M's 7, Yanks 1: Shut Him Down
by jscape2000 on Sep 20, 2009 8:00 PM EDT
in Game Recap
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I'm not an alarmist. I'm not worried about the division lead, or the best record in baseball, or the historical position of this team. Those things are secure. But I'm a little alarmed watching Joba Chamberlain's post game conference on YES.
"My delivery was great."
"My fastball velocity was more consistant."
"They were good pitches, they just put some good swings on them."
"My slider was great."
"I had my pitch sequences working."
It sounds crazy, no? How could he think he has everything working? How could Joba possibly think that 7 runs in 2 innings was even remotely close to following any kind of game plan?
Are you ready for the answer?
Joba's pitching as well as he can. Because he's done. There are no bullets left in the gun, and running him out there is just cruelty on the part of Brian Cashman and Joe Girardi.
Quick note: pfx is the difference in the movement of the theoretical 'spinless' pitch and the actual pitch thrown. Basically, it gives us a zero to measure movement against.
Now, in that second inning when Joba had those pitch sequences working, his fastball was between 93-95 with 12-13" of pfx. His slider was clocking 86-87 with 3-6" of apparent movement. Look back at this Hardball Times article from last June:
Chamberlain’s [mid-90's] fastball comes in 10.8 inches higher than a theoretical spin-less pitch thrown at the same speed—almost two inches more than the average fastball. Whereas the average slider has about 4 inches of vertical movement on it, Chamberlain’s slider actually drops a bit more in comparison to that theoretical spin-less pitch thrown at the same speed.
Joba's pitches still line up with his historical profile, but he's missing that late life that keeps the ball off the sweet spot.
I'm not an alarmist. I think about the claims I make before I post them here. I've been thinking about this one since the Joba Rules started fluctuating in August: what we're doing isn't working, and it's time to shut down Joba Chamberlain for 2009. They did it for Phil Hughes for his first couple of professional season, and he's dominating the 8th inning. The M's did it for King Felix his first couple of seasons, and he's dominating the league. It's time to do it for Joba.
The 23 year old has thrown 46.1 more innings than he threw last season. The Yankees need to admit that Joba will not be starting any Game 4, and sit him down for the season. Give that arm 5 months to rest and let's see how the pitches move in February.
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well.. people should be worried about the yankees blowing thier divison lead..
A lil more then a week ago we were up 9 games.. now its down to five with 3 games against the angels.. who always give us a hard time in lala land and then 3 with the bosox who are playing pretty damn good right now and I think the divison will probably come down to this weekend
by Yankz09 on Sep 20, 2009 8:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
NO! fraking worrying helps nothing
Frakin Mo gives up one frakin HR to frakin Suzuki and it’s the frakin end of the frakin world.
Talk of blowing the fraking lead is for losers.
The Yanks won’t win every freakin game,
but they’ll win enough.
by Peter Lacock on Sep 20, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Having you’ve taken a look at who we have left to play compared to who the red sox have left to play?
by Yankz09 on Sep 21, 2009 1:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
so....
Yanks need to worry about themselves and win.
Doesn’t matter what the Pissants do as long as the Yanks win.
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 21, 2009 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions
well on the bright side
how bout the pen throwing those shutout innings. that was exactly what we needed after joba pus us in a huge hole.
whats a signature
I agree.
Mitre should be allowed to start in Joba’s slot for the remainder of the season. He wasn’t half-bad today.
By the way...
Anybody watching the Cowboys vs. Giants game? Wow, Texas Stadium is a behemoth. They might as well have rhinestones on the Dallas uniforms.
Yep watching..
Giants offense is looking pretty good. Plaxico who?
by Yankz09 on Sep 20, 2009 8:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Has anyone listened to Joba this year?
He says this after every bad outing. Needs to man up. He seems like a spoiled kid who feels he can never do wrong. Someone needs to get this kid under their wing.
its probably
Because yankee brass has filled his head with nonsense..
by Yankz09 on Sep 20, 2009 9:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Or he’s learned his Jeter lines. I’m fine. I’ll play tomorrow.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
That ain't good enough
better to worry about losing
by Peter Lacock on Sep 20, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I don't care what Joba (or any player) says
I care what he does on the field.
I’m on his side. I thought he threw all his pitches and attacked the zone with the exception of the BB after the IBB. I didn’t like the IBB and the 2-2 pitch was right there. Joba may be worn down, I can see that, but I don’t count these games. The Yanks have been coasting for a month. It’s like spring training for most of the guys especially Joba. I think he’ll be effective when they need him.
The only voice that matters is Girardi’s.
Sounds like IPK when he had his meltdown last year.
Jscape..you the man.
The world’s leading expert on Joba is Joba. But pride is getting the better of this young man. Lord know, he would rather set himself on fire than let the team down. He knows how his body is breaking down, right now, rather than holding up.
As a triathlete and endurance athlete, you just know..when you’ve had enough, and if the guy is burnt out, shut him down, +1! For this year. Joba rules should be thrown out…Our young arm needs time to rejuvenate his confidence and some time needed to heal and rest.
This goes against the prevailing old line thinking and puts us in a #4 hole, that is, without a bonafide starter. But, IF we win the division, it won’t matter. Girardi’s decisions are not nearly complicated, when one accepts the reality of not ‘having Joba’ in the starting rotation. Right now, he’s more a liability than asset in that role.
Plan B – we manage to play .550. 600 ball through next week, and presuming the RS lose once or twice prior to the weekend series, (which is presuming something). Here’s the lineup vs.Tigers, without Joba.
CC – Game 1
AJ/Andy – Game 2
AJ/Andy Game 3
And note to Cashman: Take the loss, put Joba down, for now and don’t risk this young man’s future.
Since your legacy is based on this year’s success and has to do with how well your nurtured young, home grown arms
perform on a bigger stage, select one or two others. possibly Kennedy, or Towers, from your cadre of pitchers.
Shutting Joba down is the right thing to do.
ejs
Yea,
Im tired of this. Shut him down, cuz he’s shot for the year. Consider the 46 innings him being stretched out……
And I think he may be on a limit next year too, kinda like Bucholz on the Red Sox (who sucked in first full year starting too you know…), but more like 180 innings.
So if he is, Yankee brass, can we please get the damn limit out of the way early on? No one cares if a guy can pitch all he wants (5IP 100 pitches….) in April if you’re gonna do whatever the hell is going on now. Same thing with Hughes.
Limit them in April and May. Let them do whatever they can in August and September.
What the f$%k is the internet?
joba
bullpen like he should be hear that cashman joba to bullpen
BIG YANKEE FAN,FROM MASS. HAVE TO PUT UP WIYH ALL THESE HOLE SOX FANS
Pressure
The Red Sox, like it or not, are putting pressure on us. What looked like a cake walk to the division, suddenly, could be in danger. All of a sudden, this week is full of land mines. I think the Yankees will focus and take care of their games. Fact is the Sox need to make up 4 losses with 14 games ( for them) to go, that’s a pretty tall order ( barring a complete collapse by the Yankees) Frankly, if the Yankees collapse, they don’t deserve the division anyway. I don’t think they will, but the fact is, if they win tonight they have a playoff berth locked up. So let’s win tonight and go from there.
I agree...
Shut him down.
The only thing that worries me is a lack of a #4 going into the post season, but with any luck they’ll only need three anyway.
I would love for this division to get sewn up ASAP so they can start pulling the big three out after 5-6 innings.
I think we should be friends.
I wrote a very similar article without knowing of yours.
http://www.lennysyankees.com/2009/09/its-time-to-shut-down-joba-chamberlain.html
I’ve been thinking about this idea since his plan got revamped too. He’s simply done.
Just a thought
If the Angels series goes badly ( 1-2) or (0-3) guess who would be in line to start Saturday’s game against the Red Sox? Just looking down the road a little.
It is really hard
to watch this once so dominant flame thrower struggling so mightely.I guess by his comments afterward,his confidence is not suffering.Wish they would end his and my agony already.Like it or not he is done and there is no sense in burning him out for yrs to come.Even if he can’t transition to a starter you still have a bonified closer in the making.Alot of upside there to lose to stupidity.
by cashman bashman on Sep 21, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
Joba is starting in the playoffs...
No matter how poorly he pitches the rest of the season. When the Yankees didn’t acquire a starter to fill Wang’s spot before August 31st and didn’t move Hughes back into the rotation, they were deciding that Joba was going to start at least 1 game in the ALCS and at least 1 game in the WS. There’s no way around it. We can’t use a 3-man rotation in the ALCS and WS because our 3rd starter is 37 years old with a sore shoulder. Sergio Mitre is an abomination. Chad Gaudin’s only redeeming quality is that he’s not Sergio Mitre. The Angels/Red Sox will eat those guys alive. It’s going to be Joba, like it or not, so hopefully he can give us 4-5 solid innings in each of those games.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Sep 21, 2009 2:02 PM EDT reply actions
Hopefully and October don't sound good
in the same sentence when you are talking about the Yankees and their pitching. Hopefully no one gets to CC, hopefully AJ doesn’t implode,hopefully Andy is ok,hopefully Mo is dominant………..See what I mean? Shut Joba down. Enough is enough.
-I'm the straw that stirs the drink.........Then I drink the drink too.------You're Welcome.
by ReggieARodJeter on Sep 21, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
I like this
I am also a Joba believer and think he will be a starter in the future but this post made a lot of sense to me. For some reason it hadn’t occurred to me that he was spent. I’d be fine with shutting him down as long as Andy can pitch well tonight.
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