Time to make the move ...
by Ronster22 on Jun 19, 2009 11:43 AM EDT
74 comments
After watching Joba's pedestrian performance last night, and listening to the National's Rob Dibble express concern for his lack of pop--noting Joba appeared "stiff" and not the "free and easy motion" that he (Dibble) witnessed in past starts, I began to turn the corner.
I've long been a supporter of Joba in the rotation. However, with Wang perhaps returning to some semlance of his former self, and Hughes lights out in the bullpen, I believe the best thing the Yankees could do right now is move Joba to the 8th inning role and move Hughes into the rotation.
I realize Joba is young, and will certainly grow in knowledge on the mound, but he's lacking the aggressiveness that punctuated his appearances as a reliever. Last night he was spinning curveballs to a .190 hitter instead of challenging him and putting him away with his best stuff. The previous start he couldn't seem to get on the same page as Jorge, shaking off fastballs in favor of changeups and curves. Is he hurt? Is he losing confidence in his stuff?
That's why I believe it's time to reinsert him as the 8th inning setup guy and move Phil into the rotation. I think the move would pay off immediately. Joba could return to the dart throwing, pitching psychopath he was--blowing hitters away with speed and movement. Hughes meanwhile would emerge from the pen with an improved demeanor on the mound that I believe will translate into great success.
0 recs |
74 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Believe it if you want
But, it is not going to happen. The Yanks have committed to him in the rotation, and that is how it’s going to be.
by Ed Valentine on Jun 19, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
slow in making moves
dont you realize it takes the yankees weeks to make any key decisions, they appear lost and always playing from behind, i said this many times, teams have the edge on us, i dont understand why they dont admit or see it and want to do something about it
they can give a rats ass about us fans
they dont care about the fans anymore, look at the how everything is being handled
by Captain Yank on Jun 19, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ronster- welcome back, man...
I hear what you are saying loud and clear, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. I think management is pretty committed to him being in the rotation. He’s got the stuff, he’s just still learning how to pitch at the ML level. I think as he does he will be a top of the rotation guy for years to come. Oh – and I still need to see more from Wang before I declare him back.
by NumberSeven on Jun 19, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed ...
Wang is still a question mark, but when I watch Porcello, Verlander, Gallardo and some of these other young guns finding success, and Joba’s kinda’ middling around, I get concerned that perhaps he is best suited in the pen. But I’m hearing what’s being said. The organization is apparently sold on him in the rotation, and they are slow to move, but if Bruney falters and gets hurt again, Joba’s the guy… Good to be back.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Jun 19, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen, been missing you
Good to hear your point of view.
Do you think they can eat the crow necessary to make this move.
Watching Phil Hughes go to the bull pen made me remember that that’s how pitchers used to break in. First middle relief long man, then more important innings and spot starter. Then rotation.
Joba does look tentative to me.
If I's known I was going to live so long, I'd have taken better care of myself. Casey
by Cbeck3 on Jun 21, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Praise Jesus!
It won’t matter though, they’re committed to their stubborn attempt to prove people in the “Joba to the bullpen” crowd wrong, and nothing can stop them now.
Except of course Joba’s eventual arm problems that will ruin his career. Stay tuned…
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Hughes is good in the pen, so move Joba back there???
You honestly think Hughes will do any better than Joba in the rotation? Better yet, you think Joba will be any better than Hughes in the pen????
Nonsense, makes no sense. Hughes will get his shot in the rotation sooner or later.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 19, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By that logic...
…so will Joba.
Hughes has the true starter stuff between the two guys.
I’m not even going to waste my time with this argument today though. It’ll all be settled in due time, most likely with Joba going on the DL with a “tired arm” just like last year.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ARE YOU JOKING?
In two seasons Hughes has pitched two great games. Both against Texas in Texas and in one of them he got injured. Hughes is 8-9 so far starting in 3 seasons. Joba is 7-5. Hughes’ ERA is 4.89 this season. Joba’s is 3.89. So WTF are you talking about? Do you just have a man crush on him?
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 20, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes perfect sense
I’ve seen something different about Hughes’ demeanor since he was put in the pen. Joba doesn’t have that same look anymore—the one he had when he first joined the rotation. Your question nonsensical—Hughes isn’t the 8th inning guy—Joba would be. You can’t compare the two when they have different roles. I agree that Hughes will get his shot sooner or later, but unless Joba starts figuring out that he can’t finesse a .190 hitter we are going to have problems.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Jun 19, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes no sense
Look at David Price. He’s struggling much more than Joba, he had MORE SUCCESS than Joba as he won the WS cuz of him in the pen.
You see the Rays giving up on him?
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 20, 2009 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EVERY PITCHER
will be better in the pen. why? because it’s only one freaking inning!
Sabathia would sure look great pitching that 8th inning. so would Burnett. and i bet their ‘demeanor’ would prove it.
we can only hope the Rays put Price in the pen, or the Sox Lester.
by Travis G on Jun 21, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a great idea.....
they need to make a deal for Martinez…..Here is a guy with experience, what is he 87-88. Sorry, but I could not pass that up. I wish I was a baseball mind because I really want to see these guys get on the stick. I have been a YANKEE fan for 55-56 years and these guys do have talent but too many are just not playing aggressively. I wish I had some answers.
Rick
Goooooooooooo MSU BOBCATs
MONTANA STATE UNIVERSITY
by ramyankee on Jun 19, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you were a Yankees fan for 56 years
You would know better than even thinking about signing Pedro.
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 20, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joba Back to the Pen
Hughes has the better stuff and I believe that CMW is returning to form. To see Joba go out there continue to walk people and to get into hitters counts because he not challenging people is getting old. Back to the pen Joba and stop holding it back.
by imyrick on Jun 19, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
in what galaxy
does Hughes have ‘better stuff’ than Joba?
by Travis G on Jun 19, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come On
Joba starts out slow. You can always score on him in the first. He has one good inning in their and then he is burnt out by the 5th. Look at his stats. They both middle 90s but hook that Hughes is just nasty.
Also the first time that Hughes came out of the pen and he had the hat pulled over his face. I was glad that I was on the couch watching the game and not having to step the box because his stuff looked nasty.
by imyrick on Jun 19, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
Joba starts out slow because he’s trying to pace himself well. He’s young, efficiency is what he will learn by continuing to pitch games. And of course Hughes looks better out of the pen, anyone would when you can unload everything you have for an inning.
Also, if you think that Joba will magically start throwing 98 again just because he’s in the bullpen, you’re mistaken.
by Wraithpk on Jun 19, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Joba starts out slow. You can always score on him in the first. He has one good inning in their and then he is burnt out by the 5th.”
still a better option than CMW.
and every pitcher will throw harder in the pen.
by Travis G on Jun 19, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not true, Travis.
Not every pitcher throws harder in the pen. But that’s not even the question. Okay, Joba starts slow, I get that. The problem is his elevated pitch count. He gets to 5 and he’s staring at 90+ pitches. That’s not efficient. He needs to challenge and trust his stuff—whether it’s 94 or 98.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Jun 19, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which he
will do, in time.
Do you see the Rays even thinking about moving David Price back to the closer’s role? They don’t even have a closer and their bullpen is OK.
Price is struggling, he’s damn near geriatric at 23 and has had his chance to show if he’s a starter in MLB, so move him to the pen right?
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 20, 2009 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
Prove to me through numbers Hughes has better stuff as a starter. Show me 1 stat where Hughes is better.
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 20, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CMW is returning to form because
he gave up 3 runs in 5 innings to the worst team in baseball. Yay!
by garp on Jun 19, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
CMW
Mixed his sinker was now in the zone. He had good comannd of the slider and he mixed his pitches well. Yes he gave a homerun to Dunn. Pena should have made the catch on the steal and bad call at first on the ARod play. The Melky dives for a ball that he had no chance of catching and he gave up two more runs.
by imyrick on Jun 19, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joba pitched 6 innings and gave up 3 runs against
the worst team in baseball and according to people on this site, he sucks as a starter and should be sent to the pen. CMW pitches only 5 innings and gives up 3 runs against the worst team in baseball, and he is back and should take Joba’s place in the rotation. WTF?
by garp on Jun 19, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joba doesn't suck, and I don't think anyone said that.
I just think with our pen in disarray, Joba is a better option than Hughes, and Hughes is a better option than both Wang and Joba for the rotation.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Jun 19, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hughes is actually
not any better of an option.
I guess maybe its been a while since you saw Phranchise pitch??? He does the same crap as Joba.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 20, 2009 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are both great prospects
But neither is a great pitcher
Yet.
If I's known I was going to live so long, I'd have taken better care of myself. Casey
by Cbeck3 on Jun 21, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets see eiland can do
mr pitching coach, i bet he walks the first 4 batters
he has messed them all up
all have been hurt, all have lost velocity and all cant go more than 5 innings usually
i mean, lets bring ed whitson and see what he can do, how about trout, brown, shall i go on…billy would have leveled these guys by now, bush league
by Captain Yank on Jun 19, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's madness
He has the second-best ERA of all our starters. He’s closer to first than the third-place guy is to him. He’s only pitched 10-11 fewer innings than Pettitte and Burnett, and at least half of that can be attributed to the game where he came out in the first. He also has the second-best WHIP, though Burnett and Pettitte are much closer to him in that category. He’s got the best strikeouts per 9 innings of any of our starters. What about those numbers indicates that he’s not suited for the role that he’s in? Are we so confident in Wang and Hughes at this point that it makes sense to move our second-best starter out of the rotation? Do we make a move because he MIGHT get hurt? He needs to throw more strikes, learn to work out of jams and put away batters. Is that more likely to happen in the bullpen?
by long time listener on Jun 19, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you're welcome
Sometimes I feel like I’m sane in an insane world. He’s got about 190 innings in the big leagues and people are saying he can’t be a starter? Or that he’s an injury risk? So is every other pitcher! I know that everyone here wants the Yankees to win and is pushing what they think will accomplish that, but too may people are hung up on August through October of 2007 and losing sight of the big picture.
by long time listener on Jun 19, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needs to challenge .. I"m not seeing that.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Jun 19, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's lack of focus, more than anything else
He may be trying to reserve a bit of himself at the beginning, but I just don’t think he has the mental makeup to focus and concentrate all of the time. He seems to do ok when he’s under pressure (e.g., 8th inning of a close game), but he lets too many “ordinary” innings get out of control when he’s starting.
by cph on Jun 19, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The move to be made is . . .
. . . Hughes staying in the pen. Joba’s job is not to throw 96 miles an hour and look fantastic. His job to take the mound and give the Yankees a chance to win. In most of his starts, he’s done that by making a quality start. Now I know some people claim QSs are overrated (since 6 IP and 3 ER is a QS), but consider that CMW has not earned ANY this season, and Hughes has earned only 2, Joba has earned a spot in the rotation.
Is he Felix Hernandez? No. But he’s getting there. Maybe once he gets his mechanics in order (as he says he needs to), he will regain the overpowering heater.
by JRob514 on Jun 19, 2009 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ummm, no
Joba’s job, I was told, was to develop into an ACE. I don’t care about quality starts, because that is one of the worst stats in baseball. A “quality start” consists of a 4.00 ERA?
BS.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joba's development is fine
NYSJ,
If qualtiy starts are so overrated, why do good pitchers consistently compile them? In addition, would you consider Josh Beckett and ACE? Well, Joba Chamberlain has a better ERA. Now go run along to People.com and post a comment about how Scarlett Johansson is “chubby.” (If you don’t get my sarcasm, I’m trying to imply that you’re standards are a bit too high)
by JRob514 on Jun 19, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you have to explain it, it's not funny
It’s easy for good pitchers to get quality starts, because pitching 6 innings and allowing 3 runs shouldn’t be a chore for the best pitchers in the league.
You think Roy Halladay would be happy with that start? Johan Santana? The “quality start” is ridiculously easy to achieve, so naturally the league’s best pitchers would have tons of them.
And by the way, most of Beckett’s ERA was compiled in three horrible starts. But since you’re in love with quality starts, he has 9 of them, Joba has 6.
Beckett has also pitched fewer than 6 innings only twice. Joba has done that six times.
And yes, I would consider Beckett an ace, because he’s pitched some of the best games in postseason history and he’s earned that reputation. People keep telling me Joba is going to be an ace based on their magical hopes and dreams.
No wonder Obama got elected.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Roy Halladay, Johan Santana and even Josh Beckett weren’t the pitchers at this point in their careers that Joba is.
Joba’s 1st 193 2/3 Big League innings:
2.79 ERA
216 Ks
Halladay’s 1st 194 Big League Innings:
4.82 ERA
111 Ks
Santana’s First 190 Big League Innings
5.05 ERA
171 Ks
Beckett’s FIrst 192 2/3 Big League Innings
3.56 ERA
203 Ks
And they were all 23 when they hit this inning total. The truth of the matter is, real aces are hard to find. They’re even rarer if you expect them to be an ace right away. A lot of time a pitcher has to grow into it that role. Joba is already an above average starter with the potential to be a top of the rotation guy. Why would you want to stunt that growth to put him in a position where he provided less value to the team?
by bfriley76 on Jun 19, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apologies for being snarky
I agree with you 100% about President Obama and that Joba could stand to provide the Yankees with more length, but I disagree that quality starts are not an important statistic.
I cannot quanitify it, but just watching the Yankees all the time I really do think QSs make a difference.
BTW, I checked the stats on Beckett and Santana . Each of them did a hell of job, even at 23, of eating innings. They also had better ERAs. But their records are no better than Joba’s probably will be this year: Beckett 9-8 and Santana 8-6. In addition, Halladay was terrible at 23 (10.64 ERA). I still think Joba can develop into an ace. See post by riley above for more.
We need a good start tonight and some more offense. Go Yanks!
by JRob514 on Jun 19, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Develop
Does not mean he becomes an ace in 5 starts. Try 2-3 years to develop into an ace. No patience? Well I guess thats the mentality that has kept the Yankees out of the Show for years. Look at all the elite starters in baseball and their first couple seasons of action. Too lazy? Here I will do it for you…
Taking the first couple seasons of actually starting:
Johan Santana 11-9 4.74 ERA
Roy Halladay 12-14 7.28 ERA
Cliff Lee 17-11 4.52 ERA
Josh Beckett 15-15 3.57 ERA
You lack of patience
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 20, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the reason people want to see Joba in the pen is the combination of his fastball and energy. I fiery guy who gets amped up after strike outs makes a great reliever. Its hard to keep that going for 6 innings, and it takes something away from the guy. There he can get by on just two pitches, and fastball and anything would be two great pitches for him.
I see it like the Lebron as a receiver talks. He could be a good WR in the NFL, but he is GREAT in the NBA. With Joba, its not that he is not or cant be a quality starter, but he could be a great reliever.
by ryanwk628 on Jun 19, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
How many starters do you see with the engery that Joba brings to the mound? It is the stuff that you see from a shut down closer. Regards of what is said how much you want him in the rotation he is bullpen guy and a future closer. Put Hughes in the roatation and Joba in the pen. Hey that is where is going to be in playoffs. Hmmmmmm open your eyes people he is not pitching that great. The bullpen still has be on alert about the 4th inning when he is pitching.
by imyrick on Jun 19, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong
You don’t move people into the bullpen until they’ve proven that they cannot be a starter. Starters are much more valuable than relievers, and if you don’t believe that, go look at the payrolls of team’s starters vs. the payroll of their relievers. Everyone who is in a bullpen is there because they aren’t good enough to be a starter.
Even Mo was a starter in the beginning of his career, but he only had one dominant pitch and couldn’t really get his offspeed pitch to be successful, so he was moved to the bullpen. Joba has a great fastball, a great slider, a good changeup and curveball, and he’s also beginning to incorporate a 2 seam fastball. Joba needs to work on his pitch efficiency, which will come with time.
by Wraithpk on Jun 19, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 runs
Joba gave up 3 runs. Hardly enough of a reason to move him YET AGAIN.
He needs to learn how to be a SP instead of a RP. Gonna take some time…he probably needs to build up more stamina and strength and learn to pace himself and to learn the art of pitching.
The Yanks got SHUT OUT. That’s why they lost the game. If he gave up 1 run that would have been too much.
I’m just glad that moving him to the bullpen wont happen till at least the playoffs where they need 3 SPs.
by Ragnar808 on Jun 19, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
joba to pen
hi everyone, been reading on this blog for a long time, but this is my first post. i completely supported joba in the rotation. an early post from one of these debates someone said maybe once joba reaches his innings limit, we’d be looking at him in the pen & hughes in the rotation come late august/september. that makes a lot of sense, but i’ve recently changed my mind for so many reasons. all of the reasons i’ve read so many people citing, but first and foremost for me is his emotion. joba seems to live and die with every pitch, every at-bat. i believe that emotion translates so much better in the later innings in relief. i actually think it hurts him as a starter b/c he can’t maintain it so he’s up & down. you bring him in for that one big inning or so, he’s pumped, he gets the job done everytime instead of every 5 days maybe. i’m with you ronster & i believe you’re right about hughes coming out of the pen with an improved demeanor. we just have to hope wang is back to his old self and up to the task. but whatever, it will NEVER happen anyway.
by jlaporta on Jun 19, 2009 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Papelbon
like Joba was a guy destined to be a starter, turned out to be a better reliever. High energy guy, which is part of his pitching. That would be lost over a 6 inning start.
I hate looking to the North East for ideas, but they have been doing pretty well lately.
by ryanwk628 on Jun 19, 2009 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
We should be looking North for ideas, since they have all the good ones and the Yankees keep drafting guys who need major surgery. People keep relying on the word of Cashman about Joba’s future as a starter.
Since when does Brian Cashman know what the hell he’s talking about? This is really the guy you want to trust? Really?
Papelbon’s minor league stats as a starter are comparable to Joba’s in every category. The Red Sox found a role where he was absolutely dominant, and they kept him there, because they recognize how hard it is to find late inning relief.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bullcrap.
When Joba’s 25 years old, like Papelbon was when he came in the league, then we’ll talk about making him the closer. Papelbon didn’t get much of a chance in the rotation, but there was an absolute need for him to be the CLOSER. Not a setup guy, where you can grab guys off the scrap heap (or fleece from KC), or actually draft a college closer, like the Sux have done.
The Yankees have a CLOSER now. That’s the only way that there would be a NEED to move Joba to the pen.
Right now? A 23 y/o that struggles yet still manages to keep his team in the game? I’ll take that. Consistency will develop with time.
Im sure if the Sux had a CLOSER in place, a guy like Mo, that they would have tried to stick through with Papelbon in the rotation.
Their pen was much worse than the Yankees, and they didn’t even have a closer, it really made sense to move him there.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 19, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mo can't pitch forever
I agree, the Red Sox were in a desperate situation and caught lightning in a bottle with Papelbon.
Still, so were the Yankees when Joba suddenly showed up to own the 7th & 8th innings.
Mariano is going to need to be replaced at some point, and a few years as his understudy couldn’t hurt Joba as a future closer.
LIke I said before, it’s pointless to argue this because everyone has pretty much dug in to their position, but your position is based on hype, mine is based on results. You can cherry pick starts here or there in defense of your position, I’ll show you 49 DOMINANT relief appearances in defense of mine.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joba
can be thrown in the closer spot as soon as needed.
THere really is no need to ‘groom’ him, cuz he already has shown (like your litte 49 dominant innings stat).
Hughes and CM Wangs bullpen stint has shown that any capable starter can be very good when thrown in the pen.
We’re talking about a 23 y/o pitcher, one who unfortunately proved he is a good reliever before he even had a chance to be a starter.
Is he gonna be an ace? NO ONE really has a clue yet how he’s gonna develop. There is no reason to give up on the guy already as a starter.
There are plenty of options in the future (Andrew Brackman?) to be the closer from within as well as FA.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 19, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brackman? Hahahahahah
Oh boy I needed that. Thanks for the laugh. Another one of Cashman’s brilliant draft picks.
And don’t back away from the “ace” thing already. All I’ve heard about Joba is that he’s going to be an ace, that’s why he’s starting. He’d better be, or I want to see a lot of people saying “I was wrong.”
As for bringing in a FA closer, just where do you think they’re going to find someone like that? Nobody will ever feel more pressure than being the guy to replace Rivera, although Joba could make the smooth transition from setup for Rivera to his replacement better than anybody you can find on the market.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
Brackman was just a name to throw out there. Bad pick, but the guy still throws gas and it actually isn’t even as far fetched as saying Joba is a future option. Could happen, I mean no one ever thought Joba to the pen made any sense at the time either.
Do I think he’s a future ace? Why not? It IS too early to tell, there really aren’t many pitchers to be considered aces at his age, but he has the potential so sure he’s a future ace.
He’s 23 and hasn’t even had a full season in the bigs yet. Give him time, that’s all.
As for Rivera’s future replacement? Who knows that either. I have no clue who will be on the trade market, FA market, who comes up from the minors. No one knows.
Joba may eventually still be an option there, but its just too soon to automatically make him that dude. To base it on ’he’s done it already’ doesn mean squat right now, but it could in the future cuz at least you know the guy can do it.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 19, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
paps
became a closer bc of injury concerns and the fact that he has 2 pitches.
by Travis G on Jun 19, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...
Joba has injury concerns and seems to only use 2 pitches. That rolling curveball is garbage.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
the one that k’ed miguel cabrera with the bases loaded? i dont know what games you’re watching.
he threw 100 pitches: 7 changeups, 12 curves and 17 sliders. and ALL for strikes more than half the time.
by Travis G on Jun 19, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh wow ...
…yeah I forgot about that ONE PITCH. I’m completely turned around on the subject now.
Craig Stammen made the Yankees look like jerks for 6.1 innings last night, maybe we should trade for him because he’s going to be an ace for sure.
Joba throws 100 pitches over 6 innings regularly. If that’s command, I don’t want to see wild.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
merely refuting
your claim that joba has only 2 pitches which is complete nonsense.
by Travis G on Jun 19, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because
a pitcher “has” 4 pitches, doesn’t mean he should use them.
Whoopee, Joba threw a whole bunch of different pitches last night. They resulted in 18 outs on 100 pitches.
Hold on while I celebrate his awesomeness.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 19, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, it does
you see, when a starter gets through the lineup, it helps to use other pitches that the batters havent seen yet. that’s why relievers can by with 2, bc they’re pitching one inning. see?
have you found any other Yankee fan that shares your view that Joba has only 2 pitches?
"Hold on while I celebrate his awesomeness."
if by awesomeness, you mean he he’s our 2nd best starter (trailing only Cy Young winner CC), then you should celebrate.
by Travis G on Jun 21, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't talk down to me, ass
I’m not saying Joba can’t throw 4 pitches, I’m saying his changeup and curveball aren’t as good as you think.
And using your logic, why doesn’t he use his fastball more early in the game, then work off that with breaking stuff later? He’s throwing 3-2 sliders from the first inning on, which is why it takes him a million pitches to get through 6 innings.
I know what I"m watching, you’re the one talking about Joba based on what you hope for him, I’m going off what I’ve seen.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 23, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has two pitches
Joba has 4
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 20, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Joba at times seems to thrive on emotion...
however, as a starting pitcher one of the most important things is to be in control of your emotions and not get too far up or down. Relievers can thrive on it a bit more but not to the point where it compromises their concentration or effort. Joba continues going through the growing pains we see in most young pitchers with a lot of expectations. Look around the league at guys like Brandon Morrow, Max Scherzer, Clayton Kershaw. All big time prospects struggling in the majors, especially with control/walks.
Furthermore, Morrow and Scherzer intially saw time as relievers where they had a lot more success than they are experiencing now. There’s just a lot bigger learning curve as a starter in the majors. Joba is not an exception.
I have heard a lot about him moving back to the pen though after he reaches his “innings limit”. Its an interesting concept, its hard to say a lot about how it will affect joba in the long run because I just dont recall a lot of teams taking this approach with such a player. The bottom line as far as that goes is not to endanger his future or see him regress as a result of placing him back in the pen for the stretch.
by Ozone on Jun 19, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
whoa!
let’s all calm down. Joba pitched 6 ip, gave up 3 runs. yeah, and?… you’d think he pulled a Wang and gave up 8 runs in 1.2 ip! people are talking about CMW as if he pitched a CG shut out – he was worse than Joba yet gets defended while Joba gets ripped?!
the Yankee pitchers gave up 3 runs in 3 straight games. i’ll take that any day of the week. the Yanks have a good enough offense that they should win 80% of those games. 2 runs scored in 2 games is why they lost – its not due to the pitching actually.
Joba is currently our 2nd best starter and you wanna move him to the pen? and what’s been so great about CMW? am i missing something on him?
by Travis G on Jun 19, 2009 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No you're right
I really don’t understand what exaclty Joba has to do in order to shut this crap up.
I mean going by stats no one can refute the fact that Joba was a dominant reliever. But honestly who the hell cares if no one can get him the ball? But would that even have mattered yesterday?
He is inconsistent, but so was CC Sabathia at this age. You can’t give up on a guy like this already, you need to be patient.
I know that’s damn near impossible for some Yankee fans, but I don’t care about that. You need to build up your pitchers.
It is hard to look at pitchers in a situation like Papelbon and say they did it right, or even to look at Justin Verlander and say why the hell can’t Joba go out and be like that?
Really, the guy we should be looking at is Andy Pettite. HE is the one occupying Phil Hughes spot.
Id rather move him to the pen if he can’t get his crap straightened out. At least there would be no worry about ""ruining his arm in the pen""(if that actually made sense to begin with).
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 19, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Topic
is just getting old.. Joba needs at least 1 full season or 2 as a starter to get him into the ACE role that everyone is dreaming of. I say he is doing pretty well considering that he came out of a bullpen pitching only 2 innings at the most. His arm needs to build strength, His mindset has to change and develop to be a starter give the guy a break. What we should be asking the Yankees organization is To get a new hitting coach because the Team completely lost their pop in their bats.
by YANK77 on Jun 19, 2009 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
coaching is horrible
yes yes yes
they all must go….this team is much better than the way they play and have played, poor coaching and you can play 100 games of pool and have tons of pies, its about aoching and being prepared, we seem to loose focus aftre we hand in our lineup card
by Captain Yank on Jun 19, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jays fan in peace...
S-H-I-T lay off the lad … Joba is GOING to be a very good starter for a very long time. No question the guy is mentally wired to be a closer – BUT he has the stuff – and eventually the maturity – to be a number one starter type guy for years.
As a Jays fan one thing we know is young starters – last night we used our 2,345th rookie staring pitcher of 2009. The good news for us is we still have two more real good ones left in the high minors ready for show time (Castro and Rzepczynski or Rz-ski to Jays fans).
Back on Joba – let the kid breathe – you’ve got yourselves a winner there.
by Mylegacy on Jun 19, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Its really a shame that many Yankee fans simply go by ‘results’ of young players.
It really doesn’t make any sense whatsoever to not try and develop you young players.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 19, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
