What does Granderson mean for the future?
by Travis G on Dec 8, 2009 6:15 PM EST
in Analysis
103 comments
'Grandy' (we can call him that now) is a 28-year-old All-Star centerfielder with a .272/.344/.484 (113 OPS+) career batting line. He's stolen 67 bases (with 17 CS), for an average of 16 per season.
He's a lefty that does not hit lefties well (.614 career OPS) and strikes out a lot (618 in 674 games).
His defense has declined (overall) the last four years (UZR's of 14.1, 12.9, -8.9, 1.6), so it's not a given that he plays center for the Yanks, who already have two quality centerfielders. If another outfielder is not brought on board, Joe Girardi will have to solve that problem (a nice one to have).
If Grandy plays center, we'll have one of the weakest hitting leftfielders in the game (in Melky/Garnder). If Grandy plays left, his offense will only be about average for the position. I'm of the opinion that, unless Damon/Bay/Holliday is signed, Grandy should play left, and center should remain a platoon of Melky and Gardner. Their defense has been better over the last two years than Grandy (.8 and 2.3 UZR for Melky, 15.4 for GGBG).
As for the free agents, they immediately get less leverage now that the Yanks have a plus (and relatively cheap) leftfielder. If Damon/Boras come down on their demands, would the Yanks go for a two-year, $20 million deal at this point? Are Holliday and Bay still in consideration? Is Matsui still in the picture? Is one of Melky/Gardner on the trading block now?
The lineup looks to be largely set for 2010. The Yanks have stated they want to keep the payroll below $200 million, and there are gaping holes in the starting rotation. Girardi has also mentioned that he wants to keep the DH spot open to give half-days off to A-Rod, Jeter and Posada. It doesn't look like any more money will be spent on position players. The next major move will almost certainly involve a pitcher.
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goddamn.
i love granderson, and he’s awesome and all, but giving up AJAX? aww, man.
he hit 28 of his homers against RHPs...
the short right field porch in the yankee stadium is made for lefties like him. I wouldn’t be surprise if he will hit 35 next year.
but AJAX, IPK, COKE and another prospect...
could have produced an ACE.
Unless the other prospect
was named Jesus
funny how that works...
and given what IPK and Coke are…
Youre probably looking at Montero and Joba.
Is that what an ace is worth?
"It ain't over till its over"---
look
i agree with you. We now have 3 solid starters for the top of the rotation. I don’t think we trade anymore big prospects. I look at some posts and they piss me off. Like only sign Bay and lackey and we are done, or trade everyone for Doc because we have no budget and don’t expect to have one in the future. Fans need to get real. We need another bat and another arm but neither is going to be a big money signing. With all that said I will be really pissed if Montero goes anywhere.
How come all you listed about Granderson were negatives?
And, I was surprised at some of those lines. I thought Granderson was a speedster. Only 16 stolen bases per season? He either just never tries to steal, or is an awful baserunner, or doesn’t have as much speed as I originally thought. If it’s just because he never runs, then I hope he starts running a LOT more with the Yankees.
Also, about his defense, also declining over the years? I thought he was a great defender? I think he’ll play center regardless, but still, I thought he was an above average outfielder at least. Hopefully he improves that.
It looks like Granderson has been a declining player over the last few years. Hopefully a change in scenery, a new stadium, and a new team will help him stop that. He’s young. He’s in his prime. He shouldn’t be declining. Hopefully he turns it around next year the way Swisher did this year.
Couple of questions about him. How is his speed? How is his arm strength? Not sure on those.
not all negatives
his batting line is clearly a positive, considering his position. as is his contract.
Hate this trade
He’s an OK player (as we will find out next year) and we gave up a lot for him. I’d rather see what Jackson becomes. My gut is screaming at me that this one will bite us in the ass.
When Have The Yankees Ever Been Bit By a Farmhand They Traded?
All the hype about Jackson was created by the Yanks. Remember when Jose Tabata was considered untouchable? Remember how Ian Kennedy was Mike Mussina V.2? If any of these players turn into anything great, they will be back in pinstripes. With that said, I am not a big fan of this deal. I just think Jackson couldve been used in a Halladay deal.
Congrats, Yankees.
Curtis is a good player, and more importantly, a fantastic person and a great ambassador for the game. You are fortunate to have him.
I’m sure you all will come to have a love hate relationship with him. As in, you’ll love him when he’s hitting righties, and hate him when he’s hitting lefties. But he’s a great fielder, a great runner, and overall his hitting is pretty darn good.
Oh, and A+ for unofficially keeping the “Grandy” nickname. I think it would break my heart if you gave him a new one.
Good luck Curtis.
He's an all-star CF
I wonder why everyone is up in arms about this deal?
it's only a few people
if you notice the poll on this website, 57% of people on here think the trade was a positive
He cant hit lefties, he's average in the field and..
we just won a title without him. Game on the line, I still would rather see Damon or Matsui at the plate than Granderson. If there is anything the Yanks need, its another SP. There is no guarantee Andy can pitch as well as he did, and Hughes will be hampered by the Hughes rules, and Joba, is well, Joba. Getting Halladay was important than this.
I dunno about this
Seems good, just hope AJAX doesn’t make us regret it
"We're only going to score 17 points?"
Posted this in one of the other Granderson threads..
Did anyone hear that he doesn’t want to even be traded to NY? If it’s true (hopefully not) I wouldn’t want someone who doesn’t want to be a Yankee.
Saying that, I think he will bounce back like Swisher did.
My bet is
He puts up Swish like stats with more speed.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
Why??
He’s like figgins with more power. And he’s an everyday OFer
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
I may be wrong but Figgins would have costed less, and wouldn’t have cost us the prospects. Again if I’m wrong let me know, still like Granderson better though.
by Gelatin on Dec 8, 2009 8:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Trading a bunch of Prospects for Halladay= 3 more titles at the least
Granderson will equal a bunch of strikeouts. Pitching wins titles. Would you rather the Sox get Halladay to go with Beckett, Lester and Dice K? I bet you Granderson doesnt do much against that staff.
I think you may be overstating not having a LF that can hit
when the Yankees already have a plus-hitting 2B, SS, and C that most other teams lack.
true
I’m pretty sure most teams DON’T have one of the best infields in MLB history.
I still think there’s a good shot Damon comes back to play LF though, or DH. If Damon comes back? That gives the Yankees a VERY formidable offense, and a LF that can hit.
Unless Cashman wants speed, I would rather have Matsui DH.
by Gelatin on Dec 8, 2009 9:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
if Damon comes back he will DH
keeps his bat in the lineup and his defense off the field, let Melky play left
by Brian5517209 on Dec 9, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Lineup:
CF: Granderson
SS: Jeter
1B: Texiera
3B: A-Rod
DH: Posada
LF: Damon
2B: Cano
RF: Swisher
SP1: CC
SP2: Halladay (Even with AJax gone, I still wouldnt be surprised to see him in Pinstripes but with Hughes, Montero, and Dunn gone + Melky)
If not, Lackey
SP3: Burnett
SP4: Pettite
SP5: Chamberlain
There's no way that Granderson should lead off over Jeter
Jeter thrived in that role this year. Why take him out? There was a reason that Jeter and Damon were switched. Jeter also hits into a ton of DPs. And Granderson has a low OBP. I would go like this.
Jeter
Damon
Tex
A-Rod
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Granderson
Melky
CC
A.J.
Pettitte
Lackey/some other FA acquisition
Joba/Hughes/Wang
Something of that sort.
That is an embarassment of riches...
Personally, I’d like to see:
Jeter
Granderson
Tex
A-Rod
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Melky/Gardner
If Damon and not Matsui, I’d probably put Granderson 6th
by PortlandYankee on Dec 8, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
And on the pitching option, personally I’d rather the Yankees not pick Halladay and go for a younger arm. Johnson, King Felix and sell the farm for him.
Hughes, Monetero, Dunn, Melky, and Cano for either would be enough: then you sign a replacement for Cano and you pick up Mike Gonzalez for the lost production of Hughes in the Pen.
please refer to the “Topics that are forbidden” thread. Spelling his name wrong doesn’t get you off the hook.
Montero better not be traded
Posada is already on his last legs as catcher. If Montero is being traded in a package for Maurer, I’d allow it. That aint happening though.
I didn't say fantastical...
but comments in favor of trading Jesus are blasphemous, and not allowed on this site.
In all seriousness, though, Hughes, Montero, Dunn, Melky, and Cano for one pitcher? Are you crazy? That’s too much even for a guy like King Felix. You’re giving them one of the best 2B in the game, a potential All-Star pitcher in Hughes, a potential MVP candidate in Montero, a decent CF, and a future reliever? Too much for any one player unless his name begins with an R and ends in uth.
I dont like this trade..
i would of preferred we get a good pitcher with AJAX and Ian Kennedy and COKE value… someone like Rick Porcello.. Good pitcher.. Small salary…. Detroit is definitely the winner here.. they get alot more in return..
You're overvaluing IPK and Coke.
Porcello is a future ace, at least a #2 or 1a type.
IPK is a 4th starter at the very best, probably a long relieve, 5th starter, AAA type.
Coke…..addition by subtraction.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 8, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
I am not overvaluing no one..
i am just saying Three for 1 deal… no matter who it is better help you win some games and pitching is what we need. Damon is just as good as granderson.. not counting damons terrible arm. and yes i know Porcello was not available i was just using him as example.. for a pitcher..
Granderson cost a whole lot less
and is a much better fielder (arm aside), is younger, steals bases, has more power and of course more speed
…other than that, Damon’s as good…..
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 8, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Granderson Is Better Than Damon
Damon is more clutch though, wont strike out as much, more patient, had a better .obp, slg, and ops. Also stole only 8 less bases while striking out 50 times less. Damon is slowed down by his rings a bit though. Damon is a winning ball player, Granderson? Who knows.
Granderson defense>>>>>>>>>>Damon defense
and at a more premium defensive position
and im not saying Granderson is a gold glove, but Damon is just that bad
by Brian5517209 on Dec 9, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Not comparing their defense
First of all Damon had a better year than Granderson and helped lead the Yanks to a title. Im saying Granderson will play CF, so Melky will be moved. Teams usaually put their best arm in RF, not LF. So it would make sense to play Melky in RF, and Damon can play left and DH at times.
Jesus there's nothing wrong with this trade...
Ganderson is a 4 WAR player…AJAX is agreat prospect to but he has a long way to go tho be a 4 WAR avg player. Granderson is essentially Austin Jackson except proven and has more power. Also look what we gave up.. Phil Coke, did those two WS bombs no convince u we can live with out him? or ian Kennedy…what in Kenndy’s career has made you look at him and say this guy is going t be dominant…Nothing so far. IPK may develop into an ace but that like rolling a dice and hoping to land sixes… We still have Joba, Hughes and Montero not to mention we didn;t exactly give up the farm for an ALL STAR center fielder. Plus ganderson is under our control for the next 4 years and comes at a a relatively low price.
Now on Halladay, he would require us to give up the farm for a guy who pitches here for one year and is in his mid 30’s. Halladay is a great pitcher but we can do without him. There’s still always Lackey or other pitchers we can look at. And if the yankees are really desperate for pitching after this year Halladay is available w/o the need to giv eup the entire farm system.
If you trade those same prospects for Halladay
Would you still rather have Granderson or would you like Halladay instead? Thats my problem with the deal. We need pitching more than a guy that cant hit lefties and strikes out a ton.
there is no way IPK becomes an ace
hes a number 4 at best, he does not have the stuff to become an ace
by Brian5517209 on Dec 9, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Still a better package than the Mets sent for Santana
Plus Halladay has forced the teams hand with his deadline. Would they rather take a deal like that, or see him walk after this year and get nothing?
Has anyone realized...
That Granderson is a lefty himself. In this new park. With that short porch? He hit 30 home runs in that behemoth of a park in Detroit. I know they say they’re going to try to fix the wind tunnel effect but if they don’t, he has a legit celing close to 40 HR’s no? I mean this guy hit 30 last year! Damon hit 24 in this park last year on his way downhill, Granderson’s lefty swing could easily mean 30 is VERY likely and probably more.
I didn’t like trading away AJAX and maybe I’m talking myself into this one, but I see Granderson being a nice fit in this stadium, and a nice enough personality to add to the mix as well.
So where are we at with the budget?
The initial calculation by Jscape had us at 176.7
Wang is gone (-7.5), so is Bruney (-2) and Coke (-.4). Call it 10. Let’s say Andy comes back for 12. That puts us up +2. And Granderson is about 9.
That’s 188. If Cashman is pretty serious about keeping it at 200, that says to me that we’re looking at one more FA pitcher in the 10-12 range, or one of Damon/Matsui and then one pitcher (probably a Harden/Duscherer type), likely totaling no more than 15.
And they would still come in under last year.
What this means to me:
The Yankees really AREN’T in the market for Doc, and probably not Lackey, either.
The Yankees really aren’t interested in Holliday or Bay (though Holliday would still look great in LF).
The Yankees probably ARE interested in a bargain #3, like a Randy Wolf type.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 8, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Granderson is only making 5.5mil next year
That is the one number that really makes this a great deal for the Yankees. I dont love this deal but the money is good. I just hope Long can work his magic.
You don't
pass up a good deal for another deal that may or may not happen.
Santana’s deal turned out bad for the Twins. but that was an talent evaluation error on their part, it is easy now to view with hindsight, but at the particular point Jon Lester’s name was throw around too, he has been a more valuable pitcher than Johan Santana in EVERY season since that trade.
So you have to trust your talent evaluation here. just because the last time that something like this happened ended up with the other team getting hosed, doesn’t mean you can or will hose a different team in similar fashion.
That Twins deal looked like garbage the moment it was signed
It wasnt that it went bad, it was bad from the moment Carlos Gomez was the center piece. Gomez makes Melky look like Manny in his prime.
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