is the summary page for the AL East. The Yankees come out on top (no big surprise) followed by the Sox, Rays, Orioles and Jays. I’d be curious to see how my WAR total for the Yankees matches up with anything that may have been done at this site.
vr, Xei
Barring miraculous breakthroughs in medicine,
I’m pretty sure I won’t remember A-rod at all in 60 or 70 years.
by cph on Jan 4, 2010 1:31 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Best sentence ever
Sorry, that just made me laugh.
I think either he’ll be remembered as one of the greats of all time, or a great through the steroid era. If he can start this year off right both on the field and off, he shouldn’t have any problems in my eyes.
I think he'll be remembered as
the first huge superstar to admit using steroids. He’s not, but I think that’s how it shakes out in 60 years.
Reason being because there have been only a few really big names to admit such drastic cheating so far and I expect there to be many more instances of drastic cheating in the next 60 years (not spitballs or sandpaper, really drastic like changing body chemistry).
Players will find something else that will tarnish an era and Arod will be first on a list of hundreds of admitted cheaters by then, instead of the handful now.
Having said that, the cheater list will be so diluted by then that he will be remembered as the greatest of all time if he excels for another 8-10 years. That will end up being 3 years of roids in a 20+ year career.
Ironically
Arod’s admission pretty much marked the end of the “steroid era” because it got the majority of people to realize that just about everyone was doing it, even players who didn’t necessarily show the physical signs like Arod. Now we’ve moved on to the “testing era” where lots of players will still do steroids and hgh but since there’s an ineffective testing system in place, hopefully people will stop caring like in the NFL.
The way I see it, Arod and Bonds were the best players of the steroid era just like Ty Cobb was the best of the dead ball era, Ruth was the best of his era, Mays was the best of his and so on. You can go back and forth about which era was the purest form of baseball (I’d say the 60’s-70’s since they were pre-steroid, post integration) but you really can’t compare them to each other. They all had their advantages and disadvantages for players. Steroids or not, Arod will end his career as one of the best players to ever put on a uniform.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 4, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Mantle was a better player than Mays, even if they were Jeter and Ozzie Smith defensively. He was that much of a better hitter.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
its simple
he’ll be remembered as what he is…one of the greatest baseball players of all time, but was one of the players that took steroids at times during his career. i dont think people are going to block out one or the other…he’ll be remembered for what he is.
Now loved as a Yankees, still hated by everyone else.
Yankee fans will now love A-Rod for what he did this postseason, but all other fans will hate him for all his baggage. Luckily he still has some years left to put up presumedly “clean” numbers.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Jan 4, 2010 3:44 PM EST reply actions
And
he’ll never be loved by the haters just for putting up a monster Yankee career. He would also have to completely change the outside perception of himself. It may be too late for that. And it would take becoming Cal Ripken or something like it.
A rod will be ok
Roger clemens I think will be more connected to it….I think he has more people against him…
I’m actually surprised sometimes on how little negativity I hear when arod is on the road…
I mean I know there out there….ofcourse….but I always though a person of a rod’s caliber would feel a lot more heat….Boston (yuck!) Is the only place I heard that REALLY gave it to em’…
But since Big Mami they even quited down….
-Announcemen Forwarded To The Following: Boston Blowsox, New York Pets, Philadelphia Phonies, And Any Other Team Who Ain't The With The Empire.................
Getcha' Fuccin Rings Up........
by NYYWinsRings27 on Jan 4, 2010 4:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
A-Rod
He is one of the greatest players ever to put on a baseball uniform. Period. Yes, he used steroids. But he also admitted to it, took full responsibility, showed remorse, and moved on, which is something that other superstars during the steroid era didn’t do. He made a mistake. Everybody does at some point in their lives. Everybody. It shows that he’s human. But I think it was big that he stepped up and admitted it. It shows that he was truly sorry about it, and realizes his mistake.
I don’t think A-Rod will be connected to steroids as much as the other guys who used them. His use was limited to three years in Texas when it wasn’t illegal in baseball, which is a lot shorter of a time than Bonds, or Big Mac, or Clemens. Also, unlike the other three, I don’t think that steroids did a lot of help for A-Rod. If you look at his numbers in Texas, and compare them to the rest of his career, they are VERY similar. He hit 54 bombs in 2007 without steroids, and that was probably the best year of his career. His natural talent is so good that the steroids didn’t do him much help. Compare that to Bonds, who’s power numbers went up to 73 home runs when he took them. Or McQuire, who hit 70 in a season. Or Clemens, who managed to dominate baseball at age 45+. A-Rod was the same without them as he was with them, and the numbers support that. The fact that his numbers show no dramatic increase when he took steroids help him.
He’ll be loved by Yankees fans, hated by all others for one reason or another. But one thing that can’t be denied when talking about Alex Rodriguez, is that he is, steroids or not, one of the best players of all time.
There was an article on his nubers with and without steriods
Yeah, they made a difference.
Roid seasons vs. Non-Roid seasons, excluding 2009, since this article came out before the season
Games per year: 161.7 and 148.4
Home Runs per year: 52 and 39.2
Batting Avg: .305 and .309
Slugging: .615 and .574
He played more games. They kept him healthier and stronger. He hit 12 more home runs per year. his slugging was 40 points higher. I mean, you gotta say they made a difference.
by Frank Campagnola on Jan 4, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
true
however, you have to consider also that the three years in Texas were also playing in the prime of his career, playing in a hitters park, in a weak division. I’m sure that had something to do with it too. His numbers would have been higher then than the other years of his career regardless.
I agree with you that the boli probably helped him stay healthy, and thats why he played every single day. Thats the one part I agree that the steroids made a difference. We’ll never know, will we? How much steroids helped him or ANY player who used them. We don’t have answers. I’m just saying that, according to the numbers, they didn’t help him as much as the other superstars who used them, like Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McQuire, Manny, Ortiz, ect.
A- Rod and the Steroid Era!
A-Rod is one of the games greatest ever. No as in other posts he does not beat out a Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle. Hell you are talking the best of the best when you look at numbers. He made his mistakes but in all actuality you still have to hit the ball.
Comparing Era’s if you keep saying Ruth this or Ruth that take into consideration that todays pitchers are far less supierior than the days of Ruth. For one the expansion of teams means less quality on any given team. Yes they have to face more pitchers now with their better stuff but the players are not made the same way. Ruth drank beer and lots of it, he never saw a weight room or did off season training. This players today with all their technology and supplements would not be as huge as they are or as strong and dominant as they are without it. Technology has advanced the game, in dynamics and in cheating. You still have to hit the ball. I don’t care how many home runs you hit. If the ball doesn’t touch the bat then you won’t hit any. It may elevate a players game but not to the extent of making an average player a superstar or a superstar the greatest ever. Bonds had his day and was feared by most same with Gibson in the ’60’s. (Oh by the way they changed the elevation of the mound because of him, what have they done because of A-Rod and Bonds INCREASED drug testing). Let them play the game and the stats will sort themselves out.
Honestly...I don't care
what A-Rod’s legacy will be. He’s a cog in the current Yankee machine.
A-Rod was great when he came up with Seattle and still is today wearing Yankee pinstripes. Just like Barry Bonds, he’s been at the top of the class consistently when on the playing field.
To me, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada, and Andy Pettitte will be remembered as the faces of the franchise during the three successful decades that they’ve played in.
we'll see in afew years
Personally i don’t think Roids dictate how well a person can see the ball, how they hit it and thier mechanics. Yes it;s illegal and produces muscle growth but having more strength doens;t equate to talent with Arod always had. The fact he admitted to it and confess, is better than guys like bonds or mcguire who deny t no end.additional the fact he did it when he’s still playing and has years to continue also helps
An important choice or pair of choices missing
Let me start by asking you to name 1939 Yanks. No looking it up.
Let me talk about Bill Dickey. When I was a boy in the late 50’s there was a lot of talk about “all time all-stars”. Bill Dickey was always considered the best catcher EVER. Dad, who saw him and Grandpa, who was a baseball Coach and great talent evaluator agreed. Now he’s nearly forgotten.
At this point it is not certain Arod will be remembered at all.
We are hard up for something to talk about.
"You don't realize how easy this game is until you get up in that broadcasting booth." Mickey
by Cbeck3 on Jan 5, 2010 8:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Possible
He could break the home run record
Writer for Pinstripe Alley.
"Today I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
"So I close in saying that I may have had a tough break, but I have an awful lot to live for."
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