What can we take away?

by Travis G on Jun 4, 2009 4:53 PM EDT in Game Recap

First off, it was a great win - the Yanks 19th comeback victory, thanks mostly to a Melky Cabrera 8th inning homer and a Mark Teixeira three-run double.

But once we get beyond the warm and fuzzy feelings, how do we look at Wang's start today? Should we come away feeling good? Should we feel worse? You know you've had a bad season when five runs in 4.2 innings lowers your ERA. His velocity was good and his slider was decent, and he looked very good through two, but fell apart in the fifth.

To the 'Wang supporters': this is not meant to start another argument, merely a question I'm intrigued by: how many starts do you allow from him like today's before you remove him from the rotation?

Now back to our regularly scheduled game recap -

What was C.J. Wilson thinking, throwing an offspeed pitch to Melky Cabrera?! He's got a blazing fastball, why throw a lesser pitch? (Of course, we could ask the same thing of Mark Wohlers.)

If you use Brett Gardner to pinch-run, then let him run. He should have been stealing - he didn't and Tex grounded into a double-play. It also cost us Nick Swisher's bat for the rest of the game (who, by the way, is now clearly beginning another hot streak - he's going to be one of those players).

I know people will defend Robbie Cano, and I know that just because it looks like a guy isn't trying doesn't mean he's not, but here goes... he should have caught the ball in which Cervelli threw into centerfield. He kind of non-chalanted it, assuming he'd be able to catch it and tag the runner in one motion. He didn't and the runner went to third (fortunately he did not score).

Phil Coke hasn't pitched well so far, but he deserves credit today: 1.1 perfect innings with two strikeouts.

Poll

How many more poor starts should Wang be allowed before demotion to the pen?

0 - he should be gone right now

82 votes

1

107 votes

2-3

350 votes

4-5

55 votes

6+

33 votes

627 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

Can't be satisfied with Wang

Not a good stat line, but still he showed progress.

You have to give him at least one more start to show something. I know Hughes was dominant against the same team, but the reality is the Rangers are a good hitting team.

Hughes wasn’t much better in his last start than Wang, so I think you have to give the veteran and proven guy at least 1 or 2 more chances.

I didn’t expect a normal Wang outing this time out, I doubt anyone did. I would have liked to see better, but still he resembled himself somewhat.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 4, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions

Wang needs a chance to get his starter's rhythm back

His return to the roster was mishandled. His first two innings were strong, leading me to believe that he needs some more time to get his innings back up.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Jun 4, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions

I'm a Wang supporter, always have been

but the thought of his next start, pitching the first game of the series at Fenway, makes me sweat. This will be such a big start for Wang and has the potential to be another two inning disaster.

On the other hand if he can manage to pitch well then it would be a huge boast of confidence.

"Here, if you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake, and I have a straw. There it is, that's a straw, you see? You watching?. And my straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake... I... drink... your... milkshake!"-Daniel Plainview

by yankee come lately on Jun 4, 2009 5:48 PM EDT reply actions

Slanting

I think your slanting the whole thing by saying ‘poor starts.’ I think CMW gets 3-5 starts before any judgment can be made. I thought today his only really ‘bad’ inning was the 4th. Texas scored twice in the third and only managed to hit one ball hard. Obviously, CMW needs to be better than 5 runs in 5 innngs.

by Ed Valentine on Jun 4, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions

The big positive

about this Wang v Hughes debate is that it shelves the Joba-to-the-pen debate.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Jun 4, 2009 5:54 PM EDT reply actions

Please

I wish

by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 4, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the return of Wang/ Hughes to the bullpen move felt a little rushed. I didn’t necessarily understand why it had to happen instantly. Wang was progressing in the bullpen and may need a little more time to build arm strength before he is fully ready to pitch out the rotation. Too late now though!!

That being said, his start was not atrocious, any pitcher could have had the same line against a powerful Texas lineup. I know their road splits show that they are not nearly as good offensively on the road, but the lineup still has many good hitters that make it tough pitchers.

"""""If you use Brett Gardner to pinch-run, then let him run. He should have been stealing – he didn’t and Tex grounded into a double-play. """"

is response to this comment, I agree that you want to utilize Gardner’s primary asset.. But realistically….In that Teixeira AB, the first move was a pickoff throw to frist…then a slider strike…you don’t always run on the first pitch…then another pickoff throw to first(mind you WIlson is a LH pitcher too) then the next pitch, Teixeira grounded into the DP….0-1 is not an advisable running count, as it is a very common count to pitchout on…that combined with the LH pitcher and a slightly later jump are obviously not prime base stealing conditions….so to call them out for not running Gardner (which they likely would have in the next pitch or 2) …just doesn’t seem like we really got the opportunity to truly gauge the Yanks intentions there…

by 1sg1977 on Jun 4, 2009 6:02 PM EDT reply actions

Hit and Run

by jimwarren on Jun 4, 2009 7:08 PM EDT reply actions

He's been in the pen...

…he needs a few starts to get the stamina to go 7-9 innings.

by Ragnar808 on Jun 4, 2009 10:09 PM EDT reply actions

I agree

we have to give him a few starts more , right? because the next time he gets pulled from the rotation might be his last with the Yankees. he has been so awful all we could use him for is some type of reliever, but our bullpen is becoming a strong point so who knows what to really do…we need to give him a little more time.

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by kdog on Jun 5, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions

He;s going to get 1 start if AJ Burnett gets suspended

The silver lining in that situation is that Hughes will be able to make a start and so will wang. S owe have to wait and see. From what i saw on gameday and what my friend said, his sinker was sinking, but maybe too much since it always went out of the zone.THen he relied mainly on fastballs and sliders which the batters jumped on.

by lololol on Jun 5, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions

Inflating the score

I feel badly for Chien Ming Wang, I really do. He hasn’t really been a confident pitcher since the last game of 2007.
He’d never experienced a failure of that sort with the Yankees and this carried over hitters even before the foot injury last year.

Dave EIland has confidence in CMW’s sinker that did sink with good velocity, and tha, with time he’ll regain his form. What Wang doesn’t appear to have is the ability to make hitters think twice, though Kinsler froze at a sinker that shaved the plate early in the game. If you throw CMW into Fenway’s shark tank, either you’ll shatter his delicate confidence, or give him something to build on. But, Boston?

I just do not think CMW has the mental toughness or the physical stamina to deal with the pounding in the AL East. I fear he is a hot-house flower – an American League thrower with a 1-2 pitch combination, at best who is so delicately calibrated, that when trouble ensues, and it will, he doesn’t have a B game, let alone a C game to deal with pressure.

Boston must be smelling blood.

ejs

by ericjs on Jun 5, 2009 12:46 AM EDT reply actions

“I just do not think CMW has the mental toughness or the physical stamina to deal with the pounding in the AL East”

Yeah I mean he only won 54 games and lost 20 in his first 3 full seasons in the AL East.

“I feel badly for Chien Ming Wang, I really do. He hasn’t really been a confident pitcher since the last game of 2007. "

He was 8-2 before he got hurt. How many pitchers right now in MLB are in that range? Maybe 8?

People here baffle me sometimes. Wang was gonna win 18+ LAST season. That would have made it two 19 win seasons in a row and quite possibly another. He struggles this year because of an injury and everyone is talking of getting rid of him. Wow, what a bunch of fair weather fans. The guy wins more games in the past 3 years than anyone else for the Yankees and he gets inured and you all wanna throw him out. In favor of a 23 year old who has accomplished NOTHING in the big leagues except two well pitched games, one of which he got injured in. Phrancise has started about a full seasons worth of games and is 8-9 with a 5.22 ERA. I like Phil, but I don’t see him coming in and winning 19 any time soon.

by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 5, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions

+ 1

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Jun 5, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions

Wang was gonna win 18 last year? How could you say that. The fact is that he didn’t. Im not saying that Wang is a bad pitcher but as of now, he is our worst pitcher. Hughes has been good lately for us, alot better than Wang. I’m not watching the games so I can see Wang improve. I’m watching so I can see Wang win games. I’m tired of hearing look at the bright side he didnt give us 8 runs. Hughes overall career migh not be the best. But lets look at Wangs and Hughes past 3 or 4 starts and lets see who gives us the best chance to win.

by bleachercreatures on Jun 5, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions