Jose Molina - to start or not to start?
by 3460kuri on Apr 29, 2009 2:04 PM EDT
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PrintWe heard this argument last summer, and now we're hearing it again:
Jose Molina handles a pitching staff well and is an excellent defensive catcher. He has a great arm, throws out a ton of baserunners, and he should start more often.
I won't deny that defensive is important, but how can you justify such an atrocious hitter staying in the lineup?
Throughout MLB last season, the average team attempted to steal 128 times, successfully swiping 93 bases and getting thrown out 35 times. If you plug in Molina's career 42% Caught Stealing rate, this would drop to 76 stolen bases with 52 thrown out; Posada 29% rate would show 91 stolen bases with 37 thrown out. So, over a theoretical 162 game season, using MLB averages, Molina would throw out 15 more baserunners than Posada. And then, if you gave each of them 600 plate apperances, Molina makes about 434 outs (.277 OBP) while Posada makes 372 (.380 OBP).
Who would you rather have, the catcher who throws out one more baserunner every 11 games, or the one who makes two fewer outs at the plate every 5 games?
How important is "handling a staff"? Doesn't it have a lot more to do with the pitcher than the catcher? Catcher's ERA is the most absurd statistic, even worse than pitcher wins and RBI. I'm certain that Posada caught nearly every inning thrown by Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Ross Ohlendorf, and Latroy Hawkins last season - that will certainly do something for your catcher's ERA.
EDIT: Posada has caught every inning thrown by Chien-Ming Wang this season. Do you honestly believe Posada's catching ability has anything to do with Wang's struggles?
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Its true
Molina is better served as a backup, but you can’t deny the fact pitchers seem to love throwing to him.
Posada is not as bad as people make him out to be, kinda like Jeter. Posada is 50x the hitter of Molina, so he’ll always start over him as long as he’s healthy.
But stats don’t show how much better Molina is behind the plate. Throwing runners out is one thing and quantifiable, but what about all the runners that don’t steal cuz he keeps them honest? What about all those NON-passed balls Molina stops.
If Molina could hit a lick, it wouldn’t even be close. Posada is decent, but Molina defensively is one of the top guys in the game. He just doesn’t play cuz he’s as bad as a pitcher at the plate (grand slam aside).
I believe Brett garner
is the atrocious hitter 220avg 4 RBIS 5SB 8 Runs.
Molina has 1 more RBI than him and HR.. plus contributed to 6 of the wins up to date because of good catching Held the Tampa rays to 1 stolen Base and one thrown out a team that has speed. Posada has 4 of the wins off course Posada scored RBI’s and HRs in those wins. No one has said that Molina is a better hitter just a better catcher. If he can hold a team from stealing bases the pitcher doesn’t have to be distracted with someone stealing bases. That breaks a pitchers state of mind and thats exactly what happen on AJ Burnetts last game at Fenway.
Molina gets in everyones head
there are really only 2 numbers you can look at for a catcher that being CERA and thrown out %. but those still dont even show the drop in the number of runners going against molina (only the best base stealers would dare run against molina)
still i dont think thrown out % and passed balls are molinas best skills. Molina keeps runners close (no secondary leads) and he puts his pitchers at ease. we’ve seen how bad wang can be with runners on base and that goes back before this season. i think the pitchers just feel more comfortable with molina behind the plate right now.
Posada will get better as the season goes on i think hes still not up to speed but hell get there. what girardi needs to do now is to keep all his pitchers on track and if that means sitting posada one day so that burnett can work with molina he needs to do that.
theres no reason right now that posada should be starting more games at catcher than molina. the yanks are winning with molina and they need to save posada for the stretch run when hes gonna be effective and can be more valuable.
My point is that Molina is such a terrible hitter that it completely negates his defensive value. When you make an out at the plate 72.3% of the time (.277 OBP) you simply cannot throw out enough baserunners or handle a pitching staff well enough to make up for it. You simply cannot. CC Sabathia, Carlos Zambrano, Micah Owings, and Yovani Gallardo all have a higher career OPS than Molina, and they’re pitchers. I’d rather have CC DH every game than Molina catch every game.
Posada is an average defensive catcher. He may not be an asset behind the plate, but her certainly isn’t a liability.
And do any of you honestly believe that Catcher’s ERA is a meaningful statistic? Posada has caught every inning that Chien-Ming Wang has thrown this year. He’s caught games where the Yankees lost 15-5, 10-2, 22-4, and 16-11. Do any of you honestly believe that his game calling ability is the true culprit here?
Yanks2609
I think Molina is catching for AJ and Hughes (now) and Posada is catching for Joba, CC, Wang, Pettite. Like someone else mentioned on another blog maybe Molina should catch one game for Wang and CC this way 3460kuri will be happy his ERA will then be the same as Posada. If you go back to last season Molina caught all Games for Mike Mussina how many games did he win.
How did Joba pitch so well???
I mean Jorge caught last night… so Joba should have tanked, right?
While CERA is an interesting stat, I don’t put a whole lot of faith in it. Sure the catcher calls the pitches a lot of the time, but the execution and location of that pitch are the true determining factor of the success of that pitch. And that all falls on the pitcher’s shoulders.
Case in point: last night in the ninth- did Jorge suddenly start calling a bad game?? No, it was the pitchers’ lack of execution that did them in. Jorge is, and will remain the starting catcher. The only debate on this issue is here- not in the clubhouse.
Happy for Jorge
Even though I favor Molina as the primary catcher (60/40 split) and Jorge as the primary DH, I see how well Jorge worked with Joba last night.
But as things got a little loose in the 9th inning, I started to wonder whether Molina should be a late-game defensive replacement when he doesn’t start.
Oh, MY GOD.
Now you’re blaming Abaladejo’s poor performance on Posada? Right after Posada guided Joba for 7 innings of pretty good pitching?
Puh-leeze. And I was in your corner before you made that senseless remark.
posada
dropped a million balls tonight and look horrible behind the plate…pretty sure molina wouldn’t do that
Here's how numb nuts
Baseball is all about pitching! Hits only hit mistakes.
you're an idiot.
Posada is NOT that bad. Not even using hyperbole there either, Posada is actually a well above average catcher.
The guy has been starter FOR OVER 10 FRICKIN YEARS!!!! I don’t ever remember Andy Pettite or David Wells having a problem with him.
Look, I used to play ball and I used to pitch. I know why some pitchers like certain catchers. Its cuz of superstition. Ballplayers are superstitious, and regardless of how good one catchers is compared to another, a pitcher is going to like throwing to one catcher over another.
Whether its cuz they threw a better game with one catcher over the other, or maybe cuz one catcher is FAT so you feel like your throwing to a barn, that is why.
Jorge is a good catcher. He misses a lot of balls, but I recall Molina doing some of the same crap. Jose if he could hit a lick would be an All-Star, but Jorge CAN hit and is one of the best hitting catchers in the game. You don’t start Molina over this guy.
Where'd you play ball?
Dude, if Burnette is more comfortable pitching to Molina than you start him when Burnette pitches . . . its not an all or nothing response (either Molina all the time or Jorge) you can do both; way to take the bait though; and unless you played major college baseball or in the minor leagues I could give a fuck if you played baseball; I had a partial scholarship offer to play baseball at UNC but opted for to run track at Georgia instead. And please don’t even respond if you played baseball in New York, the most overrated talent bed in America bar none.
You guys haven’t been relevant in terms of producing professional athletic talent since the 70s. . . you overhype your top basketball talent and they fall flat on their face (See Telfair, Felipe Lopez, Omar Cook). Compete in the south and then’ll you get some respect from me.
Just cuz I didn;t play professionally
or made up some story that I got a scholarship to UNC means nothing. I pitched and played baseball. I played in highschool, in NY, so what? I could give a shit if you failed in the minors too. It doesn’t matter. The guy is doing the same thing. Competition may be better, but its still baseball.
I could give a rats ass about who the hell failed in basketball or who was the next Marbury.
as a side note, I know Lamar Odom is not bad, he’s from NY…..
You know what, fellas
I could really care less who played what, or where. Your little pissing match does nothing to enhance this site, or add to everyone else’s enjoyment of being here. If you can’t have an intelligent conversation w/o the insults then please keep it to yourselves. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS or you will both be outta here.
by Ed Valentine on May 4, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
molina
He doesn’t convince me to be honest I watched him miss 2 foul balls the other night that should have been caught the expression on Texeira’s face was priceless when Molina didn’t catch that foul ball.
he sucked ass
I could of caught that ball.. I say trade him for Bengie Molina his brother… at least he can hit.. and give them Melky or Matsui (he is getting old) We don’t need any more older players.. But the yankees GM will probably get another shitty over-priced 30 something Player.. TIME TO GET RID OF GIRARDI or Brian cashman.
dude
I say trade him for Bengie Molina his brother… at least he can hit.. and give them Melky or Matsui (he is getting old) We don’t need any more older players..
Benjie Molina will be 35 in two months.
Molina
Molina looked really bad and it wasn’t 1 but 2 foul balls. Those plays have to be made I’m sorry. And I agree we need to stop paying these older players big money to come in and not produce. The Yankees need a farm system built up this has beed a problem with them for years even in their dominent years in the 90’s you could see a problem coming in the future.
Yankee supporter forever!
Cervelli played well yesterday
It was only one game, but he looked as capable as Molina behind the plate, he has a cannon arm too.
It was only one game, but it WAS against Yankee killer Jeremy Guthrie and he hit well. Plus if Cervelli gets on base the guy is light years faster than Molina.
THe Yanks should be fine with him behind the plate. As for hitting we all saw what Ramiro Pena was, I don’t think Cervelli will end up being any better a hitter in his time here, but who knows?
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