Game 61: Another Subway Series (ho hum!)

by Ed Valentine on Jun 12, 2009 6:00 PM EDT in Game Threads

New York Mets at New York Yankees, Jun 12, 2009 7:05 PM EDT

Current Series

3 game series vs Mets @ Yankee Stadium

New York Mets Amazin' Avenue @ New York Yankees Pinstripe Alley Friday, Jun 12, 2009, 7:05 PM EDT Yankee Stadium Livan Hernandez vs Joba Chamberlain Partly cloudy,rain. Game time temperature around 75. Complete Coverage >
Sat 06/13		4:10 PM EDT
Sun 06/14		1:05 PM EDT

Whether we like Interleague play or not (and I don't) another Subway Series starts tonight in the Bronx. Both teams are scuffling a little, so this weekend is about which team will get itself pointed back in the right direction.

Hopefully, Joba Chamberlain can give the Yanks a leg up tonight on doing just that.

Lineup

New York Mets @ New York Yankees

06/12/09 7:05 PM EDT

New York Mets	New York Yankees
Alex Cora - SS	Derek Jeter - SS
Fernando Martinez - LF	Nick Swisher - RF
Carlos Beltran - CF	Mark Teixeira - 1B
David Wright - 3B	Alex Rodriguez - 3B
Ryan Church - RF	Robinson Cano - 2B
Gary Sheffield - DH	Jorge Posada - C
Daniel Murphy - 1B	Hideki Matsui - DH
Brian Schneider - C	Melky Cabrera - LF
Luis Castillo - 2B	Brett Gardner - CF

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Comments

Cano batting 5th again? Hrm.

"Even Napoleon had his Watergate." —Yogi Berra. Quite true.

by dzawaki on Jun 12, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions

Right, we sure didn't need that home run

by cph on Jun 12, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I wasn't really complaining, just intrigued.

I’m just floating this out there, but what do you folks think about the concept of Cano hitting 2nd when Damon’s not in the lineup?

"Even Napoleon had his Watergate." —Yogi Berra. Quite true.

by dzawaki on Jun 12, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions

just cuz he hit a HR tonight?

I liked the idea of hitting Cano 9th the past few games.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions

No, not just because.

Remember when he hit 2nd earlier this season? Made me wonder if he’d be as successful in that spot on a more regular basis.

"Even Napoleon had his Watergate." —Yogi Berra. Quite true.

by dzawaki on Jun 12, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think you take

Damon out the 2 hole tho.

Id rather Posada bat 5th personally. Cano just doesn’t fit in the 5th hole. Id rather Swisher there, he will prolong more innings.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Also, El Duque is with the Rangers now?

"Even Napoleon had his Watergate." —Yogi Berra. Quite true.

by dzawaki on Jun 12, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions

Isn't El Duque

like 60 Y/o now?

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions

A friend of mine have this bit we do whenever he's in the news.

PERSON ONE: I hear [whatever it is about El Duque].
PERSON TWO: Really? He’s still pitching?
PERSON ONE: Guess so.
PERSON TWO: How old is he?
PERSON ONE: I dunno, like… eighty.

"Even Napoleon had his Watergate." —Yogi Berra. Quite true.

by dzawaki on Jun 12, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Err, a friend of mine *and I.

"Even Napoleon had his Watergate." —Yogi Berra. Quite true.

by dzawaki on Jun 12, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Joba's and Livan's stats are eerily similar

both 1.38 WHIPS and 3.82/3.73 ERA through the first inning
and their first innings were the same too!
dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

by Brian5517209 on Jun 12, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions

....

Joba was at 31 pitches before the inning…68 now?

2 runs in, HBP and a walk. NICE!

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:08 PM EDT reply actions

74! Now!

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions

Joba is the best starter ever

So glad we don’t use him in the 8th inning so he can give us 3 quality innings at the beginning of the game.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 12, 2009 8:10 PM EDT reply actions

Well who takes his place?

Hughes? He does the same crap.

Ian Kennedy? Really?

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions

At least if Hughes was in the rotation

you’d have someone at the back end of the bullpen to call on in a tight spot.

Say, like in the 8th inning at Fenway Park with a couple runners on.

At this point, they’re wasting Hughes and ignoring their bullpen issues at the same time. Wahoo!

by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 12, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions

actually

Joba more then likely would have been brought in exactly where Hughes was.

So Joba would have been spent anyway.

Nah..Joba to the pen still makes no sense.

CM Wang to the pen may make sense tho…..

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions

You're crazy

If Joba was in the bullpen, it would be as the 8th inning role. The only reason they’re keeping Hughes in long relief is because they want to keep him strong enough to rejoin the rotation after Wang bombs his next start.

They would have used Aceves/Tomko/Veras after Wang on Wednesday.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 12, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions

nah...

I still could care less about this tired argument. Yes, Joba’s looked electric in the 8th inning role.

I think CM Wang OR Hughes will do the same once this thing irons out.

Joba’s been better as a starter than Wang, and Hughes (and Pettite and Burnett)

So there’s really a NEED in the rotation. You can’t take this guy out of there.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I know it looks stupid right now

cuz 80 pitches, 3,1 innings, is not good

He aint gonna make it past 5 going like this

But he’s still the 2nd best starter on the team.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions

It looks even more stupid

when he’s pitching around the bottom of the Mets order every time through.

And there’s no way Hughes or Wang has the same electric two pitches for the 8th inning role that Joba has.

But hey, if you’re satisfied with Joba throwing 100 pitches through 4 or 5 innings every time out with very occasional exceptions, suit yourself.

Wang could be a Ramiro Mendoza-like bridge though. Same sinker (when it works.)

by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 12, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions

100 pitches through 5 innings would be great - too bad

he only made it through 4.

by cph on Jun 12, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Im definitely not Ok with Joba doing this

But I also know for a fact that Hughes was doing the same frickin thing.

Joba’s future is a starter. Would he look good as the setup, OF COURSE he would.

BUt who starts in his spot? Wang? I know you don’t want that.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Very true, but

if they’re hell bent on starting Wang until I try to overdose on sleeping pills, they have to come up with a plan RE: Joba/Hughes.

You can’t just leave Hughes in no man’s land, because there’s a GAPING hole in the bullpen that needs to be filled. Someone in the Wang/Joba/Hughes trio needs to be there in the 8th inning …. and Joba is the only one with experience in that area.

As for the people relying on Bruney, he has very little track record, and will be on the DL at least once more this season. I feel sick when I hear people eagerly awaiting his return … he’s done zip.

by New York Sports Jerk on Jun 12, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree on Bruney

I don’t think he’s a savior. He was pretty good in before he got hurt, but who the hell could rely on this guy coming back?

I don’t think Joba’s pitched himself out of the rotation. I’m only looking at the game on gameday so I don;t know much other than he thew a lot of ptiches.

I mean, I really doubt that all of a sudden Joba turns it on then he’s lights out again in the 8th. Who’s to say he does this same crap? I mean wasn’t Brad Lidge lights out last year, then all of a sudden he’s ’Pujols’ed again?

It could happen. I think you have to leave Joba there no matter this crappy outing.

It is either Wang or Hughes, and Wang’s gonna get one more shot. Hopefully you don’t OD on the Ambien….

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Is it possible for the Yanks to get a pitcher who can throw strikes?

Is their control this bad? Are they scared? Are they unable to “focus”? Is the mound bad? Are they trying to “nibble”? Or do they just suck?

by cph on Jun 12, 2009 8:15 PM EDT reply actions

Id say option #5

CC was successful last night unitl inning 8. Why? NO nibbling.

These guys make no sense when they pitch. Burnett, Joba and Hughes are just baffling. They have 95 mph + fastballs, but they just seem to have not a clue how to use them.

Actually its probably focus AND nibbling.

They obviously don’t suck, Joba was looking good until he started to nibble.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions

OK, so why do you think they nibble?

Lack of confidence? Is it part of the “game plan”? Do Joe or Dave think that’s the way to pitch? What could be the reason?

by cph on Jun 12, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I doubt its got a thing to do with Joe or Dave

Its that these guys think that MLB hitters will consistently chase pitches.

CC pitches to the corners, gets ahead, THEN tries to get you to chase. But even then, he doesn’t try to nibble. He may throw 1, MAYBE 2 in the dirt, but he’s always aggressive.

Burnett, Joba, even Pettite, ALWAYS trying to get swings and misses.

They aren’t aggressive, that’s the problem. When they get ahead, they nibble. They nibble until the count is full too, which drives the pitch count up.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Then you're basically saying they are stupid - at least from

a baseball/pitching perspective.

by cph on Jun 12, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions

yup...

in a sense they are all pitching like 8th inning pitchers. That’s what you do in the 8th. You get ahead, then you try to get K’s (for the most part).

Starters? No, you can’t strike everyone out unless you are a guy like CC, or Oswalt,…

I thought Burnett was taht dude, but so far he’s not.

Maybe it is Eiland? I don’t know. I know CC Sabathia is doing his own thing, Pettite knows how to battles so whatever he does it OK, but these other guys just don’t have a feel on their stuff.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Eiland must have something to do with this

He was, after all, not a very good major league pitcher; in fact, he was quite a bad pitcher. But these guys do more than nibble – they miss the plate by wide margins. It’s either a real stupid strategy or a simple inability to get the ball over the plate. Either one spells doom for the team, I am afraid.

by cph on Jun 12, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I'll say it now: TEX FOR MVP!

by BigSlim on Jun 12, 2009 8:21 PM EDT reply actions

can't disagree

I mean I still don’t think its a coincidence that he’s starting flipping out once A-Rod came back.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions

His season before this game started:

.291 BA, 20 HR, 54 RBI, .392 OBP, .641 SLG over 60 games (or a couple less because of that wrist soreness).

"Even Napoleon had his Watergate." —Yogi Berra. Quite true.

by dzawaki on Jun 12, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions

My bad, those are current stats, not pre-game stats.

"Even Napoleon had his Watergate." —Yogi Berra. Quite true.

by dzawaki on Jun 12, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions

its still puts him

right up there with Morneau and Uncle Fester aka Kevin Youkilis.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions

And at least Texiera

can hit.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:21 PM EDT reply actions

Nice, Tex.

"Even Napoleon had his Watergate." —Yogi Berra. Quite true.

by dzawaki on Jun 12, 2009 8:22 PM EDT reply actions

90 PITCHES!

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 8:31 PM EDT reply actions

Boy do I hate Brett Tomko

always had, always will.

by BigSlim on Jun 12, 2009 8:51 PM EDT reply actions

to the 10th power

by BigSlim on Jun 12, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions

If they do not figure out the pitching problem

We are DONE. I am sorry, Eiland does NOT impress me. Our starters can’t make it to the 8th, and if they do the bullpen blows up. None of our pitchers can get guys out without seemingly making 10 pitches per hitter. I am very unimpressed with Long and Eiland. Sure our hitters are taking pitches and getting walks but no one can drive em in consistently. Joba needs to start learning to go after these guys because great stuff or not, it doesn’t matter how good your stuff is if your relievers have to pitch 5-6 innings for you. I am very disappointed. With this much talent from top to bottom, the only people I lay the blame on right now are the coaches.

by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 12, 2009 9:03 PM EDT reply actions

I don't know..

I mean, of course they are the easiest to blame I guess, but its really not their fault the guy’s can’t execute.

Bottom line, you can’t walk guys. The way luck has been treating the Yankees this week, its bit them right in the ass when they start waling guys.

I mean I doubt anyone is telling them to walk guys. You can blame them for it, but its really not the coaches fault on that.

You have to give some credit to the Mets right now and the SUx the last series. They are just patient and letting the Yankees throw all their crap.

Maybe they need to teach aggressivenes? I don;t know if Eiland’s telling them to try to K everyone, if he is then he’s wrong.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

But that logic dictates then it is never the coaches fault for anything other than calling bad defensive shifts and running situations.

by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 12, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions

not really

I am saying that if Eiland is telling these guys to not be aggressive, then it is his fault.

I have no idea what he’s saying. Im saying its not really his fault that all these guys aren’t throwing the ball over the plate.

I mean if its something that he’s telling them that’s f’ing with their train of thought, then he needs to go.

But I mean this was the same guy who developed Joba, and Hughes and when Ian Kennedy was pretty good (one month..) Eiland looked like a genius then.

By no means do I say its never the coaches fault. I just don’t like it when in NY its ALWAYS the coaches fault.

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Whether we come back to win this game or not

We shouldnt be put in this situation to begin with.

by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Jun 12, 2009 9:07 PM EDT reply actions

Well even tho this game isn't on for me

at least the last 2 games allow some time to watch the NBA and CUp finals.

I know the Lakers are up 3-1, but its really been a great series(and could be 3-1 Magic too).

The CUp is incredible right now. If it really was fixed to go to 7 I could care less. It really doesn’t seem like it, but this is once of the best hockey series I’ve ever seen. Actually this whole playoff season for the NHL has been incredible

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 9:16 PM EDT reply actions