Chien Ming Wang is "fixed"
The last time I talked about fixing wangs, I was taking my poor dog to......nevermind.
Chien Ming-Wang's return from the DL has been full of mixed results, but after three consecutive starts of 5 innings and allowing 3 runs or less, it appears that the rotation spot is his to keep, despite a rather poor ERA since May (5.28) and since returning to the rotoation (6.35).
We'll always have passionate debates about the role of analyzing stats versus evaluating on-field performance. And while the Yankees fan in me hates to see Wang keep performing at a mediocre level, the stathead in me says something else is at play. So to break it down, I compared Wang's stats from his heydey in 2006-2007 to his stats since returning from the DL this May, to see what was going on. I ignored hits and runs, because those are often too dependent on factors outside of the pitcher's control, i.e. bad defense, bad luck on BABIP, etc. I also understand that 30 2/3 innings in 2009 are a very small sample, but if we're going to run him out of town based on that small sample, then I'll take the stats for what they are.
Let's start with the basics, that is, you can't win games if you don't throw strikes, and Wang doesn't appear to be throwing any fewer (or more) strikes than he has in the past. I know he has appeared wild in some starts recently, or hasn't had command of his sinker in others, but he's still throwing 62% of his pitches for strikes, just like he was in 2006-2007.
What does appear to have changed, however, is his ability to get batters to swing and miss, as well as his strikeout rate. Two extra swings and misses per 100 pitches doesn't seem like much, but it will have a positive effect on a pitcher's stat lines (eventually, at least). His strikeout rate has also doubled; whether or not this is attributable to the extra swings and misses, better command of pitch repertoire, or dumb luck remains to be seen. But, for now, it's still good.
What's also interesting to note his is decreased line drive % (measured as % of his pitches that turn into line drives). Contrary to what we might think, opposing hitters have actually hit him less hard since he's come off of the DL this season then they did in his two 19 win campaigns. Not every line drive turns into a hit, but most of them do; two fewer line drives every 100 pitches probably translates into on or two fewer extra base hits.
Now, there are some negatives here as well. His home run rate went from unbelievably low to slightly above average; his walk rate has increased, albeit to a still acceptable level; and, his double play rate has decreased. Some of these can be explained; pitchers with higher strikeout rates tend to have higher walk rates, and Wang could be inducing fewer double plays because opponents are swinging and missing more often.
Baseball is not a statistically linear game; just because a pitcher has a career ERA of 4.00 does not mean he will give up exactly 40 runs for every 90 innings he pitches. Weird things can happen over small samples of innings, sometimes even large samples, and even though wins and losses are the only things that ultimately count, we can look at some of the hidden details and figure out if Wang is truly finished as an effective major league pitcher, or if he's simply catching some bad breaks.
So answer me this: how is it possible that an effective pitcher is able to increase the rate at which opposing hitters swing and miss and strike out, and reduce the rate at which they hit line drives, yet sees his ERA rise by nearly 2 full runs while doing so?
There is only one answer: Bad Luck.
Wang's BABIP was .293 in 2006 and .296 in 2007. On the other hand, his BABIP was .364 in May '09 and .347 in June '09.
The game is played on the field and Wang must keep improving. But, if I was ever going to wager on one player bouncing back and returning to (or improving upon) his old form, Wang would be that player.
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23 comments
Comments
Wang
Is on a bounce.
He has been too good a pitcher to just disappear. I was very worried about his injury and do not really expect the old Wang until next season. But he will help us from here out.
If I's known I was going to live so long, I'd have taken better care of myself. Casey
by Cbeck3 on Jun 29, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting stuff...
But I think a pitcher like Wang more or less makes his own luck when it comes to BABIP. If he’s getting that sinker down, it seems probable that his BABIP stays down. When his pitches are up in the zone, he gets hammered and the BABIP number goes up.
Now I realize it’s not quite cut and dry as that. I don’t know what the statistical probabilitly of a ground ball being fielded vs. that of a line drive or fly ball.
I will agree that he is heading the right direction, and that a guy doesn’t just “lose it”… Wang should be back- hopefully sooner rather than later.
by NumberSeven on Jun 29, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BABIP
But like you said, once the ball leaves the hitter’s bat, nobody really has much control over where it lands. BABIP is just one of several factors to look at when a pitcher puts up unexpected results. I just can’t think of a single pitcher in baseball history who threw more groundballs than flyballs, increase his strikeout rate, and reduce his line drive rate, and wound up posting worse numbers.
by 3460kuri on Jun 29, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually-
there are ways to look deeper into BAPIP and see if it is luck or not that is determining the BAPIP. The old, presumably less acurate way, it to just do this:
LD%+0.12=expected BAPIP. This is of course empirical, but it has been shown to roughly work. It is based on the idea that if your LD% is high, you are getting hit hard. There is debate about this, and this is an interesting take on this from the hitter’s point of view:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/batters-and-babip/
As for Wang, the crude rule of thumb would suggest he is unlucky overall, as you suggest.
by Buzzy on Jun 30, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
He’s still scuffling, cuz while he’s still throwing hard, that sinker is just floating and running, rather than falling off the table like a bowling ball.
He should be commended for battling through this. He was always thought of as a guy who when he doesn;t have his good stuff, he gets shelled (and since he won a whole lot, he usually does have his good stuff).
He doesn’t have the stuff right now, but he’s been getting out of jams.
I mean you have to be excited about him without his best stuff right now and still getting by. Yes the Mets suck, but that didn’t stop teams like the Nationals(tho they have more than one above average hitter in the lineup) from beating the Yanks.
He gets that 95 MPH bowling ball back, and considering his slider looks quite nasty right now, that would give the Yanks 3 1-1a starters on any given night, plus Pettite and Joba have shown they can more than get it done too.
Id rather have any player struggle a bit to start off the season (tho not as much as Wang of course) then regain his dominant form in the latter half. Lets hope Wang does just that.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 29, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wangs
I know his name is funny but I am tired of the Wang jokes. First of all it is pronounced Wong, perhaps he should change his name to Wong spelling the phonetic spelling which is more accurate.
by bcw420 on Jun 29, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bad luck
Unquantifiable, and as I understand there’s no room in a baseball discussion for such things.
And hard hit groundballs become hits more often than softly hit ground balls, which could easily explain how Wang’s BABIP could go up despite his LD% going down.
Add the increased HR frequency, and there’s your ballooning ERA.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 29, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what just exactly is babip and whip; i've never known that
by jv52yankees on Jun 29, 2009 11:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
WHIP = walks + hits divided by innings pitched. It gives some measure of how many baserunners a pitcher allows per inning, although it’s not the best measure to show how well he’s pitching.
BABIP is batting average on balls in play. Basically, take home runs and strikeouts out of the picture (because the ball is never in play). This is a measure of “luck” for both hitters and pitchers. The idea is that, a pitcher may be able to control, at least to some extent, whether he allows groundballs or flyballs, and a hitter can try to hit to the opposite field or pull the ball, but once contact is made and the ball leaves the bat, a random event ensues. Nobody has any control over whether that opposite field hit turns into a line drive or a lazy popup. The pitcher can induce groundballs, but nobody can really control whether it’s a weak dribbler to shortstop or a rocket up the middle.
Most players have a BABIP of around .300, and if a player is having an unusually good or bad year by his standards, BABIP is one of the first places to look – if it deviates significantly from his prior seasons, it’s a good sign that he’s been getting lucky or unlucky.
by 3460kuri on Jun 30, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The K rate is up
because Wang is mixing his pitches more than in his heyday, when he just threw the sinker all the time and opposing hitters pounded it into the ground. He’s being forced to mix his pitches because the sinker isn’t working all the time yet. More K’s and fewer ground balls means that he doesn’t go as deep into the game.
I see what you are saying about bad luck. But Wang is more valuable when he’s getting a million ground balls and going 8 innings in every start, nice as it is to see him effective when he doesn’t have his best stuff — something he never was in his heyday. Wang won’t truly be “fixed” (snicker) until the sinker is working consistently.
by DocBrown82 on Jun 30, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But he is getting just as many groundballs
by 3460kuri on Jun 30, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More baserunners...
…more holes in the infield.
Look at the walk total.
You walk a guy leading off, then a groundball to first turns into a single to right. One of those things your precious little stats can’t quantify.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 30, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to debate, let’s debate. It’s fun. If you want to be cranky, go to my grandfather’s house – you’ll fit right in.
You’re right – there are more holes in the infield when runners are being held on base. I have no idea how much this impacts BABIP. But Wang’s walk rate has only gone from 1.6 per 9 innings to 2.2. Is an extra walk every 18 innings REALLY going to increase his BABIP by 60 points?
by 3460kuri on Jun 30, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
This thread is enlightening, even if I am not a huge stat fan it is interesting
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 30, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You tell me...
…you’re the stats guy.
Until stats can’t explain something, then you throw “luck” out there.
Maybe he’s giving up harder hit groundballs because his sinker isn’t diving as much. Harder hit balls do result in more hits.
Maybe his wildness is resulting in more hitters counts, which means better swings and better results.
Maybe it’s the fact that more of the flyballs he’s allowing are turning into souvenirs rather than outs.
These are all things you need to worry about, because I concern myself with the only thing that actually matters … the end result.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 30, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he is giving up harder hit groundballs, but, since he returned from the DL, he’s induced groundballs at the same rate as he did in 2006-2007. If his sinker wasn’t diving as much, don’t you think his GB/FB ratio would drop, rather than stay level?
Maybe his wildness is resulting in more hitters counts, except that he’s throwing 62% of his pitches for strikes now, as he was in 2006-2007. I mean, if you’re throwing the same percentage of strikes, can you say he’s gotten “wilder”?
Maybe more of his flyballs are turning into home runs, but he’s given up fewer line drives and hard hit balls while his home run rate has gone up; how does that make any sense?
There is lots of luck in baseball. How do you explain a long flyball that bounces of the foul pole, versus one that misses it by a foot? Does the hitter have anything to do with that? What about seeing-eye singles, balls taking weird hops, etc.? The hitter put some backspin on the intentionally, just to make that happen?
Based on all this stuff, I said “The game is played on the field and Wang must keep improving. But, if I was ever going to wager on one player bouncing back and returning to (or improving upon) his old form, Wang would be that player.” Why do you have a problem with that?
by 3460kuri on Jun 30, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again...
-Not every groundball is created equally. An each chopper is not the same as a hard hit groundball. Considering the difference fractions of inches can make when a round bat hits a round ball, it wouldn’t take much loss of sink to turn a chopper into a hard groundball.
-Not every strike is created equally. If he falls behind 3-1 then gives up a HR, then gets a groundball on an 0-2 pitch, he’s thrown 3 balls and 4 strikes. If he goes 2-2, 1-2, he’s also thrown 3 balls and 4 strikes. Which is a better situation for a pitcher?
-Maybe his bad pitches are worse than before and being hit harder for HRs.
For the record, I never said I had a problem with your statement, I was attempting to offer possible explanations for the increased BABIP. I don’t think any of my explanations are irrational when you consider all the factors, but you’ve come into this discussion with your mind already made up that “luck” is at fault, so how do I reason with that?
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 30, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your use of caps lock...
…convinced me I’m wrong.
You should have done that hours ago.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 30, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are both right
you are both right in a sense, but are also arguing different points. Jerk is correct in that perhaps the uses of BAPIP, LD% etc are flawed in accessing the degree to which a pitcher has been unlucky; He is also correct in that the only thing that really matters is the bottom line-performance. However, Kuri is not trying to deny that Wang’s performance has been poor, he is only trying to say that, moving forward, the numbers suggest a regression toward the old Wang’s pitching results. It is true that as a means of placing “betting odds” on future performance, what Kuri says has been reliable numerous times; with regard to cases like Armondo Galarraga and Jon Lester and many others you can find many discussions on SBN baseball sites “predicting” regression (in the former case, towards bad results and in the latter towards improved ones) and more often than not, this does turn out to be a useful indicator. It is not a sure bet, of course, but I don’t think it was suggested as one.
by Buzzy on Jun 30, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wang's "hittability" is up
His K-rate and HR/9 rate could be connected. Hitters know that they can drive Wang’s pitches better since his sinker stays flat. It also looks like he’s throwing more fastballs, so hence the increased swinging.
The hitters will obviously strike out and swing and miss more since they ARE swinging more. But they’ll also get more HR.
by moose35 on Jul 2, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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