Did Cashman mess up?
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Sep 10, 2009 3:41 PM EDT
24 comments
All the Joba talk recently brings up an interesting question. At the beginning of the season, the Yankees' plan was to have Joba build up his innings and then move to the bullpen in August while CC,AJ,Wang and Pettitte manned the rotation. If Wang hadn't gone down Joba would be pitching in relief now instead of making 3-inning starts. But Wang did go down and now we're left wondering if Joba can handle game 4's after being messed around with for the last 2 months of the season.
So back to that question. Did Cashman make a huge mistake by not acquiring a compitent back-end starter before August 31st? Jon Garland is the obvious guy since the Dodgers got him for nothing but I'm sure there were other guys being dangled out there who weren't signed for 2010 as well. Hopefully Joba pitches a couple of good games in October and this doesn't come back to haunt us.
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John Garland is pitching
in the NL West. I don’t need to say anymore.
by NumberSeven on Sep 10, 2009 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+10
none of the rentals we would have gotten would have been an improvement.
And mind you, he did get Gaudin, who is proving to be about as good as we could have hoped for.
Did he screw up as of now? Nope.
Facial LaFleur, total facial.
Garland
Garland’s pitching in the NL West right now but he was a solid, albeit unspectacular AL pitcher for 7 years. He had a winning record, a career ERA around 4.50, won 18 games twice and pitched well in the playoffs in 05. That’s not Gaudin or Mitre. To me the question is what’s better, Garland in game 4 and Joba in the pen or post-innings limit Joba game 4. Cashman obviously felt the latter so we’ll see what happens.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Sep 10, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The mistake was with Joba
I wish they would just let him pitch. But obviously that isn’t going to happen. But even when they are limiting his innings they have screwed up.
Why is he pitching on an innings limit right now? If there has to be an innings limit, it should have been in the first half of the season, not the second half. Then in the second half he could have pitched as much as he wanted, going every fifth day like a normal starter and getting in a rhythm for the playoffs. It’s difficult for a starter to pitch well if he isn’t in rhythm. I hope all this works out, but the Yankees should have had him pitching out of the bullpen or had him on this “innings limit” to start the season, not end it. Hopefully he can finish the season strong and give us a little bit of hope for him in game 4, but he’s been awful lately, and at the wrong time. And for that, the Yankees deserve just as much blame as Joba gets.
The mistake from Joba...
was the fact the Yankees expect to play in October. They should have shut this guy down in the beginning of the season…or pull this 3 inning crap then. Now they are trying to limit him all while keeping him ‘ready’ for the playoffs, and it just doesn’t seem like he’ll get around what they are doing to him.
And no, Cashman did not fail at all in his bid to get a starter at the 8/31 deadline. Id say Gaudin is damn near ‘perfect’ for his role of spot starter/long reliever/Aceves.
Garland would have been fine, but again, what was the cost? AJAX? When audin is doing probably as good as Garland would have and we got him for nothing?
No, Cashman made another damn good move..
What the f$%k is the internet?
They did that last year, remember?
They started him in the bullpen and when he joined the rotation his shoulder bothered him. That was the cause of this years limit. You can’t start slow because you can’t predict what will happen. It had to be done this way, there is absolutely no other sensible choice.
by Peter Lacock on Sep 10, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda..............
But Don’t Need To…
by Gangsta Yanksta on Sep 10, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions
Joba is healthy right now PERIOD
I’m fine with Cashman’s handling of Joba. Perhaps he never lives up to his early career hype but I would much rather have a healthy, competent pitcher who will be around for the long haul a few years down the road.
The Yankees are in first place and owner of the best record in baseball. Why second guess Cashman?
do you have a link for that 'plan'?
i dont recall Cash ever saying Joba would move back to the pen. afaik, the plan was to have him start all year and limit his innings by skipping him on occasion (which was then altered to instead have him throw fewer ip/start).
If they want to make Joba a starter then let him pitch like a starter, meaning, throw until you need help from the pen because you are no longer effective. Simple. Why do they have to limit his innings and pitch count? What is he, 23 years old, about 240 pounds? He needs to be handled like a baby? Put him on the mound and let him pitch until he drops, just like any other starter. Do you see kids in college on a pitch or inning count? Nor are there any others in MLB that I know of. What are they “saving” him for? And on top of everything, he has just been terrible lately.
I suggest to everyone that doesn't understand
or doesn’t know why the Yanks are limiting Joba’s innings, google the Verducci Effect and all your questions will be answered. Everyone that has been paying attention all along knows why and understands the plan. This is a tired old subject and it will keep coming up with every young pitcher.
Also a consideration
Is what Cashman was asked to give up in return. The yankees are routinely held up in trade as some sort of whale in a poker game or something. Teams demand the world from them and then turn around and trade Johann Santana for Fernando Martinez and spare change. Obviously any deal would not involve the amount of players the Santana trade involved but all the same, I’m sure he wasn’t willing to trade his young stars for what would turn out to be a 2 month band aid.
i think
we should all stop complaining
we are going to get 100 wins
what else could you ask for?
if at the beginning of the season someone was to tell you that the Yankees would be a 100 win team but didn’t tell you how, you would have took it
i don’t mind the Joba handling because it hasn’t hindered us from getting the W
You do not have to use 4 pitchers,I seem to recall Arizona little leagueing everyone in 2001 with 2 guys and a third just so the other 2 could rest.Not to mention the 100 other times I have seen 3 man rotations in the playoffs and WS.If Andy was not the age he is I bet they would not even think about a 4th.CC is better on 3 days anyhow.
by cashman bashman on Sep 11, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions
When I looked at the schedule last week, the World Series is the only time I see no way to maintain a 3 man rotation.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I agree with Peter L
Tired argument for media types that would rather drone on about a near last place team in Flushing or a young pitcher who has had arm problems before and is being taken care of in a way that hopefully doesnt end like some other big name phenoms in the past such as Prior.. Personally I hope Ca$h goes out and signs Lackey in the offseason as Sean23 makes a great pt as well.. Remember Schilling to the Sox .. The Dbags traded him for Fossum and a bag of potato chips but the Yanks had to give up Nick Johnson and Soriano..
Boys, a 100 win season means nothing if you don’t win the World Series and doing that is done with pitching. We got CC, Petite, maybe Burnett and of cours Hughes and Rivera. After that, up come the questions. Right now, Joba isn’t getting it done. Robertson shows some promise, Coke is unreliable and Bruney flat out sucks. The others aren’t worth mentioning. Can we win a championship witrh that, I don’t know. I hope so. You tell me. Remember, we will not be facing the likes of Balt, Wash, the Mets and KC. We’re talking more like the Cards, Philly, LAD and of course the Angels who own us. Yes, I do worry about pitching.
I love joba and I want to see him become the next Yankee allstar ace as much as anyone else but it’s hard not to look at him right now like he’s upside down. I think he could be equally as affective as a starter or in the bullpen and wherever he is I’d be excited to have him pitching for the team. But it seems like just as he hit his stride as a reliever they moved him to start. Then just as he started getting comfortable starting they cut his innings. The next step in that progression would be for him to get comfortable pitching 3 innings at a time and then what? they’re going to expect him to go back to pitching 7 innings comfortably? In the playoffs no less? i say bullpen or starter or whatever. Either way, pick one, let him get comfortable in his roll and then leave him alone
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