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Lackey vs. Vazquez

Our main rival acquired one big-name pitcher this off-season. So did our team. Which was the better acquisition?

It's not as simple as determining who will have the better 2010, but who will perform better beyond and what the cost was to acquire each.

John Lackey had FIPs of 3.54, 4.53 and 3.73 over the last three years, pitching 224, 163 and 176 innings. His WARs were 5.6, 2 and 3.9. He'll be 31 this season.

Javier Vazquez had FIPs of 3.80, 3.74 and 2.77 with innings totals of 217, 208 and 219. His WARs were 5.1, 4.8 and 6.6 - he'll turn 34 in July.

Encouraging. Vazquez' worst year (of the last three) was only slightly below Lackey's best year. .8 WAR to be exact. Vazquez' three-year average (5.5) is almost two wins better than Lackey's (3.8). It looks as though the guy wearing pinstripes will have the better 2010, not necessarily because of ERA, but because of durability. Despite Lackey's reputation as a 'bulldog,' he's hit the DL each of the last two years with elbow injuries (which has to be worrisome for Boston). Vazquez hasn't made less than 32 starts in any year but one (way back in 1999). I don't mean to bash Lackey, who is durable, but he's no Javy Vazquez, whose durability borders on supernatural.

So Vazquez gets the edge for 2010.

Star-divide

Unfortunately, that is the most tangible part of the equation. What the pitchers do beyond 2010 (and what the teams gave up) requires far more speculation.

Lackey is signed for five years at $82.5 million ($16.5 million/year). He'll pitch for the Red Sox through 2014. His deal will encompass his age 31-35 seasons. He is entering the (historically speaking) decline phase of his career. As expected, his best seasons came at ages 26-28 (WARs of 5.9, 6 and 5.6). It would be fair to presume Lackey will accrue 3-4 WAR/season for the life of his contract with Boston.

Vazquez is signed for one year at $11.5 million. He'll be a free agent after 2010, his age-33 year. Since we don't know where Vazquez will pitch beyond 2010 (if at all), this category goes to Lackey, who is signed four years longer than Vazquez. Vazquez could exceed Lackey's production from 2011-2014, but if it's not for the Yanks, it has no bearing on this debate.

There's also the question of what was given up to acquire each pitcher. The Red Sox are giving up $82.5 million and a first-round draft pick for five years of their pitcher. The Yankees are giving three players and $11.5 million for one year of theirs. It would seem the Yanks are giving up considerably more: Melky Cabrera is a league average centerfielder, and at the age of 25 (with potential improvement), has considerable value. A first round pick is a total crapshoot. In the last 20 years, the Sox have drafted such players as Trot Nixon, Nomar, Clay Buchholz and Jacoby Ellsbury, but also duds like Andy Yount, John Curtice and Phil Dumatrait. The winner of the Vazquez trade depends on the future of Arodys Vizcaino, formerly the Yankees' second best prospect.

But another factor is the possibility that the Yanks receive draft compensation if/when Javy Vazquez declines arbitration after the season, which also depends on how well he performs. A good season all but guarantees him 'Type A' status. A mediocre season would still likely garner him 'Type B' status. Getting high draft picks for Vazquez could largely negate the loss of the three players traded for him.

To sum up -

Performance edge

2010 - Vazquez

2011 and beyond - Lackey (because we don't know where Vazquez will be pitching).

Acquisition fee edge

Contract and flexibility - Vazquez

Cost (in terms of money/players given up) - at this point, Lackey gets the slight nod, but it could swing drastically in either direction.

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I don't know

We’re paying less money per year for a year we know is going to be good, while the Red Sox are paying more money per year for 5 years of declining and questionable pitching. Granted, we did give up Melky, but he’d never be a starting OF anyway, so the only big loss on this deal, for me, is Vizcaino-and he might never pan out anyway.

I give Cash the edge on this one.

I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.

Vince Lombardi

by moose35 on Jan 25, 2010 11:14 AM EST reply actions  

Not to mention,

he won’t be ready for 3-4 years.

So, +1 for Cashman.

by Vancouverguy on Jan 25, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Can't see how the Yanks didn't win this one...

You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 25, 2010 11:23 AM EST reply actions  

Agree

..but for the final time, Melky is well above “league average”. Check the numbers, which I have already posted in the past. “That’s all I have to say about that”.

by david d on Jan 25, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Melky was "above league average"

cuz he played on the Yankees…batting in front of Derek Jeter…

You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 25, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

How about a serviceable centerfielder?

He also was ready to make 3 million dollars in his arbitration case which is apparently more than the Yankees were willing to spend on him because the Yankee brass seemed to think that Brett Gardner and he were approximately equal.

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Jan 25, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

What does

that mean? Then you can make that argument for every player on this team. Batting in front of Jeter. Didn’t seem to help Molina, Gardner…Don’t understand that comment at all. Strange. Some of you are just Melky haters.

by david d on Jan 25, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

your dead wrong dude,

melky was a very very solid player who could play defense and did what he had to do in the lineup. He wasn’t and will not be a star but he knew his spot on the team and contributed with big hits and consistent play.

where have you gone Joe dimaggio our nation turns it's lonely eyes to you?

by Brooklynsoul on Jan 25, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

who improved their staff for 2010

that is my question?

which pitcher fills more SP needs for his new team?

I’d say that one is a tossup – edge to lackey

by MSP Giant on Jan 25, 2010 1:26 PM EST reply actions  

Yankees

We had CC, AJ, and Andy, after that a “tryout” between Hughes and Joba for a spot and an empty space, unless you seriously consider Gaudin and or Mitre for a spot. Vazquez filled a huge hole and hopefully will pan out. To me, the Yankees definitely improved their staff more than the Sux.

by david d on Jan 25, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree

CC, AJ, Andy, Hughes/Joba, Hughes/Joba/Aceves/Gaudin/Mitre/etc
Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Buchholz, Wakefield

I think the Yankees made the stronger upgrade because the addition of Joba/Hughes to the bullpen is greater than or equal to Buchholz/Wakefield to the pen.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jan 25, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

We're also not comparing

apples to apples here. The Sox are counting on Lackey to be as good as a 1-2 starter. Vazquez has no pressure on him. If he throws one pitch and goes on the DL for the season we’ll be left with the same staff that won the WS.

by Jaybat on Jan 25, 2010 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

pitchers

sandy koufax—-who is more like sandy—-vasquez or holiday, lee or vasquez, lee or holiday?? did yanks get what they need???? no……

by zappo007 on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST reply actions  

Koufax

wasn’t available…wanted too much money.

by david d on Jan 25, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

KOUFAX

HES THE KIND OF PITCHER YANKEES NEEDED TO KEEP THEIR VETERANS FROM BURNING OUT PERIOD….

by zappo007 on Jan 25, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You do realize

his career ended because he blew out his arm don’t you?

by david d on Jan 25, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

piching

holiday was the pitcher you should have got—-really pathetic scouting———yankees

by zappo007 on Jan 25, 2010 3:01 PM EST reply actions  

Halladay

required a multi-year deal. Go back to your Filly or Sux board please.

by david d on Jan 25, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

YANKEE FANS DONT READ SUX OR PHILLY POSTS NUMNUT

I AM A YANKEES FAN FROM ’60S—-AND I KNOW THE QUALITY OF KOUFAX —I WATCHED HIM BEAT MANTLE AND COMPANY—AND I SAY AGAIN CASHMAN BETRAYED THE YANKEES ORGANIZATION—-HE COULD HAVE GOT HALLADAY—-CABRERA, DAMON, +MVP OF WORLD SERIES +A PITCHER—-YEA WHAT A WASTE OF PLAYER PERSONEL—-CASHMAN SCREWED UP IN ALL DIRECTIONS—-HE SENT HALLADAY TO OUR COMPITITION—NUMNUT!!!!!!

by zappo007 on Jan 25, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

i love the yankees but...

i dont love cashman——-he ignored holiday……….BOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by zappo007 on Jan 25, 2010 3:18 PM EST reply actions  

HEY SHORT SIGHTED

CASHMAN COULD HAVE LANDED HIM —HE CHOKED PERIOD

by zappo007 on Jan 25, 2010 3:23 PM EST reply actions  

good thing you're not the GM!

You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 25, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

where did they come from all the sudden?

I can’t barely stand it here anymore.

Let the Panic bloom R.Lewis is the coolest guy you don't know.He is so cool that spell check was his idea.But wait,I think he is so cool that when you open the freezer the ice cubes jump behind the ice cream.

by cashman bashman on Jan 25, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

..... Wow

Did anyone else know that Holliday was a pitcher of the same caliber as Koufax? Why is he playin left field then?

lol. Too funny

For the Love of the Game

by ForTheLove on Jan 25, 2010 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

OK WISE GUY HAHA

SO I SPELLED HIS NAME WRONG—-YOU KNOW WHAT I MEANT NUMNUT

by zappo007 on Jan 25, 2010 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

For an old man you're pretty rude.

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Jan 26, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

WHOSE CRAWFORD

CRAWFORD?? CRAWFISHWHOOOOOOO?

by zappo007 on Jan 25, 2010 3:47 PM EST reply actions  

Solid article

but it should be note your comparing vasquez national league numbers, with lackeys american league numbers.

by beantownboy171 on Jan 25, 2010 3:59 PM EST reply actions  

it should also be noted

that for some of those stats, the american or national league don’t matter.

For instance: Inning Pitched and injury frequency still place Vasquez at a better value for 2010, especially when all the Yankees need is a fourth starter who can eat up innings and save the bullpen from being overworked. I’ll grant you that some of Vasquez’s strikeout numbers likely are skewed a bit by pitching in the NL, but he still placed 5th in of all of baseball in strikeouts, 9th in ERA, 5th in SO/9, 5th in H/9, 8th in BB/9, 3rd in SO/BB ratio, and 3rd in BB+H/9. Source

Lackey is nowhere to be found on the top 10 of any pitching stats from last year.

Conversely, the Red Sox have an ace but need a more reliable #2 or #3 starter (depending on how Beckett performs). So, the demand on Lackey will require him to not only stay healthy, but continue to start as many games as he can and pitch as long into those games as he can. Plus, more pressure.

I wonder, though, what would have happened had Scoscia left Lackey in that ALCS game with the bases loaded.

by phonty on Jan 25, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

no but javy will not thrive in the american league

i dont like getting into those stats because they do not tell the whole story. I do agree that the yanks did a good job with this especially cause he will be their fourth starter. But don’t even dare expect something close to last year in the weak hitting national league. He had an ERA in the 4’s with the yanks and the white sox when he was in the american league and was unable to pitch in key spots. And Lackey while is often injured, was able to win game 7 as a rookie and was dominant in game 5 last year when he tried to tell sciosia to fuck off. No doubt about it the yankees are going to be more bang for their buck though

where have you gone Joe dimaggio our nation turns it's lonely eyes to you?

by Brooklynsoul on Jan 25, 2010 7:15 PM EST reply actions  

This site sure has gone to hell since the series

Let the Panic bloom R.Lewis is the coolest guy you don't know.He is so cool that spell check was his idea.But wait,I think he is so cool that when you open the freezer the ice cubes jump behind the ice cream.

by cashman bashman on Jan 25, 2010 10:34 PM EST reply actions  

you think that's a coincidence?

1/2 of the new members weren’t even Yankee fans before they won the Series.

WS winners = bandwagoners.

Wanna win…gotta deal with the consequences…

Just like all of a sudden there’s so many Jet fans. This is why I don’t “root for NY”…its a closet form of bandwagoning…

You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 26, 2010 7:44 AM EST up reply actions  

its funny

it has yet to sink in that Vazquez is in the rotation.

by Opening Day, I should be able to feel the full force of this rockin’ starting rotation

by scarpgarph on Jan 27, 2010 8:20 PM EST reply actions  

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