Thinking about Johnny Damon

by NumberSeven on Jul 8, 2009 5:13 PM EDT Comment 40 comments

In the midst of all the Yankees (Joba-Hughes bullpen/starter, Cervelli-Posada, A-Rod, Jeter at SS) banter, there's one subject I don't think I've seen much of (if any) this year- here or otherwise, and that's: What happens to Johnny Damon?

As he comes to the end of his 4-year $52M contract, I think back to his time in pinstripes as being solid. Although I've liked him- when I think back, he's been banged up quite a bit. And even seemed to be breaking down at times- which made made surprised when I looked back and saw that he's never played less than 141 games in a season for the Yanks.

Year					G		R				HR	RBI	SB				BA	OBP	SLG	OPS

2006	NYY	AL	149	115	24	80	25	.285	.359	.482	.841
2007	NYY	AL	141	93	12	63	27	.270	.351	.396	.747
2008	NYY	AL	143	95	17	71	29	.303	.375	.461	.836
2009	NYY	AL	78	61	16	49	8	.284	.370	.528	.898

(stats from Baseball-Reference.com)

He's having arguably his best statistical season, offensively speaking, as a Yankee. His BA is just about his career average, but he's slugging higher than ever (thank you new Stadium) and he's on pace to score more runs, and have more RBIs and HRs than he's had in his career.

Next year the Yanks will have under contract OF's Melky, Gardner, and Swish- add to the mix the Austin Jackson's and come-what-may FA's of the world. So where does that leave Johnny? What's reasonable to bring him back? (Or is it even reasonable to think about bringing him back?) A two-year deal at $7-8M per? One year deal? Less money? Will he take less years/money? I am sure some of these questions will be answered by the what the economic climate brings this offseason. If last offseason taught us anything though, we can't expect big numbers to be thrown around for guys in their mid-30s.

So I ask again- if it was up to you- what happens to Johnny Damon?

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I think that more than anyone, Damon has benefitted from New Yankee Stadium

and that he can be a .300 hitter with 25 HR power for the next few years. I have no problem with retaining him to play LF and DH. His fielding has always been relatively good, with the obvious exception of his little-league softball arm. I would be willing to pay 2 years, 16-18 mil to keep Johnny in pinstripes.

I think that having an outfield of entirely young, home grown, players in Melky, Gardner, and AJax, we can expect growing pains (see: Chamberlain, J). As such, it would make a TON of sense to have an extremely consistent veteran in the mix, especially since Johnny’s skill set resembles those guys.

by Lord Duggan on Jul 8, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Damon

has at the very least earned a new contract from the Yanks. I hope its a one year deal with a team option or something like that tho.

You compare him this year to potential FA like Matt Holliday? I’ll take Damon in a second over Holliday.

The other one is Matsui. What do you do with him? It actually depends on Jorge. Do they stick with 100-120 games at C for Jorge? Or do they go less and put him at DH more?

Its tough, cuz Damon AND Mastui are at the very least earning another year. People can talk about how other teams let players go when they get old, but if the guy still produces, why get rid of him?

The only worry would be if they go long term with Damon or Mats. They have kept relatively injury free this year, but they have been prone in the past of course.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 8, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed....

time to move on and get younger. We can’t have this many guys as DH’s and plus his arm is a liability.

by pedro316 on Jul 8, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Time to say goodbye

I like Johnny Damon, always have, even when he was on the Red Sox, but he’s up there in years, and the Yankees can’t hang on to him just because he’s having a great contract year. He’s turning 36 in November.

Posada can’t catch 125 games forever and will need to spend more time in the DH role, and one of the problems with the lineup over the last few years has been the lack of flexibility because of all the OF/DH types. Keeping Damon does nothing to solve that problem, because he can’t play the OF any more.

If they do bring Damon back, it can’t be for more than 1 year.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 8, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed....

time to move on and get younger. We can’t have this many guys as DH’s and plus his arm is a liability.

by pedro316 on Jul 8, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I could see

1 year with a mutual option and a large turndown value. He’s the left fielder unless the kids show they can really play, in which case Damon becomes DH/ tradebait.

I don’t think we’re really ready to turn the outfield over to prospects, especially considering how little thunder the Yanks would get with Gardner/Ajax/Melky.

Matsui has to go.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jul 8, 2009 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that simple on Mats?

I know he’s a DH and all that with Posada and Damon DH candidates.

But he’s probably gonna end up with 25 HR. Given no more IL, he’s gonna be in the lineup everyday so while he’s only got 39 RBI’s, he’s got an outside shot at 100. He’s a big RBI guy too, so Id say he gets there. And its really not like its all the new stadium either, his OPS is HIGHER away from the new park.

You just throw away a 25 HR, 100 RBI, .870 OPS guy? Considering missing all those games in IL, and of course having to sit when other guys need a DH, those are pretty big numbers no?

You just brush that aside? Of course it depends on that length of contract, but Id give Mats a 1 year deal.

AJAX obviously should deserve a shot, but its really not like CF and RF have all-stars there already. Melky, Swish and Gardner all have their good points, but neither is complete. AJAX could beat out one in ST so that might be his shot.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 8, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matsui

He misses a month every year with injury and can’t play the OF. They need to forget about one-dimensional guys and get back to what won them World Series way back when, which is flexibility in the lineup and movable parts.

There’s a lot that can happen between now and then anyway, but you have to plan for Posada to DH at least 50 times next year, and probably more like 70. I’d rather bring Damon back than Matsui because while Damon is a bad outfielder, Matsui is worthless in the field.

Eventually you have to say goodbye to these guys. You don’t see the Red Sox giving new contracts to old geezers who can’t run 10 without their knee exploding.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 8, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chili Davis?

Cecil Feilder? David Justice? Remember THOSE guys??? Matsui is a powerful LH bat in the new stadium. Guys who can merely DH are not wastes of space. I want AJAX on the team too, but he’s gonna struggle while he shows flashes of his ability (just like that guy in rotation), so why not give him another year of seasoning while the veterans still get it done?

The Red Sox aren’t the all knowing geniuses their fans and some anti-Yankee folk make them out to be. JD Drew!? is who they signed to replace Johnny. Aside from having a better arm than Johnny, Im sure the Sux would love to have everything else he does better than Drew back on their team.

They signed Drew for 5 years and $70 million!!? So who actually made the right decision there?

The problem is when you sign guys like Damon and Matsui at this point in their careers to lengthy contracts.

You sign Damon AND Matsui for another year there is absolutely no risk.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 8, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chili Davis, Cevil Fielder, David Justice

Exactly.
If Matsui is willing to come back to be a bench player, then I welcome him back. I’ll give him $5M to pinch hit for one of the defense first guys.
But will Matsui really want to play at all, let alone play for the Yanks, for only 200-300 ABs?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Jul 8, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Justice, Chili, Fielder

Justice played the OF and carried the Yankees to the 2000 World Series. Matsui is not as good as Justice.

Chili was a switch hitter, much more versatile than Matsui.

Fielder played first base rather than Tino in the 1996 World Series, and was let go by the Yankees when he was 33 years old. How old is Matsui? Oh my, he’s 35.

Fielder also was acquired to provide a power bat in the middle of the order for a team that wasn’t hitting home runs. The Yankees have plenty of power in their order, they need some movable parts that aren’t so one-dimensional.

Listen, i don’t doubt that Matsui can hit the ball, but at a certain point you just have to say goodbye and get younger.

And let’s take the temperature on this when Matsui goes through one of his three week slumps when he does nothing but hit two-hoppers to the 2nd baseman.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 8, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jeez you like just arguing for the sake of it

Matsui played the field for most of his yankee career too. When Justice was 35!, he DH’ed 85 games.

The Yankees don’t need another switch hitter, they have 4 of them already.

And you know god damn well Cecil Fielder playing 1B is irrelevant. That;s like throwing Matsui back out there in LF right now. I don’t remember the reason, but given that Tino was a Gold-glover Id assume it was out of necessity, not cuz he actually could play 1B.

And you can quote this too. I don’t care when Matsui goes on his slump, I’ll say the same thing (of course it will look stupid too). Kinda like when ANY player goes into a slump. EVERYONE bashes them when they are slumping, I know a few people on PSA wanted Jeter’s neck a few weeks ago, and don’t forget how people already claimed Texiera a waste of money.

Is he one dimensional? In the field yea, he has no dimension. But you just don’t find bats like that growing on trees.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

...well maybe the bats grow on trees.

But he’s still a good hitter. He hasn’t regressed there in his time.

Id like a player that can play the field. But Id rather spend 5-6 Mill on Matsui than the Yankees go after Matt Holiday for 5 years $70 million and watch him become the next JD Drew.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 8, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fielder was a better defensive 1B than you remember

He was playing there because Tino wasn’t hitting and there was no DH in the NL games of the World Series. He made a few very nice defensive plays. Point being, he was actually able to play the field. Matsui cannot RUN, and even when he could he was a terrible outfielder. I don’t care that he USED to play the field, in 2009, and going forward to 2010, he cannot.

I don’t understand why you’re so attached to these guys. You act like Matsui is going to be able to put up those numbers you quoted every single year. His bat is going to get worse. It is a fact of life.

Posada will need to DH 70 games. If Damon comes back, he’ll need to DH frequently as well. Where does that leave Matsui? THERE IS NO SPOT FOR HIM ON THE 2010 YANKEES.

If he’s going to come back as a part-time player for a major salary reduction, fine. You keep pointing out guys the Yankees picked up to fill minor roles on the team, and then got rid of after 2 years or less.

And I don’t know where you got 25 HR, 100 RBI for Matsui. He’s on pace for the HR, but he won’t get anywhere near 100 RBI.

You’re just friggin’ attached to these guys and can’t say goodbye.

Now cue the other guy to accuse me of being a racist against Asians because I don’t want Matsui back.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I aint attached

I just don’t see a reason to get rid of him. Id have no problem saying goodbye if there’s no use for him.

Nor do I see a risk if its a 1 year deal to bring him back. Why the hell not? He struggles, you put him on the bench then he’s a valuable PH if it gets that bad, then you let go.

Posada will have to DH more of course. Will it be 70 games? I don’t know, it really depends on Jorge

Of course there’s a spot for him, just like there’s a spot for Damon. AJAX is waiting of course, but what’s wrong with having the insurance of Matsui and Damon on the team, especially if its only for a year.

There’s nothing wrong with being attached to players (no homo).

I hear a lot of that sort of thought with the Red Sux train of thought (and I aint including Matsui in this list) but in getting rid of guys like Derek Lowe and Johnny Damon, did they really gain anything?

Bringing guys back on a 1 year deal doesn’t hurt at all. Of course if the player doesn’t like that, then its a problem cuz I wouldn’t keep Mats for anything more than a 1 year deal.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 8, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hell yes the Red Sox gained something...

…they gained draft picks when those guys were signed by other teams.

When Damon left, they used the pick to draft Daniel Bard.

When Lowe left, they used the pick on Michael Bowden.

It’s not just about 2009, if the Yankees don’t let guys walk away via free agency and just let them wind their careers down to nothing, they don’t get extra picks.

Better to let a guy go a year early than a year late, especially if you can get picks out of the deal.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 8, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you have to offer arbitration to get picks

and if we offered Damon arbitration he’s make about 15 million next year >_<

by Brian5517209 on Jul 9, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

unless Damon or Mats have multi-year deals out there, like Damon and Lowe knew were out there when they left, what’s stopping Matsui and Damon from accepting arbitration?

And if you look at that, they god JD Drew and daniel Bard for Johnny Damon. I guess I do that deal, tho while Bard looks like the next Zumaya out there, Drew’s albatross contract looks worse by the day.

Michael Bowden and Dice-K for Derrick Lowe. Bowden (and Bucholz and Bard) might be killer B arms, but Dice-K was a $100 million investment who pitches more like Joba right now.

The draft picks are nice and you always look to the future, but you also have to factor in who they replaced these guys with, because you still would like that production. Not all draft picks work out like Bard, and I guess Bowden (tho like Bucholz he seems to be just another ingredient in their kool aid. why sign Penny and Smoltz when you have these 2?)

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 9, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Penny and Smoltz

Cost a combined $10.5 million. If they don’t work out, they scrap them and nothing bad happens.

You have to remember, before this season Bucholz was a major question mark because of a bad 2008. Bowden was still a year away so they found a couple of cheap stop-gaps to fill the bottom of the rotation.

You completely miss the point about the draft picks. Even if they don’t pan out exactly like you’d hoped, you can trade prospects away if they maintain even the slightest bit of promise. The Yankees just throw draft picks away like they’re worthless.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 9, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so its alright if the Sux

do it with Penny and Smoltz, but if the Yankees do it they are too sentimental with their players and they don’t know when to give up? Got it.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 9, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sentimentality

Is for romantic comedies.

The Red Sox took a chance with two pitchers for practically nothing. Someone once told me the value of a starting pitcher is much more important than a relief pitcher, how much more valuable are 2 starting pitchers than one injury prone 36-year-old DH?

But whatever, let’s just keep everyone regardless of the fact that their best days are WAY behind them because you like them and can make up stats that they won’t come close to reaching.

And by the way, the “Red Sux” thing is just f’ing juvenile.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 9, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Id take 2 injury prone

old geezer starters for the 5th spot in the rotation, but we’re not choosing one or the other.

I don’t even understand how its ‘sentimental’ in keeping your players. These guys are still very good at what they do, better than most or all of the replacements out there.

Is it so sentimental to keep Jeter, while he’s still at least the 2nd best SS in the AL? What about A-Rod? MO Rivera? Yes, best days are way behind them I guess, but there still get it done better than the other options.

And I could care less of what you think of me calling them the Sux. Click over to Over the Monster and tell them what you think of the MFY. That’s not why I do it, but I aint showing respect either.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 9, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jeter and Rivera

You said it yourself. Rivera is still ONE OF THE BEST CLOSERS IN THE LEAGUE.

Jeter is having his best defensive season in years, maybe ever, and is still a durable player who hits .315.

I don’t know how you can compare two lifetime Yankees who are super durable to Matsui, who is one false step away from his career being over.

You can’t keep Damon and Matsui. The Yankees won’t keep both of them, I guarantee it. Damon and Posada will probably have to DH around 100 games combined next year. That leaves about 60 for Matsui. If he wants to come back for a cheap contract to be a part-time player and pinch hitter, fine.

And I don’t care what Sox fans call the Yankees. We’re mentally superior to everyone that roots for that g’damn team, and I"m not going to sink to their level.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 9, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And that's why...

…they should have let Matsui go when his last contract was up.

The Yankees ALWAYS hang on to guys too long because they have the least creative front office in baseball.

It’s always, “hopefully this old geezer can stay healthy enough and produce his same exact numbers” instead of “let’s see if we can find someone on the rise to fill a part-time role we have available.”

It’s going to cost $20 million to keep Damon and Matsui around for another year, can’t they find a better use for HALF of that money somewhere?

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 9, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hindsight is 20/20

why give up Matsui? He wasn’t the DH only player he is now when he got re-signed.

They had no real replacement either, let alone a better one.

What can they use that $10 million on? Bullpen help? maybe, but they are gonna need a LF anyway, cuz I think AJAX is another year away. Melky and Gardner are battling each other, and while Melky in LF might make sense, that’s a big drop off from Damon in LF at the plate.

So who would they sign? Matt Holliday? THAT’s a joke.

They really don’t have much better options, cuz the options with the players on the team are damn good.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 9, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You two should get a room

And get all this pent up whatever it is outta the way.

by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jul 9, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

by NumberSeven on Jul 9, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not all about free agents

Maybe they could make a trade for a cheaper option? You know trades don’t always have to be taking on massive salary for an aging superstar, despite the Yankees basic organizational philosophy.

It’s not my job to make the trades, but the Yankees GM has his head so far up his ass he never seems to manage to find any value out there, so we end up paying over the hill guys way too much money.

And maybe they can use the extra $10 million to increase their scouting budget, since their drafting has been a joke for years.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 9, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Barren Farm

The reason the Yankees are forced to re-sign a guy in his 30’s that’s still productive like Matsui was in 2005 is that they have been inept at developing players. In the last decade that Yankees have developed 2 position players who are anything but mediocre, Soriano and Cano. It’d be a lot easier to not re-sign Matsui 4 years ago if the team could say “ok we have ____ to replace him.” They couldn’t.

That being said though I don’t think you could look at 4/52 at the time for Matsui as a bad idea. He was only 32 and in his first 3 years as a Yankee he was a consistent 25/100, he was clutch and he was never hurt. It wasn’t unreasonable for them to think he could make it to age 36 without breaking down as much as he has.

by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jul 9, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

errrrrrrr no

Johnny Damon is probably going to put up a broderline HOF career when it’s all said and done. these kind fo player don’t show up too often. This is almost as dumb as sayhing the Yankee system suck because they can’t replace Jeter and A-rod .

The Yankees probably could replace Matsui simply with Jesus Montero. but you’d have to factor in the time it takes for him to break in. which may be quick or it may be long.

by RollingWave on Jul 9, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed....

hate to say it but matsui’s time is over in new york and damon id prefer to see him go we must get younger! all he is tryin to do this year is uppercut swing every ball to the short porch in right to pad his stats and receive a fat new contract. id much prefer him to slap the ball the other way get those cheap singles and leg out doubles like he did in boston and the first two yrs in new york. if he doesnt hit one out its a fly out to RF or a weak ground out to 2nd or 1st. not the damon of old thats b/c he is too old. liability in the field. he has speed and character and knows how to play the game right and win, but guess what; we have more than a couple guys that can preach that also.

i think they will offer him 1 or 2 yrs plus an option. hed make a great 3rd/4th outfielder-bench player.

hopefully tampa lets crawford walk so we can grab him to play LF and be the true leadoff hitter we need, move jeter back to 2nd hole. if not crawford, holliday is still solid although he is havin an off year/hurt/oakland bad hitters park and ppl believe he is jusy a product of colorado. well the new stadium is a hitter’s park and is just as easy to hit one out here as it is in coors field. so i can see him being just as successful here.

some great FA pitchers out there this offseason if they dont resign with their current teams…..

by NF_nyy on Jul 9, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

J Damon

2 year with platton outfield in the last year have him teach the new kids the right way to play

by widowmaker6340 on Jul 8, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Goodbye Damon

Goodbye Damon! I think he did his time well with the Yankees, but his arm is horrible. Plus we will be fine with Melky and Gardner and Swish and rookie Jackson. I have kicked the baseball farther than he has thrown it. Seriously. He is an above average hitter, but lacks on defense. Defense wins games. Enough said. We willmiss you Damon, but he isn’t getting signed again, that would be stupid. Defense, defense, defense.

by McDaniel on Jul 8, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He could never throw

Its worked out fine for him hasn’t it?

He can still go get the ball as good as anyone on the Yanks too, so Id keep him for his defense actually.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bring back Damon

Try to bring back Damon for 1-2 years at a decent price—-give him more DH. Say goodbye to Matsui and have Jorge play more DH. Sounds like a plan. Bring up more youth if possible.

by Ragnar808 on Jul 8, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

need to get younger

no Damon
don’t drink the contract year cool-aid, look what has happened to Giambi this year after his decent year last year
but i DO appreciate what he has done for this ball club and he should have been an all-star this year
just more anti-Yankee bias by Maddon and Co

by Brian5517209 on Jul 8, 2009 10:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

not sure

how you compare Damon to Giambi. Jason had stretches of quality play, but overall was a train wreck in the Bronx. Johnny has has had a solid four years here. And his power numbers up this year because of the new Stadium, NOT because of the old “contract year” BS – which I don’t believe in anyway.

by NumberSeven on Jul 9, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm in the bye-bye to Matsui camp

I really think he should go back to Japan, where he is still beloved, and play out a couple of seasons as DH and fade into the sunset. It’s really too bad injuries have hampered him the past couple years, because when healthy he’s a consistently good ball player. I wish him the best, but I don’t see Pinstripes in his future.

I would like to see Damon back for one more year (perhaps with an option year), because I, like jscape, am reticent to hand over the OF completely to the kids at this point. Especially when we haven’t even seen Ajx at the ML level. Damon as a hybrid LF/ DH, with Posada in the C/DH slot is the direction I’d like to see them go next year.

by NumberSeven on Jul 9, 2009 12:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If

We can keep him on board for a role player type of contract I’m all for it. I’m not particularly impressed by either Jason Bay (terrible defense) or Matt Holliday (can’t hit outside of Coors) . I would like to see Carl Crawford. but even the Rays gotta pick up his 10 million options.

by RollingWave on Jul 9, 2009 2:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Damon and Matsui

The Yankees need to get younger and cut some payroll. both of these players made 13M this year. Of the two, I’d keep Damon. Matsui is a very good hitter, but is one dimensional. He can’t run, he can’t play the outfield, and as stated above, they are going to give Posada more DH AB’s as time goes on. There is no question that Matsui is finding his stroke, particularly at the Stadium, but the big question is what will either of them be willing to sign for. We can toss around years and numbers all we want. When the season is over, we’ll see what they want. Do they want to finish their careers as part time players? at reduced salaries? I would think both of them want one more big contract.

by fredny on Jul 9, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs