A Halladay for the Holiday
by jscape2000 on Dec 8, 2009 11:00 AM EST
in New York Yankees Analysis
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PrintOver at Fanhouse, former MLB scout and friend of Pinstripe Alley Frankie Piliere assesses a potential trade from the Jays' perspective.
1) He thinks there's no way that the Jays should expect two of Hughes, Joba, Montero and Austin Jackson.
2) He thinks getting one of those star potential players is the only way to avoid a Twins-Santana situation. Quantity won't make up for quality.
3) Because the Jays have done well developing hitters in the last few seasons, the 2 pitchers are more valuable to the Jays than the 2 position players.
4) He thinks Joba has just about reached his potential- a 2 pitch thrower who will perform as well as the stuff he brings to the mound that day allows him to (not far off from my own assessment).
5) He thinks that Hughes is the centerpiece, but another pitcher or two will be involved.
Some of the combos he floats (not suggesting he was in on the negotiation, but in his assessment) Hughes plus a MLB ready player like IPK or Aceves plus a top flight prospect like Manny Banuelos, Hector Noesi, DJ Mitchell or Jeremy Bleich.
A deal for Hughes, IPK and Banuelos makes me flinch so much that I don't think I'd do it once I start paying attention to the dollar signs. That's probably a sign that it's a strong proposal.
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But wait...
…I thought Joba had four “plus” pitches??? Isn’t that why people have been saying he should start?
by New York Sports Jerk on Dec 8, 2009 11:22 AM EST reply actions
meh...
AJ Burnett gets away with 2.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 8, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
That's not the argument.
And you know it.
by New York Sports Jerk on Dec 8, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
the 4 pitch thing was never mine...
I always said, give him a shot as a starter. You have to. He was a starter, so he deserves a shot at it in the bigs.
Bullpen is for the Phil Coke’s of the world.
If he fails as a starter, (which is to be continued) then throw him in the pen.
"It ain't over till its over"---
Ok, it wasn't your argument...
…but it’s definitely part of THE argument people have made. If it’s not yours, you don’t have to waste time defending it.
The problem with your opinion is that you’re not including a definition of “failure.” Joba will always show signs that he can be a starter, because he has enough raw stuff to have occasional brilliant starts. As long as he does that, people will hold out hope that he’s putting it together, regardless of the reality of the situation.
by New York Sports Jerk on Dec 8, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
the reality...
is, a shot at being a starter, was last season, and this one in 2010.
Is that it? I dunno, but a shot at being a starter is what kid who’s a starter all his career, like Joba has been, should get.
The only reason he was put in the bullpen was out of necessity. That’s it. He did great, yes.
That meant nothing as to leaving him there and never again giving him a shot to prove if he’s a starter.
He needs time. I don’t care what other teams have done, all I know is that Joba on the Yankees deserves a shot.
He pitched good every now and then in 2009.
2010 they just have to leave him there, then assess.
If he’s atrocious or shows no growth, then they should probably look in another direction for a starter..either by the all-star break or next year.
That’s the reality. You just don’t make a starter into a reliever unless you have to or unless he’s given time to prove he’s not a starter.
What he showed last year, indicates he’s NOT a starter…but you don’t know it yet.
Kinda like the Knicks…2010 or Bust (bullpen) for Joba
"It ain't over till its over"---
If you're not a star by the end of your first full season you'll never improve?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
I wonder
if we could keep Hughes, Joba, and Montero. If we toss in a Brackman, IPK, AJax and some other minor prospects, I think the Jays could consider that. Of course, Halladay needs an extention, too
VA Yankee since 93'
Untouchables?
I thought that we made Ajax and Jesus untouchable? I dont see why in the world we would give a combo of either Joba and Hughes or Ajax and Jesus. Thats too much for a one year contract! ONE FLIPPING YEAR for our top prospect? GET REAL
don't give up Banuelos!
give up Bleich instead!
Is it just me...
but why is IPK at this point worth anything? Last time we saw him in the big leagues, he was lit up as a starter.
Last I heard, he made the AAA all-star game, but whether that means anything is questionable.
Can someone please enlighten me as to what IPK is really capable of/ worth?
Other teams like him b/c he showed very good control in the minors. Could be a decent number 5 guy in the NL. Not worth much to the Yankees tho.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 8, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Are y'all kidding me?
Granderson ain’t worth all this. Matter of fact, I would not make a deal for Granderson at all. It’s not necessary.
i'm actually more willing to part with Ajax+IPK +etc
mainly b/c they are unproven and joba and hughes have proved value in the major leagues.
I think AJax and IPK are worth hanging onto.
Why not give AJax the opportunity to win a job in spring training? I don’t think the Yanks necessarily need Granderson, to be honest. His splits are terrible, particularly against left-handers, that he’ll need to be platooned. To give up all that for what will be a platoon player is nuts.
Not close.
He needs another year at AAA. He’s been rushed through the system very quickly, if they are going to keep him, he needs more development at that level after a decent first season there.
by New York Sports Jerk on Dec 8, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget...
We were talking about one of AJax/Montero, and Joba/Hughes. Now, we only need to give up one.
Giving one up, and maybe a high-end prospect, with 1 or two lower level prospect, is reasonable for Doc, don’t you think?
A package starting with Joba or Hughes, and 2 prospects for a rotation with
CC/Halladay/Burnett/Pettite…. you wouldn’t do this? Come on…..
I know what everyone’s saying, Hughes has a chance to be a very good starter.. which is true. I for one can see positives for keeping either Hughes and Joba. If anything, Joba can be moved to a reliever, and be Mo’s heir apparent.
The Granderson Post
has been updated and moved to top of the frontpage.
Breaking news.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Possible trade for Halladay
Melky/Gardner – I would prefer giving up gardner, who’s older and doesn’t have much power. Would play center field for the jays, so they could move vernon wells to rf.
Hughes/Joba – Would rather give up joba, hughes shows more consistency and potential as ML starter.
1 or 2 additional prospects – maybe a high-ceiling low minors pitcher or maybe romine, since he’s blocked by jesus?
holliday
still way to much for holliday
BIG YANKEE FAN,FROM MASS. HAVE TO PUT UP WIYH ALL THESE HOLE SOX FANS
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