A Memory of Mariano
by jscape2000 on Aug 12, 2009 12:00 PM EDT
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When Mariano gave up his first run since June 12th last night, I was reminded of something my father said to me once, when I asked him how good he thought Mo was just after Mo took home the World Series MVP Award in 1999.
"Don't get too attached to these relievers. You'll be surprised by how quickly they flame out."
It's really too early to start award talk, but no one is on pace for a 20 win season. I'm not suggesting that 20 wins represents some kind of magic number. I'm also not daring to predict that one of Beckett, Halladay, King Felix, CC, Verlander, Jered Weaver, Buehrle, or Greinke won't go on a romp through the final 2 months and make an indisputable case for Cy Young.
But with Mo posting his best K/9 in the last dozen years, his fifth sub-2 ERA in 6 years, his 4th sub-1 WHIP in 5 seasons, on pace for his most saves in 5 seasons (47), and his usual unhittability, do you think this might be Mariano's Cy Young season?
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There are a few different pitchers that are CY-worthy
Besides Mariano. You’ve got Halladay, Beckett, Weaver & Felix Hernandez all of which could make great cases. Verlander has his moments, but there’s certain games where he just doesn’t have it. Greinke fell off after the ASB, which is hard on a kid w/a terrible offense in KC. Buehrle pitched a perfect game, but since then he’s gone 0-3 w/a terrible ERA. 11-6 hardly says Cy. I can’t give it to CC b/c he’s been mostly mediocre w/some patches of brilliance.
Surprisingly, Joe Nathan is putting up #s that could rival Mo’s. He’s got better ERA & WHIP, but not as many Saves or Ks.
For right now, I’d say Mo is definitely in the mix, but Halladay is just a beast. I’d have to give it to him if the season stopped now.
by BriGuy27 on Aug 12, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He should ...
but he wont which is a shame he deserves it he has been great this year and many other years he has deserved it multiple times. I wish they would give him the respect he deserves and let him win the award
by Nick C on Aug 12, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ask him again
I bet he has nicer things to say about the great man now.
On the other hand Cy Young for a reliever is very rare. I’d love it though!
If I's known I was going to live so long, I'd have taken better care of myself. Casey
by Cbeck3 on Aug 12, 2009 2:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Last night my father was saying that Mariano was "losing it"
I reminded him that Mo has converted something like 105 of his last 108 save opportunities.
His reponse?
Yeah, but he’s not as good as he used to be.
Sometimes I think my pop just wants to disagree with me :)
by YanksFanSince64 on Aug 12, 2009 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mo doesn’t have the same velocity he used to have, but his control and movement on his cutter are as good as ever, and that’s more important than losing 2 or 3 mph on it.
by Wraithpk on Aug 12, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mo has let in a few runs since 6/12
They just weren’t charged to him since the runners were inherited. Just a reminder since people keep throwing around the 6/12 date as if he has been flawless. Of course, that is all for naught since he hasn’t blown any saves in ages.
by sangreal on Aug 12, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mo for Cy Young would be lovely, but its probably not happening.
For several reasons.
First off, if Mo were to win a Cy Young it would’ve been in either 2005 or 2008, his two best statistical years. In 2005 he finished second behind Bartolo Colon (aka Arod’s b****). And last year, in what I felt was his best year (.67 WHIP and 77/6 K/BB ratio), he only finished 5th.
Second, the Cy Young award is for starters. I think only once (correct me if I’m wrong) has a non-starter won the Cy Young. If you want to give a award to a reliever, we have DHL Delivery Man of the Year (which Mo has won twice), the Rolaids Relief Man Award (which Mo has won four times), and some other less gaudy reliever awards.
Third, if a reliever were to win the Cy Young, he’d have to have a amazing, and I mean holy frickin spectacular, year in order to be honored so. Eric Gagne won it in 2003 with a 55 save, 137 SO in 82.1 innings, .62 WHIP, 1.2 ERA season. He struck fear into opposing batters like Randy Johnson used. If another reliever were to win it, it would’ve been K-Rod who broke the single season saves record last year.
The Cy Young isn’t a lifetime achievement award and saying that they should give it to Mo because of his great career is like saying the Phillies should keep Jamie Moyer in the rotation, it doesn’t make sense. Mo’s lifetime achievement award is the induction into the HoF and the respect of his peers and fans.
I did vote 25 percent though because who knows hahahh
by dahhnold on Aug 12, 2009 6:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cy Young Relievers
From looking over the Cy Young winners list. Did I miss anyone?
1974 Mike Marshall
1977 Sparky Lyle
1979 Bruce Sutter
1981 Rollie Fingers
1984 Willie Hernandez
1987 Steve Bedrosian
1989 Mark Davis
1992 Dennis Eckersley
2003 Eric Gagne
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Aug 12, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mariano, and the Cy Young
He won’t get it and won’t care at all if the Yankees win the World Series. The best thing about Rivera is he is not only a Hall of pitcher,but more importantly a Hall of Farmer as a human being through all his years in baseball.
by Yank7 on Aug 12, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that the "lifetime achievement" idea holds water
look at how PISSED people on this site were when Wakefield was on the All-Star Team because he was a sentimental “lifer” of the game.
If we then use the same argument as to why Mo should get a Cy Young this season because he has been so dominant for so long, while never winning a Cy Young, then we become as hypocritical as Red Sox fans. And that must never happen.
Do I love Mo? Yes.
Would I be thrilled if it happened? Yes.
Do I think he SHOULD win it this year? Probably not.
Do I think he WILL win it this year? Unlikely.
by Lord Duggan on Aug 12, 2009 10:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe that was a poorly explained thought.
I was thinking along the lines of Mantle’s 3rd MVP- an award you can make the case he deserved, and in a tight race past performance helped push him over the top.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Aug 12, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that, and maybe it potentially effects voters
but if it were me, I would say that the 2009 Cy Young Award is for the best pitcher in 2009 and that everything else is extraneous.
I think that that is the way that the award should be given out; however, past performances seem to have at least some influence on the voting. I think that the reason is because there aren’t enough “career” awards as big as a Cy Young. Voters would feel like Mariano Rivera has been dominant for years, but has never gotten a Cy Young award. This is probably his last chance. As such, they will be more inclined to vote for him.
Here is my solution: Encourage voters to focus ONLY on the year at hand in Cy Young voting. BUT, we create a new award. The Mariano Rivera Bad Ass Award, to be handed out every 3-4 years to the pitcher who has consistently been at the top of the game during that time frame. A similar Albert Pujols Bad Ass Award could be created for hitters.
I think that either Bad Ass Award would garner as much respect as a Cy Young/MVP Award, and Mariano would definitely have earned one by now.
Work for you?
by Lord Duggan on Aug 12, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Aug 13, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have become so freakin spoiled
because Mariano has been so great for so long. I also believe the Cy Young Award should not be a lifetime achievement award. I agree that Mo will certainly one day—hopefully as far into the future as possible—be a first ballot HOF. Obviously, there will probably be some schmuck who writes for some shopper paper in East BFE who’ll keep it from being unaminous.
"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel
by tnredneckyankeesfan on Aug 13, 2009 8:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Lidge or K-Rod (saves record) didn't win it last year
MO’s not winning it. MO might lead the league in saves and post ridiculous numbers for a closer, but he’s not winning. I still don’t know why Gagne won when he did.
There’s plenty of deserving pitchers like Grienke, Halladay, King Felix, Verlander, CC, Beckett.
Your right, no one is distinguishing themselves right now, but when you look at MO’s numbers as a closer, either is he…..Joe Nathan has been equally as ridiculous as MO, probably even better.
Right now, its Josh Beckett’s to lose. Leading the league in wins usually has some sort of merit for voters (like the AS game…), he’s also pitching extremely well and if he gets the Pissants in the playoffs, he wins.
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 13, 2009 9:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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