The Ted Williams Question: Nick Swisher Edition

by jscape2000 on Aug 14, 2009 11:00 AM EDT in Analysis Comment 18 comments

One of the classic critiques of Ted Williams is that a hitter that powerful should swing the bat more and walk less.

There's a chicken and egg to this: he's a great hitter because of his reputation for only swinging at strikes and because he gets himself into hitters counts.

So I'm curious where Yankee fans stand on this topic considering the Yankee most likely to walk, Swishalicious.

Here's a hitter who is incredibly disciplined; he's always willing to pass the baton. He's also a hitter who struggles to make contact, but when he connects drives the ball.

Some numbers:

Swings at only 34% of pitches thrown. Compared to 40% for Tex and for 42% for Posada.

Contact on 78% of his swings. Compared to 86% for Jeter and 91% for Cano.

Of the pitches he's seen this season, 47% were in the strike zone, compared to 49% for Damon and 47% for Melky.

Do you wish Swish would swing more, either by flexing his muscle or shortening his swing to make more contact. Do you think any AB that's not an out is a good AB? Or do you think Swisher's approach at the plate is just fine?

Poll

What would be your advice to Swisher?

Papa Bear: You walk too much

61 votes

Mama Bear: You need to walk more

57 votes

Baby Bear: You walk just right

679 votes

797 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

the more pitches Swisher sees

the better

by Brian5517209 on Aug 14, 2009 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I call him the Count

cuz he counts pitches every AB. He knows that too and that’s why he swings at the first or second pitch sometimes.

I have no problem with what Swisher’s done. His plate approach works just fine for him; he’ll be ending up with 25+ jacks and 75+ RBI as long as he doesn;t go into a slumber, or maybe more if he goes off again.

If Cano and Swisher were on any other team, Robby would be leading off and Swisher batting second. They are almost ideal 1 and 2 hitters……..tho not as ideal as Jetes and Damon.

…..another amazing stat for Cano, 91% contact on his swings? If Cano would bat his career average for when he has RISP, he’d have 100RBI’s already.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 14, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1 (mostly)

Agree on Swisher about 95%. He makes pitchers work, he doesn’t swing at ball four very often, he keeps rallies moving, and he has enough pop that the opposing team can’t take him for granted.

Where I disagree with Bradshaw is on Cano/Swish as a 1-2 combo. Don’t let Cano’s troubles this season with RISP affect your judgment. With his power, and lack of speed (4 SB in 9 attempts!!!), he’d be wasted in the 1 spot.

by waw on Aug 14, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

all Im saying

is given that Cano is .368/.402/.998, he’d be a perfect #1 cuz he wouldn’t have to steal (cuz he’d be on second already with a 2B). Jeter is .332/.396/.879, so he obviously is fine too, but Robby’s better.

What better way to guarantee you get that Robby than bat him leadoff?

Swisher gets on with his walks, that would have 2 people on for Tex. I kinda don’t like Swisher in the #2 tho cuz Swisher sucks with RISP too, but not as bad as Robby.

Of coruse, everyone should stay where they are. But its just been ridiculous how good Robby is with no one on vs. anyone one, not just RISP.

http://www.greenpacks.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/pitbull.jpg

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 14, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Swisher and swinging

The reason taking a lot of pitches works for Swisher is that he isn’t a very good hitter. The fact that he walks a lot makes him a decent offensive player whereas if he was a free swinger he’d be Mike Cameron without the defense. It was frustrating back in 02, 03 when Giambi would look for walks with RISP because we were paying him $120 mil to be a run producer, not a table-setter, but Swisher’s a role-player and his ability to be selective at the plate is probably his best asset as a player.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Aug 14, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No.

The fact that he works counts and is selective at the plate is what makes him special. Swinging more often would only lead to a fall in both BA and OBP.

by SignPost on Aug 14, 2009 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ill take any AB thats not an out. If you are going to strike out, battle and make the pitcher throw as many pitches as you can. As long as youre not popping out on the first or second pitch Im cool with it.

by ryanwk628 on Aug 14, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Chicks dig the long ball...

…but I will never complain about anybody who’s will to work the count and take walks.

Did I just make it sound like I’m a chick?

by NumberSeven on Aug 14, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

do you dig the long ball?

http://www.greenpacks.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/pitbull.jpg

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 14, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i kinda do...

but not as much as i dig being up six in the loss column.

by NumberSeven on Aug 14, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think ryanwk628 put it best – I’ll take any AB that’s not an out.

Making an out is bad. Not making one is good. Granted, I understand sac flies, moving the runner, and other “productive outs” are useful, but they’re not as useful as hits and walks. (sorry Joe Buck, Tim McCarver, and Mike Scioscia).

I don’t think Cano really cuts it as a leadoff hitter – he doesn’t walk much, he doesn’t take many pitches, and he’s not really “fast” – you probably have to do at least two of these well as a leadoff hitter. He is a good counterbalance against some of the more walk-happy players in the lineup, though, and in the end, I think it’s all about balance. Two hitters like Cano and Swisher have very similar OPSs – .865 for Cano and .846 for Swish – but they get there in completely different ways. You don’t want to turn into the Phillies of a few years ago (or the Yankees of a few years ago) who had three nearly identical hitters batting in order – Bobby Abreu, Jim Thome, and Pat Burrell. It was usually either a walk, strikeout, or homerun from all three of them.

by 3460kuri on Aug 14, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

my only reasoning for Cano batting leadoff

(not while Jete’s is still alive tho, he’s been very good for leadoff this year) is the fact that Cano is a different player simply with 0 outs, no one on, no pitches (first pitch..) and simply leading off an inning (Cano’s OPS for leading off an inning is 1.216).

I think I’ll repeat that. Cano leading off an inning has an OPS of 1.216. This is in 108 PA too, not huge sample, but enough. (Jeter is .916 leading off innings, .823 leading off games)

The guy is simply a ridiculous hitter when there are 0’s on the basepaths and the outs or even pitches column.

Again, I don’t want to change the batting order cuz its working. If anything, I would like Cano’s brain rewired a bit. Kinda like last season where he was atrocious for the first half, then looked like the normal Robbie again in the second half.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 14, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's had success in his limited ABs in the #2 spot, as well.

Makes sense: high contact lefty hitter, and with some pop to boot. Be interesting to see where Cano continues to sit in the lineup over the next few years. I’d love to see him in the #2 spot if he can hit consistently there (ahem RISP ahem).

by dzawaki on Aug 14, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One thing that doesn't show up in the stats

is the way that patient, selective hitters like Swisher can wear down a pitcher over the course of a game, even when they don’t get on base. Making pitchers throw a lot of pitches early is an underappreciated skill in its own right.

Drawing a BB is a skill unto itself. Swish can work the count in a way that a lot of batters can’t. I wouldn’t change a thing in his approach.

by django48 on Aug 14, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd ask him to shorten that swing ...

He should be making more contact than he is …

Otherwise, I love him.

by .ryan on Aug 14, 2009 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not much to complain about with him

I wish he had a higher BA to show for the great discipline though. But then again, Giambi had a great eye as well…….and he swang for the fence just about every single time. I sat close enough to feel a breeze from a swing once I swear!!……. I found this stat to be very intriguing:

Contact on 78% of his swings. Compared to 86% for Jeter and 91% for Cano

I wouldn’t have thought Cano makes contact that much more than Swisher.
But I do appreciate what he brings to the batter’s box. Pitchers get antsy and make mistakes in lengthier counts in appears. Now what if ARod had Swisher discipline? Anyone got those numbers? % of contact, etc,etc?

by ReggieARodJeter on Aug 14, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Crazyankee chic, is it possible you could find the stat representing how many first pitch strikes the yankees take without swinging?…especially swisher…I understand plate discipline and hitters counts but….I would even theorize that cano makes so much contact cause he swings more on first pitch strikes. Cause let’s be honest at the beginning of every pitcher-batter matchup..a strike is going to be thrown because the pitcher wants to get ahead early on the first pitch. So the yankees should be taking more advantage of that. With our line up….a fastball down the middle should always equal atleast a double. Now walks are good for your OBP. But I wanna see this lineup swing more. We have too much money invested to be drawing walks I want homeruns and doubles out these men.

by NYYWinsRings26 on Aug 14, 2009 5:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

To succesfully compare Swisher with the rest of the Yankees you’d need to compare him in every stat with those players you mentioned not only one stat.

For example:
He a lower percentage of swings than Texeira and Posada, but has seen less % of strikes than Damon, what i’d like to know is HOW many pitches of the total and compared with Tex and Posada since that was the initial postulate.

Maybe he swings at less pitches because he has seen less strikes than both Posada and Texeira.

Maybe he has a lower percentage of contact than Jeter because Derek has swung at less pitches.

I’m sorry but with parcial stats it’s almost impossible to say anything about a player.

Cheers

Mike

by Mikhel on Aug 14, 2009 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs