Thinking About Joe G. and Joe T.
by jscape2000 on Jun 12, 2009 12:23 PM EDT
12 comments
All respect to Ed, who's ready to turn the page, but it's taken me all morning to put my finger on why I'm not ready yet.
Last night sucked.
It's not because we lost our 8th straight to the Red Sox.
Not because Mike Mussina remains the last Yankee to beat the Red Sox.
Not because we blew an 8th inning lead with Mariano Rivera sitting on his 15 million dollar thumbs.
Last night sucked because it's the first time that I've watched Joe G. manage a game and had a Torre flashback.
Last night, there was nobody in the bullpen that Joe G. trusted with a 1 run lead between CC Sabathia and Mo. And rather than make a questionable choice in a winnable situation, Joe G. chose to make the wrong choice until the situation became unwinnable.
CC took the mound in the 8th having thrown over 100 pitches. Is a gassed Sabathia really better than any one else on the roster? That's the kind of thinking that put the Yanks back in Game 7 in 2003. Is Sabthia's 111th pitch better than Aceves 1st? As manager, you have to give your guys a chance to win, and a bases loaded jam with no outs in the 8th inning at Fenway is not that chance.
If CC takes the hill in the 8th, he has to go batter to batter. I understand if Hughes was not available to pitch consecutive days, but Dave Robertson, Brett Tomko and Jose Veras hadn't pitched since Tuesday. But wouldn't any of those guys have a better chance to keep a guy from scoring from first, rather than Aceves with the bases loaded?
This is the kind of garbage that got Joe Torre fired.
So now the front office has a dilemma. Do you stand pat, leave Joe G. with the bullpen he has, knowing that he's likely to mismanage another game because of it? Or do you trade away assets to give him the bullpen arm he thinks he needs?
Toss the imminent return of Brian Bruney into the discussion, and this becomes quite a quandary.
If you were GM, what would you do?
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It's a good thing fans don't run MLB teams
Because the turnover of the Yankees roster would be so constant that everyone will go broke having to buy a new jersey every other day.
by Ragnar808 on Jun 12, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why
should we trade for someone right now? The bullpen has been pitching great and keeping the team in the game…the fact is Girardi made a bad choice sending CC back out there and he doesn’t trust his young arms, but he does have vets like Veras and Tomko out there…Tomko was probably the best choice to be sent out there against Green and Pedroia then send in Coke for Drew
by bobdawg423 on Jun 12, 2009 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen issues
Personally I feel we don’t need to give away all our prospects to find an arm when we haven’t really given a chance for anyone but Mo, Bruney, and Aceves a chance to hold a lead. I feel like the only reason we throw out Coke is cause there’s a lefty up (I’m not a big fan of the lefty/lefty; righty/righty matchup advantage) and he looks like he’s got some good stuff to get a righty out (wait didn’t he do it last night but too little too late, and walked the lefty), Robertson is young so ya never know, and Tomko was a decent starter so we know he has the stuff (not saying he’s great), and Veras is well…. Farnswarth reincarnated so axe him or let him pitch when the game is out of hand. I think we have the tools esp. if Bruney comes back strong. I just don’t understand why we don’t give a chance to anyone else, but you won’t know until ya try….. and Joe G… like Torre just refused to give anyone a chance. Let em’ pitch for now and we can always make a move after the All-Star break
by bdman318 on Jun 12, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually last nights
game was killed by Wang’s bad start. This is why the guy only gets one more start and thankfully it will probably be against the Nationals.
There’s no reason to trade for bullpen help, they have Hughes in the pen for the time being, and should he falter again Id think Wang could be fine in the pen.
I’ve said it before, this team does regret giving away Kyle Farnsworth. The guy had his faults, and saying he’d be the team’s setup guy right now doesn’t say much, but it would be true. This is why the team’s bullpen wasn’t so bad as it is now the past few years. Farnsworth was pretty good.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What?
How does Wang’s bad start have anything to do with it?
by Ed Valentine on Jun 12, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hughes
I aint really sure how he sits with Girardi just yet, but as for setup guys I really don’t think there’s any other guy who would be better to spell CC last night.
But he was used up cuz of Wang’s start.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Simple
The Yankees need an effective 8th inning setup man who can throw strikes, get outs, and has some guts. They have that guy for the 9th inning but not the 8th and they need to find him.
by Drflyfisher on Jun 12, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Since
you mentioned Mike Mussina to be the last pitcher to win a game against the Redsox maybe they should give him a bonus.. and get him to play the next 11 games..
by YANK77 on Jun 12, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the bullpen is the weak link of the team
the Yanks are second in the league in runs, and first in OPS+. the offense is fine (save for maybe BA w RISP).
the rotation has the 7th worst OPS against (though that’s skewed a bit by Wang). with Hughes in his place, we should have at least an average rotation.
but the bullpen has the 4th worst OPS against. and i dont think its as simple as saying it’ll be better if/when Bruney and Marte return, bc who knows when that’ll be. Bruney thought he was ok the first time, but he wasn’t. he’s had many injuries in his short career. he’s hit the DL 3 times in the last 1.5 years. Marte’s a bit old, and hasn’t even been good when healthy (for us).
by Travis G on Jun 12, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
once this Wang/ Hughes
stuff evens out, the pen should be a lot better, tho that’s really not saying much cuz they are pretty inconsistent/horrible right now.
I don’t know about a trade, cuz that’s hit or miss too like any bullpen guy. The sad thing is you look at the Sux and their extremely good setup guy, Takashi Saito, and the fact they grabbed him off the “scrap heap”. Could have easily had a guy like that.
But you really can’t think like that tho. I mean Damaso Marte was an very effective reliever for much of his career. I don’t know what the hell’s been wrong with him since they got him, but even when he’s healty he’s been a waste.
I wouldn’t doubt that if the Yanks got a guy like Saito that since he was such a risk for the Sux, that just by sheer luck he would have been the complete opposite for the Yankees….
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 12, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tired cc was better option than alternatives imo
sabathia is a horse and he’s getting paid to go deeper into games than what is expected of most pitchers. i didn’t have a problem with him starting the 8th what with the mess that the jobaless pen is right now. he didn’t get anything over, aceves came in – made a great 2-2 pitch to youk that the unp refused to call and then got beat on the next offering. i still think a tired cc is your best option in that scenario.
by LongB on Jun 13, 2009 12:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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