"If everybody is guilty, then no one is guilty." -Nietzche: Tonight's loss was a real team effort
by CrazyYankeeChick on Jul 11, 2009 3:37 AM EDT
in Game Recap
36 comments
Words fail me.
What should have been a can of corn of a Friday night game ended up being a maddening train wreck, delineated by gratuitous errors and a generally enervated attitude. Losing never gets easier to watch, but tonight's 10-6 loss to the Angels proved that indeed, it most certainly can get harder. And Joba Chamberlain, the most question-generating pitcher since Turk Wendell, demonstrated if nothing else, that holding his outings to the same standards as his 2008 reliever caliber is flat out ridiculous.
J-08 and J-09. They're two different pitchers. "Bullpen or Starter" polarization notwithstanding, Joba is a monument to unreliability, as he gave up 5 runs on 9 hits in yet another abbreviated outing (4.1 IP). I'm not going to throw him under the bus altogether, but let's call a spade a spade. Basically, Joba and his pitching role are in an on-the rocks relationship and are too scared to re-evaluate their status.
The Yanks staked him to a 3-0 lead in the first, with Joe Saunders continuing to battle his strike zone allergies. The first 5 innings of the "rubber match" was like watching 2 drunk guys competing for the same girl, with each team's offense acting as the sober friends who try to do damage control all night.
Gary Matthews' 1000th career hit put the Angels on the board in the 4th, but Alex Rodriguez restored the 4-run margin by effortlessly sailing a solo bomb into left center. Bobby Abreu knocked in Chone Figgins in the 5th to chip the lead down to 5-2, and A-Rod threw his hat in the "blow the lead" ring with a throwing error that allowed Juan Rivera to get on base.
But it was ultimately Kendry Morales' 3-run longball that sealed New York's fate. A tied score is deceptive...if you blow an early 4-run lead with one pitch, the game isn't even. You're down. The crack of that damning homer was just as bellowing as the resonating sound of 55,000 fans all jumping off the Joba bandwagon at once.
Figgins' triple put the Angels up by 1, which was really secondary to the ungodly maelstrom that was the Yankees' defense. Afraid of being eclipsed by ARod's 5th-inning error, Derek Jeter did a spot-on Castillo impression, passing up a chance to get out of the inning in favor of putting Mike Napoli on base. The fragile one-run game was then obviously pawned off on Brian Bruney, who wasted no time sticking the Yanks' comeback chances into a vat of acid. At least he's economical with his time, if not his runs allowed.
Once the game was at 10-6 thanks to yet another 3-run ding, this time from Erick Aybar, I fully expected the Yankees to go straight into Yankee Default Mode, hitting 2 to 3 teasing solo shots only to eventually lose by a deflating one run. The requisite "and that __-run shot in the __ is really looming large" commentary just makes the inevitable loss that much tougher to accept.
Mercifully, the game ended as thickly lopsided as it started, with Posada striking out to end the game. (How many times has that phrase been uttered this year? "Posada struck out to end the game." It's becoming as familiar a phrase as "inside-out jeterian swing.")
All you need to know about this game is that the Angels scored 10 runs on 13 hits while the Yanks got 6 out of 14. Two errors, though, so we beat them in that cell of the box score.
The Yanks may have needed to lose one, though. In a "Gene-Hackman-not-playing-the-stars-at-the-beginning-of-Hoosiers" kind of way. They've been relying heavily on momentum, which is compelling but will never replace effort...something the Yanks gave little of today.
Well, barring Jorge Posada's remarkable barehanded catch in the 8th after Figgins went all Sean Avery on him. Based on the look Posada shot him afterwards, I wouldn't be surprised if the Angels' 3B is nowhere to be found at game time tomorrow.
And in another part of California, Jonathan Sanchez was pitching a no-hitter-no -walker/perfect game marred by an error. ARod, Jeter, and Joba all owe Juan Uribe a debt of gratitude. I have no contemptous frustration left over for them, since I've heaped it all on the degenerate who stole perfection away from a team who was actually within spitting distance of it.
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Yankees need another starter.. Congrats to Sanchez wish I was watching… I actually thought timmy would be the first to throw one this season had one goin the night before..
by Yankz09 on Jul 11, 2009 5:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Words do not fail you CrazyYankeeChick
That was a wonderfully written recap and I enjoyed reading it.
I am the Iron Man
by 44FAN on Jul 11, 2009 5:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn, it was 4-1
Joba was looking pretty good, then again an error and a blast.
I suppose we’ll be better a nice little contingent of Joba to the pen bandwagoners until his next start.
Oh well. I ain’t gonna stop from saying he is a starter. 1/2 a season doesn’t say anything.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 11, 2009 7:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Something isn't right
I read an article a few days ago (I believe it was on northjersey.com) that pointed out something interesting and telling: In the series against Boston he only had two pitches that were swung at and missed. 2 pitches out of 91? That doesn’t sound right at all…
Could he be hurt? I just don’t see how you can lose every aspect of your dominance from just year ago unless it’s attributed to some kind of injury.
I hope he figures this out.
by Hood on Jul 11, 2009 8:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rivera vs. Joba
If you look at Mariano Rivera’s 1995 stats- Very mediocre as a starter…..the rest was history! Don’t mess with success and Joba had it as a reliever in 2008.
Artist merges the faces of the 2009 yankees- CLICK HERE
by kazanjianm on Jul 11, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Joba Rule
Time to admit he’s never going anywhere but Averagetown as a starter. I’m not interested in the "debate’ any more than you are – it bores me. FACT is he’s been brilliant sometimes over the course of 6 innings just a little less (alot lately) than he’s been near lousy over the same stretch. Does that make him the hard-charging, rally-round, young lion "legend’ he was becoming when he owned baseball’s seventh and eighth innings?
Uhhh no – it makes him Ted Lilly.
So Cash and Hank are hell-bent on turning Jobs into a Hughes clone (clown?) Stupid. You build your teams like a house – around cornerstone foundations in key points that can support the rest of the structure.
Joba was such a piece in the 7th and 8th. A stopper. A fixture. The bridge to Mo-where.
Now he’s just another back-of-rotation "win some / lose some" 4-man that just happens to play in a big market. If I were his agent I’d be making plans to get him the hell out of town before he has zero value.
Time to pull the plug on this experiment. The kid deserves better – and so do we.
by rosebud on Jul 11, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well then lets trade for him...
Yeah. Thought so.
by rosebud on Jul 12, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs aint giving him up?
Thought about that?
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 12, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching...Pitching...Pitching
I agree now that Joba needs to be a reliever. Just like everyone else is saying, he is brilliant one start, and can’t get out of the 3rd or 4th inning the next THREE or FOUR starts…The problem now is who else is going to start? Bad enough Wang has been terrible, he started to come around and now he is on the DL. According to Joe, Hughes doesn’t have the arm strength to start and we all saw how well Aceves did starting against the Twins…So, Joba has to stay in the rotation and get his head out of his you know what….The thing I don’t get is Joba’s quote after the game “my stuff has been the best it’s been all year”? really? and you get knocked around like a girl scout? If that’s your best stuff, then we are in trouble…With only CC, Burnett, and Andy, yet again we need more starting pitching…
by dkraft3 on Jul 11, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't know how he can say that
his velocity is down, his sinker stinks, and like you plainly pointed out, he is getting pounded. Period.
by Hood on Jul 11, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
that was more entertaining than the game
by 209209 on Jul 11, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's the principle of the thing
I don’t know why it hasn’t been said before, but it seems apparent to me that Joba Chamberlain’s role as a starter is a perfect illustration of the Peter Principle. He was an excellent relief pitcher, but he has reached a level mediocrity (if not incompetence) as a starter.
by Skycat on Jul 11, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't be silly
Don’t you know that 4.1 innings of horrid starting is better that 2 innings of lights out relief?
What kind of simple-minded tool are you not to realize that? Joba must start, for the good of the nation and all mankind.
Obviously, everyone with a brain and a pair of eyes can see what’s happening with Joba. His velocity is way down, his good slider is NEVER a strike and nobody is swinging at it anymore, and when he throws a breaking ball in the zone its a hanger that gets pounded 450 feet.
The only people who don’t see it are in too deep with the idea that Joba is going to be a top-flite starter, an idea that is waving hello from “never going to happen land.”
And that trip to the DL is in the mail, you can bank on it.
Meanwhile, the game was just another typical Yankees/Angels game, the same crap that’s been going on against them since 2002. Yankees make mistakes, Angels capitalize.
And if you can explain to me why Cody Ransom was playing AGAIN last night, I’d love to hear it. Why does Girardi have a hardon for this clown? Jeter is going to have Monday off, play 3 innings on Tuesday, then have Wednesday and Thursday off, did he really need a “half-day off” at DH?
I don’t get it, I really don’t.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 11, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His velocity is way down, his good slider is NEVER a strike and nobody is swinging at it anymore, and when he throws a breaking ball in the zone its a hanger that gets pounded 450 feet.
1. his velocity last night was 93.5 MPH. that’s hardly ‘way down.’
2. velocity as a starter will always be lower. true for any pitcher.
3. his slider was actually very good last night. iirc, he K’ed Juan Rivera twice on almost nothing but sliders. yeah, he hung one, it happens.
Don’t you know that 4.1 innings of horrid starting is better that 2 innings of lights out relief?
oh, sure, bc he’ll never give up a run as a reliever.
all pitchers, especially young’ns, have bad stretches. Joba is in one. good to see patience among fans.
by Travis G on Jul 11, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The proof is in the pudding
Last 7 starts:
35.2 IP (avg. of just over 5 IP per start)
47 hits
27 runs (20 earned)
5.05 ERA
1.77 WHIP
Same 7 game period, opponents are batting .311 with an .861 OPS against him. He is not getting people out. Period.
You want patience, I want signs of improvement, especially after his last start, and comments afterward about how he thought he pitched well and was happy he “still had a job.”
Every measurable statistic is going in the wrong direction for him. I never said he’d never give up a run as a reliever, but the Yankees are ruining him start by start.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 11, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He used to throw 98
To quote Michael Kay, “Where’s 98?”
by 209209 on Jul 11, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
every pitcher
loses velocity going from the pen to the rotation because you’re going multiple innings, not one. that’s where.
by Travis G on Jul 11, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His arm was treated like a wrapping paper cardboard tube that kids repurpose as a fencing sword.
That’s all there is to it. Everyone who keeps saying we should put Joba back in the pen (and I will say that I’m gone of them) isn’t considering the fact he’s the not the 8th inning Joba of last year. The Yankees took a lights out reliever—a ROOKIE, a YOUNG PROMISING TALENT—and yanked him out of that role, throwing him into a big league starting rotation. The physical strain that that put on his arm is wildly underestimated and overlooked.
At its basest level, throwing overhand isn’t even the body’s natural arm motion. It goes against what the muscles are trained to do which is underhand, so pushing the envelope in a situation where a 1 inning set-up man becomes a 5 inning starter is on par with taking a 50-yard dash sprinter, moving him onto the 5-mile race, and expect him to be just as dazzling and swift. When he isn’t, he’s thrown back in the 50 yard dash, but his muscles have been run ragged.
The Yankees should accept what’s happened., They gambled on this brilliant young gun, and lost big. They can try to work his arm back to snuff, but it may never be the weapon it once was. And it definitely will never be that if we continue to turn a blind eye to his troubles. At this point, it’s no longer a bulpen vs starter question. It’s a hurt vs healthy question.
And there is no doubt in my mind that Joba’s arm is pitching through progressively exacerbating damage every time he takes the mound.
by CrazyYankeeChick on Jul 11, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
whoa, hold on
Joba was a starter his entire college and MiL career and ONLY went to the ML pen bc he 1) had reached his innings cap, and 2) could help the ML team.
by Travis G on Jul 11, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
college starting vs MLB starting
arent really comparable. He went to the pen and his arm was conditioned and protected. he went from college/MiL starter to pen to MLB starter/. That’s going to wreak havoc on his mechanics and muscles.
by CrazyYankeeChick on Jul 11, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get the arm trouble bandwagon
has he complained about his arm?
Yes, history of arm trouble and last year he had it. I agree that he might have arm trouble in the future, but I also say that 100% of MLB pitchers will have arm trouble in the future.
His command is off, and it has been for the past 3 starts. Does that mean his entire future is shot and he will never show any ‘progress’?
How the hell does going to the bullpen and throwing 100MPH protect your arm? He’ll probably break down quicker doing that.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 11, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great play by Posada
and man does Juan Uribe feel horrible today. it was great that Sanchez’ dad was at the game.
by Travis G on Jul 11, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Arm trouble? Then take a haladay...
I think we’re suffering from a slight case of over potty-training here.
So now Jobs is wrecked and can’t go back to the pen because his arm is ruined? And you can’t put Hughes back in the rotation because, well, he’s been “re-tooled” to only throw 32 pitches?
Bulls-it.
As Nolan Ryan sez – "Don’t over think it"
Joba back to the pen and Hughes a starter NOW.
Look – these bucks are 23 years old!! You mean to tell me they can’t adapt? Of course they can — because the only way they got to the show was by S-T-A-R-T-I-N-G all their lives. I don’t think there is any arm trouble at all – because if there was I gotta believe someone in the organization would know it a helluva lot sooner than Pinstripe Alley – and if it were true you think Cash wouldn’t have pulled the string on the Hughes, Joba, Whoever, Whatever package that lands us Ray Haladay?
C’mon. Stop with the deathgrip on this sinking piece of flotsom already and lets start swimming to shore. The status quo is broken. So pick a path and act. Either make the switch – or pull the chain and bring in Doc Haladay so we can at least get past the Division Series the next three years – and maybe even re-learn how to beat the Sux and the Angels. In case you’ve been mesmerized by that Paul O’Neill bobblehead on your shelf — we haven’t won a damn thing in nearly a decade. I don’t need yet a third permutation of the HughesChamberlainKenedyblahblah “Pitcher Development Program” while we win 90 games. Not for these ticket prices.
by rosebud on Jul 11, 2009 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
IF Joba made it to the bigs as a starter
is 23 years old and can adapt, why switch to the pen?
They already made the decision of where they are. Hughes is in the pen cuz that’s where he’s needed. Joba’s got first crack at the rotation.
Maybe the reason we haven’t been able to win a damn thing as you say in a decade is because we fail to develop pitchers. Then when we try to develop one, the only thing that the fans seem to clamor for is to shove him to the bullpen.
2 loses in a row, and we’re a sinking flotsam? After 13/15?
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 11, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
13 of 15
So impressive, except when you consider they played a bunch of BS teams. The Mets are basically a Triple-A team, the Braves are trailing said Triple-A team in the standings, you could throw the Staten Island Yankees out there and they’d win 2 of 3 from the Twins who shit themselves whenever they see a Yankees uniform.
Am I supposed to be impressed because they won 4 of 6 from the Mariners and Blue Jays? Those teams are garbage, and we’ll never see them come October.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 12, 2009 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems the only way you'll be impressed by the Yankees
is if they sweep the Angels and Sux on consecutive 4 games series outs scoring them 100-2. Of course in there Joba MUST go 8 innings of negative 1 hit ball with 15 K’s and 0BB’s on 65 pitches.
So no one should be truly ‘impressed’ by beating these teams, but no one in their right mind should at the ship is sinking after they won 13/15.
Maybe if they won 12/15, i could say…FIRE GIRARDI! FIRE CASHMAN!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 12, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hilarious
I guess it’s not a big deal that the Yankees can’t beat two of the teams they’ll have to deal with in October.
If you believe (like I do) that the Angels are going to win the AL West, the Yankees could face them in the ALDS, and would have to find a way to win a game in that stadium.
And for the record, I’ll be impressed if the Yankees make the playoffs and win consecutive series against the Angels and Red Sox, which is probably what they’ll have to do to get to the World Series.
Tell me you’d feel confident about that.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 12, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt I feel confident about that.
If the Yankees win today they will be .500 against the Angels anyway if that means something.
If we start off in their stadium, that still means CC and AJ anyway and I like my chances there and then at the stadium I’ll take my chances there too given that they took 2/3 from tehm
As for the Pink Sox, there’s 10 more games to go against them. I’m sure no one wants to go 0-18 against them, but if they split those 10 games I’ll be fine with that.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 12, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dream on
Go ahead — stick with the Joba as starter dream and see where it gets ya. Waste all the time you want — and his. You are a dreamer if you think Joba Chamberlain is going to be anywhere near as dominant a starter as he was a reliever. But go ahead and stick with it — while you run this kid out of baseball in three years time.
We’ll wait for y’all — those in need of more proof. We’ll wait this season and next and the next after that — until he’s “packaged’” along with some minor leaguers in a 2011 trade to get, oh, Jon Leiber back.
Deathgrip + Flotsam = Drowned. (But we’ll wait….)
by rosebud on Jul 12, 2009 1:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Have to say I agree with everything
except the apocalyptic outlook for the yanks. They’re winning the WS this year. They don’t look like a WS team in the last few games but you can’t win them all. But they’ll win the WS.
by CrazyYankeeChick on Jul 12, 2009 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free - just to clarify
The season and the team are not flotsam. The “Joba Starts” experiment is flotsam. As for being impressed by the ’09 Yanks? No.
0-8 v the Boston Red Sox my friend. 0-2 v. Soscia this morning after two 4 run leads.
I’m supposed to be impressed because we win 13 of 15 against teams who traditionally use the All-Star break to plan their October family vacations? C’mon — that’s how the Yanks have made the playoffs every year this decade.
But to your point — YES — finishing the year from here on out with something “near” .500 ball against the Sox and Angels will get my attention. Until then, like I said, they’re just a highly paid traveling Broadway show with no heart.
by rosebud on Jul 12, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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