Hughes a playoff starter? Fuhgeddaboudit!
ESPN's Rob Neyer yesterday floated the idea that the New York Yankees should spend the rest of the season stretching out Phil Hughes to start in the playoffs. NY Baseball Digest's Mike Silva actually agreed with Neyer.
Are you kidding me? Where is this nonsense coming from? And why now?
Neyer's argument basically comes to stating that Hughes and Joba Chamberlain should switch roles, since Chamberlain has been mostly awful in his last six starts.
He's (Chamberlain) won just one of them and lost three. He's struck out 20 hitters and walked 17. His ERA has jumped from 3.58 to 4.41. He's looked nothing like a pitcher you might trust in a big game. And he's pitched 137 innings, which doesn't seem like a lot but is 36 more than he's ever pitched before. If he's struggling now because he's tired, what's going to happen in October after another 25 or 30 innings?
Which is where Hughes comes in. Chamberlain is the Yankees' No. 4 starter. Sergio Mitre is the Yankees' No. 5 starter. Which means the Yankees, as things stand now, have only three reliable starters. And again, you need four of them when the leaves are turning in New England.
I know, I know ... Phil Hughes has been so good in the bullpen: 1.11 ERA with an overpowering strikeout-to-walk ratio. Make him a starter again and he's not going to post numbers anything like those. But to help the Yankees, he doesn't have to be anywhere near that good; he just has to be measurably better than Chamberlain and Mitre. Particularly if -- and I know this is highly speculative -- Chamberlain regains his dominant stuff upon returning to a relief role.
Silva joins the Hughes-Chamberlain switcheroo chorus with this argument.
Normally I wouldn’t be for this type of change in September. I believe in a strong bullpen and the Yankees have virtually locked down six outs of every game. The problem is no team is good enough to play fast and loose with a Game 4 in every series. That’s exactly what you would be doing starting any of your current options. Joba Chamberlain is not going to get the job done. The kid isn’t mentally or physically up to the challenge. Anyone who is holding out hope has a better chance of running into the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus these days. Scariest thought the rest of 2009 for a Yankees fan: Down 2-1, on the road, and Joba Chamberlain pitching. Enough said.
Great idea by Neyer.
Great idea by Neyer? I don't think so. I would say terrible idea that makes no sense.
I know Chamberlain has been awful for a while now, but to bluntly say "Joba Chamberlain is not going to get the job done" is silly. Says who? How do we know that for sure? Is Silva Carnac the Magnificent with a crystal ball that allows him to see into the future? How do we know Chamberlain will be a terrible playoff starter? Or, that Hughes would be a lights-out one? Or, that there is even time to stretch Hughes out if the Yankees wanted to?
Here is what we know about Chamberlain. He is a good young starting pitcher who was performing well until the Yankees -- concerned for his workload -- starting messing with his rhythm. Additional time between starts, which had to contribute to some inconsistency. Now, shortened spring-training like starts in which Chamberlain knows he won't be able to get a win.
Can you blame the guy for not being sharp? Or, sub-consciously not being as locked in for a start in which he knows he can only lose? We know Chamberlain thrives on emotion, and when the 'W' carrot isn't there it would be hard for anyone not to feel a little letdown.
The Yankees are protecting Chamberlain now precisely so that he can start playoff -- and hopefully World Series -- games in October. They have plenty of time to get him back on a normal routine and get him right for the playoffs.
Here is what we know about Hughes. As Neyer indicated, and Yankee fans know, he has been absolutely dominant in relief. Largely because of Hughes' presence in the bullpen, teams know they have to beat the Yankees in the first six innings. Otherwise, it's pretty much ballgame over.
Take him out of the 'pen right now, who knows? Chamberlain might do the job, he might not. Brian Bruney, Phil Coke, Damaso Marte, David Robertson might to the job, they might not. The Yankees very well might be flushing the biggest playoff advantage they have right down the toilet.
Besides, we also have no idea if Hughes could actually be counted on to be an effective playoff starter. Remember, he had a 5.45 ERA before the Yankees moved him to the bullpen. And last season he was 0-4, 6.62.
I fully support Hughes being in the rotation next season, and hopefully becoming a long-time fixture for the Yankees. Doing it now, though, would be nothing short of foolish.
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Yea...
That would be pretty dumb IMO… I know its sounds crazy but why not leave them both in the pen and make it a six inning game? Just go with 3 starters the games are usually a few days apart.
by Yankz09 on Sep 8, 2009 11:31 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
if one of our starters is DEALING
then you don’t take him out after 6, you let him go as far as possible
just be wary of his pitch count, we don’t need any Pedro 2003 game 7’s because we wanted CC to throw is 130th pitch
by Brian5517209 on Sep 8, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I take issue with this quote
“The Yankees very well might be flushing the biggest playoff advantage they have right down the toilet”
If the Yankees win the World Series this year, how many innings is Phil Hughes going to pitch in the postseason? 10? 12?
They are easily the most well-rounded AL team heading into October. If they win, it will be due to solid starting pitching, offense, defense, and relievers. Phil Hughes is NOT the fine line between winning the World Series and not.
Yeah
The Yankees have the best record in all of baseball. They are going to finish the season 100+ games. We should completely change whats working!
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Sep 8, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
It just doesn't make sense
What would make sense is to get Joba off this set of the Joba rules and give him regular work. I understand why he is capped and to some extent agree in theory, but it is clearly messing with him. Let Joba have actual starts and let Hughes keep turning the lights out in the 8th. By the way anyone know what the majic number is now?
I think is 16 or 17 Mr.h.............Removing Phil from ther pen right now would be idiotic
Besides having a potent offensive lineup,there is another concrete reason the Yankees are 15-0 after 7th inning tie games……….Phil Hughes and Mariano Rivera
-I'm the straw that stirs the drink.........Then I drink the drink too.
by ReggieARodJeter on Sep 8, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
Why not?
I mean we do not really have much to lose. We have CC AJ and Andy 3 out of 5 is a win in a series. CC can and does pitch on short rest. Thats 4 out of 7, and that wins a series. Plus if we play at home and our bats are hot, we should be able to throw Nick Swisher ( who has an ERA of zero) and win. Our lineup without sitting our starters, has to be the worst nightmare for any pitcher.
Catch 22
There is no right or wrong answer. I do think Hughes has a better mental makeup than Joba. I think his time in the pen has taught him how to pitch and pitch aggressively. No one really knows until he takes the mound as a starter. I think over the off season if Joba does not perform well, they should re-evaluate who is in who starts and who sets up Mo. I agree with the above statements that you don’t change the plan now. CC, AJ and Pettitte are good for the Playoffs pending they are all on.
Shortening the game
would be a huge advantage come October. WIth Hughes and Mo, opponents only have 7 innings to beat the Yankees. So that makes beating CC, Burnett, and Andy much harder. Rather take 3 of 4 than to mess with success.
I’m also not a big fan of making late season changes. Remember the Sheffield experiment at first base back in ’06? He then batted .083 in the series against the Tigers.
Rubicant – Hughes, a better mental makeup than Joba? What the heck has Hughes proven as a starter for the Yanks? Nothing. He’s dominant in the pen just like Joba was.. I totally agree that Hughes should stay in the pen and not moved for this season. BTW, moving hughes to the rotation does not gaurantee he will be good as a starter. The yankees will be weakening the bullpen and the rotation with that move.
Joba vs Hughes - The Mental Aspect
Granted, the stats are very similar (2007 Joba and 2009 Hughes) but based on the fact that Hughes has failed already and was able to come back from his poor starts where Joba has started on the top of the world and has tumbled down since.
Obviously, Hughes is staying in the bullpen
Because on September 8th, you don’t fix what ain’t broke in advance of the playoffs.
Joba hasn’t exactly pitched horribly – most teams would love to get a league-average ERA and 7.7 K/9 innings from their 4th starter; remember that guys like Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre are the 4th starters on some teams. He’s shown flashes of both brilliance and non-brilliance, but find me a playoff team in either league with at 4th starter that’s substantially better.
Hopefully the Yankees use Hughes wisely this postseason – i.e. for more than one innings and on consecutive days, when needed.
I don't think
Hughes hasn’t necessarily redeemed himself as a starter yet though. He showed potential when he was asked to start in May, but we didn’t see enough to make a solid judgment.
In Joba’s defense, Hughes had his time to start in 2008. And Joba has been toggled way more than Phil has or was in his role with the team.
With that said, IF IT AIN’T BROKE, DON’T FIX IT.
-I'm the straw that stirs the drink.........Then I drink the drink too.
Toggled?
2010 Hughes is going to be scruntinized even more than 2009 Joba. I think Joba might, might have a slight edge, talent wise but Hughes is going to be more successful long term. I think his body and his mechanics are going to support a longer career.
Hughes will stay in the pen
No way Girardi is dumb enough to make the switch. Hughes + Rivera is like Rivera +Wetteland. It’s tough to win if you only have 7 innings to work with. If Sabathia and Pettit can keep pitching like they’ve been pitching and Burnett is the good Burnett we will win the World Series.
My personal opinion
Is you throw Joba out there for the rest of the regular season. No innings limit, stretch out his arm. If he can pitch 5-6 innings and give up 3 or less runs each time he starts for you in the playoffs. If you go over his innings limit by the end of the post season you soak his arm in virgin goats blood and have it massaged 10 hours a day by masseuse/strippers during the off season.
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Sep 8, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions
Joba to the pen isnt over? haha
Let Hughes pitch 7 and 8 to get more out of him. Rest Joba up, give him short starts. Is IPK ready to jump into the pen?
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
IPK?
The guy hasn’t pitched in a game yet.
by Ed Valentine on Sep 8, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh. Shows how closely I follow the minors
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
Um........
Hughes sucked as a starter………. He was horrible. Worse than Joba.
6.62 in 2008 season. Started 8 games.
Joba has shown the ability to start well…… Give him some time to develope. He’ll be fine.
Joba was also better as a relief pitcher than Hughes too… thats what makes it debatable.
this is just retarded
You don’t mess with the chemistry of the team a month before the playoffs. Yeah joba has been bad, but its not his fault that they are jerking him around. Joba will be fine when he’s let go, and Phil needs to stay in the pen. The guys is lights out and the bullpen is very important in the post season. I’m pissed were even having this discussion! Don’t mess with success!
by swanny4eva on Sep 8, 2009 5:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Our record
since Hughes was put in the bullpen is reason enough to keep the status quo.
Move Ace To Start....
Ace has more wins than Joba this year…. And he pitches in Relief.
Mitre and Gaudin should move to the pen.
Why is everyone so obsessed with Joba in the pen?
Huhges future is Joba’s, in the rotation. We all (should) know that.
But right now? Why would you change anything? Kinda like Joba, who the hell says that Hughes will come out and be the same out of the pen?
What the f$%k is the internet?
Kris Kringle, Justin and Phillip
I just spoke with Kris Kringle and he said “Ho Ho Ho leave Justin and Phillip alone”! I said Mr. Kringle why do people keep F-in with Justin? He said Ho Ho Ho..don’t worry they are not getting any goodies for Christmas. BTW, Kris Kringle AKA Santa Claus uses his real name during the off season. He also chooses to call others by the real name so that’s why he said “Justin”.
What In the World was that about Mondoas?
-I'm the straw that stirs the drink.........Then I drink the drink too.
by ReggieARodJeter on Sep 9, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions

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