New York Yankee notes: 2010 team better than '09?
by Ed Valentine on Jan 20, 2010 8:30 AM EST
in News
48 comments
Could the 2010 New York Yankees be even better than the World Series champion 2009 version? MLB.com's Mike Bauman thinks so.
The bad news for the other 29 clubs is that in the offseason of 2009-'10 the Yankees have not exactly become worse. In fact, the evidence suggests that they have become better. They are not without questions, but their questions are fewer and smaller than those of the vast majority of the competition.
The things that strike you about the Yankees' work this winter is that they moved without sentiment, but also without spending $423.5 million. They made some necessary moves, but these moves did not include overwhelming free agents with offers that could not be refused.
They have made two significant acquisitions, both in trades. There is center fielder Curtis Granderson, a genuinely exciting player who brings speed, extra-base pop, and a generous, genial nature. Granderson is an upgrade in center and that is how these things must be measured.
Then there is starting pitcher Javier Vazquez, not a complete newcomer to the Bronx. Vazquez pitched for the Yankees in 2004, during which time he was generally fine in the first half and generally inadequate in the second.
But nobody ever doubted his stuff, and he hasn't lost any of it. He put up some of the best numbers of his career last season with the Atlanta Braves (15-10, 2.87 ERA, 44 walks, 238 strikeouts). Again, he is an upgrade. The Yankees went with a three-man rotation in their 2009 postseason triumph. They could go to four now and feel very good about the change.
The losses of [Hideki] Matsui and [Johnny] Damon are not inconsequential. Melky Cabrera didn't keep the Yankees from winning, either. But the additions of Granderson and Vazquez make all kinds of sense. This is not an operation that is following success with complacency.
I agree that I feel very good about the Yankee roster heading into the season, regardless of what happens with left field. As was pointed out the other day, the primary thing that could derail this team is the age of some of its most important players.
Talking about Damon
As the off-season drags on, and Damon continues to sit home and wait for someone to offer him employment (I know the feeling), his status continues to be a hot topic among Yankees fans.
Bob Klapisch thinks Damon has only two options -- crawl back to the Yankees at their price or retire.
Remember back in November, when Damon refused to give the Bombers a hometown discount? Remember when he said that unless Brian Cashman was ready to pay $13 million a year, don’t bother making an offer? Damon should’ve been careful for what he wished.
No one has called, no one has that kind of money anymore and no one, least of all Damon and his agent Scott Boras, has any hope of this ending well.
With only a month to go until spring training, Damon has two options: He can call the Yankees and admit he has nowhere to go. The Yankees, who will listen politely, will tell Damon he can play for $2 million for one season, not a penny or a day more.
Option 2, practically unthinkable after the World Series, would be retirement. A friend of Damon’s recently said, "Johnny is completely in the family mode right now" and has considered that option. It’s still hard to believe that, in the wake of a 24-home run campaign in 2009, and hitting .364 against the Phillies in the Series, Damon actually would quit.
In retrospect, he should’ve accepted the Yankees’ final offer in December, which would’ve paid him $14 million for two years. But neither he nor Boras took a 50 percent pay cut seriously. The agent had a bigger, delusional vision of the market, including a $180 million payday for Matt Holliday that was supposed to duplicate Mark Teixeira’s contract.
NY Baseball Digest thinks sitting out until after the season begins might actually be Damon's best chance to earn an offer he would like -- possibly even from the Yankees. Circling the Bases figures the Yankees and Damon are still a match. On the other hand, NoMaas is tired of the whole thing and wishes Yankee fans would just stop talking about Damon.
Other Notes
- Yogi Berra doesn't see how Mark McGwire can get into the Hall of Fame, even though he has now come clean about his steroid use.
- MLB.com's Bryan Hoch has some interesting things to say in response to some reader e-mail.
- Chien-Ming Wang might have a suitor in the St. Louis Cardinals.
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This team is definitely better than last years team was at this point.
Granderson is a step up from Damon and Javy is light years ahead of CMW.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
Light years ahead of Wang?
Vasquez is nice, but if both of them stacked up against themselves at full health, then it’s Wang who would get my vote.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
I think
Casanova is referring to the 2009 version of Wang. Healthy, that is a whole different debate.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 20, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Yes sir.
Last year CMW started 9 games, 8 of which were losses. That means we pretty much gave Boston an 8 game handicap throughout the first couple months of the season. Obviously you can’t say Javy would have won all 9 starts but just being .500 instead of .110 is an extra 5 wins, not to mention dozens of innings eaten that the bullpen can rest during.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jan 20, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
I get what you're saying
but it sounded like you meant better talent-wise than Wang (“light years ahead of Wang”). But of course, Vasquez is an upgrade at this point. The question is whether or not Wang comes back to his old self. I still think the Yankees misjudged the injury and then rushed him back, which caused his mechanics problems.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
I think Vasquez
is better than Wang because in 5 years of playing for the Yankees, Wang has only gotten close or surpassed 200 innings in two of those years. Vasquez has thrown more than 200 innings at least 9 times in his much longer career.
Vasquez is, in my opinion, better than Wang. Not only because he stayed healthy and consistent, but because he is a proven talent with strikeouts and wins aplenty.
Oh, and please remove all thoughts of 2004 from your mind about Vasquez since he pitched the 2nd half hurt and that’s the main factor in his decline in performance.
I do hope Wang returns to form, I just wonder if he’ll have both the confidence and an available spot on the Yankees roster (which may not happen if he signs with someone else).
I definitely blame the Yankees for CMW's current prognosis.
He used to rely on running for most of his conditioning during the offseason. After the lisfranc injury they told him not to run at all during the winter. As a result his legs weren’t nearly as strong as they should have been, and it stands to reason his shoulder injury came from trying to overcompensate for weak legs by overthrowing.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jan 20, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Damon
People are saying that every passing day lowers the chances of the Yankees getting Damon, but that’s not the case here. Every day he doesn’t get his deal and has to lower his market price get the Yankees closer to Damon. It’s up to Cashman to determine whether or not Damon will moan and complain if he gets 2-3Million.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
Do you think he might just retire? Happened to Frank Thomas last offseason- a perfectly good hitter who had no place to play because of his position and contract demands.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
No.
Frank had become very one-dimensional, and had lost bat speed. He was susceptible to pitches he once crushed. Damon has plenty left in the tank, and while his speed may have dwindled some, he’s far from one-dimensional. Damon will play … somewhere. I just hope it’s in the Bronx. I just don’t feel comfortable with BG in the lineup everyday.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
not to meantion
Frank Thomas had basically already had his HOF case made, for Damon, if he gets to 3000 hits (which isn’t out of the question for him) he might have a real shot at the hall, but if he retires now there’s virtually no chance.
by RollingWave on Jan 20, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Definitelly not
It seems like the only club that wants him is the Yankees, but if Damon+Boras publicly said that they’re looking for a one year, 7Million deal, then you have 15 or so clubs who would line up to take him. It’s a battle between Damon’s ego and the current market, one that Damon’s losing day-by-day.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
I highly doubt that
there is going to be a 1/$7M offer going Damon’s way from any team.
by Scooby Snacks on Jan 20, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Damon had a career year last year
and he still has plenty left to offer. Frank Thomas was near the end of his rope.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 20, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Are we better? Is Damon better off?
Are we better? Who knows? Let’s watch the season.
Is Damon better off “retiring?” I don’t know how long long it would take him to get into “game shape” if he blew off spring training. Would it be 5 minutes, like Brett Favre, or 5 weeks, like a 37 year old baseball player? I suspect that the answer is the latter, in which case sitting around on his butt during March wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense. If he signed in mid- May, he wouldn’t be ready until Flag Day. (If you don’t know when that is, shame on you. Look it up). I don’t think his paycheck would be much different either way.
by designatedquitter on Jan 20, 2010 10:47 AM EST reply actions
2010 Yankees Are Better Than the 2009 Yankees
But so are the Red Sox!!!
It will be difficult topping 103 regular season wins in 2010 but we should still win the division. Boston has improved and I expect a closer race.
Nady, if healthy, on a one year incentivized deal would be my preference over Damon. Damon probably would not accept a deal less than $5MM minimum
by YANKEES FOREVER on Jan 20, 2010 10:58 AM EST reply actions
Better in CF
Not better in LF
Not better at DH
Better starting pitching
Better pen with Joba ( or Hughes)
The Yankees are marginally better. If Gardner plays well great. If Johnson stays healthy – great! If Joba thrives as Mo’s set-up man again – great.
But we won’t know for awhile. Lots of questions.
Go get Nady, Cash!!!
Better starting pitching and bullpen is key here
Last year, middle relief was pretty shaky with the likes of Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras getting innings and Marte and Bruney missing time. Then there was the Joba three-inning starts experiment which further stressed the bullpen. It’s much more stabilized now.
by Scooby Snacks on Jan 20, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Better?
There are still holes to fill:
1. they need a decent back up catcher. I thought they would have had Posada DH more if they had someone to split time behind the plate. Instead they signed Johnson. It appears they’ll go with Cerville?
2. they need a UT -IF. They’ll go with Pena for 3rd & SS. Who spells Cano?
3. If Gardner spells Granderson in CF who plays LF.
There will be invites to spring training for sure.
by dustproduction on Jan 20, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know
The rotation should be better in that we won’t be getting 24 starts from Gaudin, Mitre, and an injured Wang – hopefully. Last year going into the season we didn’t think we would either.
The lineup has taken a step back. NJ and Granderson probably won’t be as good as the Damon and Matsui of 2009 (although Damon and Matsui probably won’t be as good as the Damon and Matsui of 2009). Also Gardner isn’t as good a hitter as Melky. This all changes if we bring Damon back because then we wouldn’t even have a weak spot in the order.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 20, 2010 11:38 AM EST reply actions
To be fair
Gaudin was perfectly respectable as a #5 option. I still prefer Joba or Hughes taking that spot though.
What is the appeal with Nady?
I’m confused about it. Nady had the best year of his career by far in 2008, and you can not only factor in regression, but now he also had a 2nd elbow surgery. I don’t think that his expected price either makes him a better play over signing Damon, or even putting Nady in left over Gardner.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 20, 2010 12:41 PM EST reply actions
Brett Gardners numbers - less home runs make sense for left...unless Damon gives in.
If Damon will accept $5 million and incentives with a 1 year option – $1 million buyout he should be signed. Otherwise, Grander can get the job done. Look at his numbers and you’ll realize he may nothave power BUT he has the speed and the .OBP that makes things happen. Batting in the number nine position could also be a big catalyst.
Damon
should retire. He is one dimensional, in my opinion, because he is not reliably defensively in LF. If we had an open 1B to stick him in, I’d be all over it. But that’s not happening.
The only way he comes back to the Yankees is with his tail between his legs, accepting a $2M (up to no more than $4M) +incentives for one year deal, and agrees to platoon LF and DH (splitting time with Gardner and Johnson, respectively). I honestly have a hard time seeing that happen.
Plus, as has been written about before (can’t remember where), there is the possibility of an attitude problem from Damon for being “forced” to take a pay cut to keep playing, which Cashman either said (or alluded to) he would want to avoid that kind of drama.
It’s not the Yankees’ fault, it’s Damon’s and Boras’. They overplayed their hand and should have taken the last offer they got from the Yankees, but they didn’t and now they’re going to be begging to get any contract they can.
"Damon should retire"
No, he shouldn’t. A player should retire when he knows he is at the end of his rope, and has very little left to give. That’s not the case with Damon at all.
“there is the possibility of an attitude problem from Damon for being "forced" to take a pay cut to keep playing,”
Possible, but what else is Damon going to do if he has no other suitors out there? Because he’s not retiring. It’s his own damn fault that he’s in the situation he is. Holding a grudge against the Yankees would be beyond silly.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 20, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Are you kidding?
the guy has plenty left in the tank. How is he a one dimensional player? He has speed, good bat control, can hit the ball to all sides of the field, has a pretty good average and OBP every year, and, in Yankee Stadium, he has pop. Not to mention that he is coming off one of the best seasons of his career, just after practically winning one of the WS games with his baserunning, and winning a WS. Tell me again. Why should he retire?
And if Damon comes back, he’s starting, and thats the end of it. There is no way that Gardner would get the nod in LF over Damon. Damon is better than both Nick Johnson and Brett Gardner. Why would Damon have to platoon?
I agree that it’s Damon and Boras’s fault that we are approaching the end of January and Damon still has no offers, and that he overplayed his hand. But saying that he’s a one dimensional player and that he should hang it up after the season he just had is ridiculous.
johnny damon should retire?
i hope that was a joke. just because the guy isnt going to get the kind of money he was looking for doesnt mean he should retire. the guy just tied his career high in homeruns(yes i know he played in NY, but if that was the single factor in his success then he should come back here and not retire), he had one of his top rbi seasons, and ooo wait he just went 12 FOR 12 in stolen base attempts(his first season ever without having a CS) yes i realize he is no longer the stolen base threat that he once was, but that aspect of his game is NOT gone(did u see the world series). yes i agree that his defense is well below average, but does that mean he should retire? I guess mike piazza shouldve never even bothered playing since he was so poor defensively. what a joke.
I hope it come across I was suggesting he should retire.
Rather, might he chose to retire if he can’t find the kind of offer he wants? He’s a millionaire, a two time champ, and 37 years old.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
This team is definitely better than the 2009 version
especially pitching wise. The bullpen is a lot more reliable now, and also, the starting pitching is probably as good as it has been since 2003 (although not definitely. Thats what everyone said last year before Wang imploded). The bats are probably weaker, at least right now. Damon is better than Gardner, and Matsui is better than Johnson. However, the addition of Granderson helps things, and it is still one of the best offenses in baseball. It’s gonna be tough to top the 103 wins the team had in 2009, but not impossible. They should still be the AL East favorites (except at Over the Monster).
On Damon, I have a hard time believing that he is going to retire. He shouldn’t. He has plenty left. But he had absolutely NO place to go now. The Braves are out of it. The Giants don’t seem to be in it anymore. The Tigers were never interested. He definitely isn’t going back to Boston. The Mets probably don’t want him (they need a CF. Can you imagine Damon playing center in Citi Field?). His only realistic option is the place he just won a championship in. They have a hole in LF that he can fill. He’s going to have to take a very low price, and I mean a VERY low price. But better making 2 million from a World Championship caliber team and hitting in the best spot in baseball (#2 for the Yankees), than being unemployed. I think Damon is coming back, and he should come back.
I think, regardless how far is market drops
no way Damon settles for only 2 million.
I foresee something like the 1/5 Abreu got last year. And Abreu didn’t sign with Anaheim till something like 5 days before spring training began.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 20, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
It seems to me
that Yankee fans, like in many ways, have developed two very different trains of thought regarding Damon. There are those of us who would absolutely love to have Damon back (I’m one of them), and many others are saying putting Damon down, as if to say his time has come and passed, and he can only get worse while Gardner can get better.
And I don’t get why. Damon had a great season last year. He’s still a very good top of the order hitter who can get on base roughly 36% of the time. His defense leaves quite a bit to be desired, I grant that, but then again (and I understand saber heads love defense these days), is a below average LFer going to be what kills a team? It certainly didn’t hurt the 2009 Yankees who had…Johnny Damon in left field. The 2008 Phillies managed with an abomination of a LFer in Pat Burrell.
I’m no saber guy, but by my estimations, using the beloved “WAR” concept, if Damon was worth 3 “wins”, and his defense, by UZR, was -12.1, wouldn’t that mean his bat was worth 4 “wins”? That’s pretty damned valuable.
I have nothing against Gardner. He brings a dimension that no one else on the Yankees can provide. That said, I’d be much more comfortable with Gardner as a 4th OF/pinch runner/defensive replacement.
couldnt agree more
ofcourse johnny is not good defensively but right now it’s easy to say we don’t need another bat. but if we can get johnny at a reasonable price i think its very important that we do. there will be times throughout the year when the yankees have their struggles with either injuries or slumps and we’ll be wishing that we spent the couple extra million to have johnny in our 2 slot, off possibly his best offensive season.
Ok
maybe he “shouldn’t” retire. My point was just that he seriously needs to reconsider his priorities if he wants to play next year.
I think his bat is still great and valuable, but I’m wondering whether he will be willing to take his lumps in his next contract after this fiasco.
If he really wanted to come back to the Yankees, he’d have taken the Yankees’ offer after Matsui was allowed to sign with the Angels for $.5M more than what the Yankees signed Nick Johnson.
Like I said in my previous post:
The only way he comes back to the Yankees is with his tail between his legs, accepting a $2M (up to no more than $4M) +incentives for one year deal, and agrees to platoon LF and DH (splitting time with Gardner and Johnson, respectively). I honestly have a hard time seeing that happen.
If Damon comes back
he’s starting. There won’t be any platoon with him. He’ll be the left fielder, Gardner will be the fourth outfielder, and that will be the end of it. Damon doesn’t need to worry about a platoon or splitting time with amyone. If he returns, then he’s gonna start. I guarantee you that.
Yep
And I hope they re-sign him. Yes, his arm is a liability, but overall he’s still a decent fielder and in Left his lack of arm strength isn’t that big a deal. His bat and speed/baserunning ability tho, in the two hole, is as good as it can get for the Yankees.
On paper, you guys look better,
but remember that a lot of your guys had career years last year. Jeter, Posada, Cano and Swisher (not to mention Damon if he comes back) all had some of their best years. Some of those guys will regress this year, especially the older ones.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I'll grant you Posada, Damon, and possibly Jeter
not Cano or Swisher.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 20, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think this can be argued with:
the Yanks are better poised to win the A.l. East, A.L. and World Series with Granderson and Vazquez in place of Matsui, Damon, and Melky; as the article suggested. The only real question is how granderson will transition. He had a little bit of difficulty in hitting for a better average (yes, I’m aware he’s mostly an extra base threat but that’s not an excuse to hit .249 a year after hitting .280). As far as everything else goes, we still got basically the whole core of guys returning and I also think Vazquez will be an absolute stud in the 4 spot in the rotation.
God Bless the Yanks
Reports are that the coaches will work with Granderson to get his BA back up there, over 280.
by dustproduction on Jan 20, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
One thing about Damon and Matsui
is that both of those guys are/were not only great hitters, but they’re great clutch hitters. Both of them came up huge in October/November. In that regard, they won’t be easy to replace.
That said, it made sense that Matsui wasn’t re-signed, and that’s because the Yankees know his medicals better than anybody. I’m guessing they saw something with his knees that they didn’t like, and they weren’t going to pursue him unless he hung around the free agent market unsigned. I don’t view Nick Johnson as an upgrade, and he obviously has had his fair share of injuries, but the whole concept of moving on from Matsui makes sense.
Letting Damon go (potentially) for Gardner in left makes no sense at all.
So, I can agree the Yankees are better poised to win the division, pennant, etc. with Curtis, Johnson, and Javy here in place of Matsui and Melky. I can’t simply dismiss Damon yet.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 20, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Only upgrade I see is Vazquez
Damon/Granderson, Matsui/Johnson, Cabrera/Gardner. Dont see much of an upgrade. Maybe Granderson
Agreed.
I’ll wait until Granderson shows he can hit lefties before I get too high on him. 2 of the last 3 years, he’s OPSed under .500 against lefties.
That’s pretty awful.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 21, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
And here
you have it, regarding Damon.
Old buddy Jerry Hairston Jr. was on Jim Bowden’s radio show on XM 175 earlier this evening, and said that the Yankees never made him an offer for a very specific reason. "Brian Cashman’s going to get mad at me," said Jerry, "but Yanks didn’t make me offer because he’s waiting on (Johnny) Damon’s price to come down." Yes Jerry, you’re going to make Cash angry, and you wouldn’t like him when he’s angry.
It’s still possible that Joel Sherman’s report of the team only having $2M left to spend on left field is accurate, and they’re just hoping for Damon to accept an 85% paycut, or it could have been a negotiating ploy. I can hear the conversation now: "Well, we’ve only got $2M left to spend, but if you want $5M, then fine, you win. Our hands … are tied."
RAB with the news.
Damon/Nady/Byrnes Offer
Cash & Hal make Damon a one year $5MM(Abreu) take it or leave it offer good for 48 hours. If turned down then
Offer Nady a $3MM/one year incentivized deal. If no go then
Get Eric Byrnes at league minimum salary to platoon with Gardner.
by YANKEES FOREVER on Jan 21, 2010 11:42 AM EST reply actions
I'd be fine
if the Yankees took a look at Reed Johnson and used him as a platoon mate for Granderson. Damon wouldn’t need to join a platoon.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 21, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
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