Joba vs. Hughes
by Travis G on Dec 3, 2009 4:00 PM EST
in Analysis
29 comments
To get Roy Halladay, the consensus seems to be that the Yanks would have to give up one of the duo. Who's more expendable in your opinion?
Both have their pros and cons.
Phil Hughes pros:
Longer pro career of successful pitching (sixth year with the organization).
Excellent at repeating his (by most accounts) flawless delivery.
Incredible as a reliever in 2009.
Great pitcher's body (6'5", 220) - could turn into a workhorse.
Cons:
Troubling injury history though only three big league years.
Inconsistent as a ML starter.
Never topped 86 ML innings.
Joba Chamberlain pros:
Incredible 'stuff,' better than Hughes.
Shown more as a ML starter than Hughes.
Pitched 157 innings this year without getting hurt.
Cons:
Has also had several (though minor) injuries in his early career.
Isn't in the best shape (part of the reason he fell in the draft), though he's gotten much better since college.
About a year older than Hughes.
Some 'talent evaluators' fear he may not be able to repeat his delivery consistently (see below).
[This was inspired by a post on Yankees 'N More]
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Who's more expendable?
This is a no brainer – either one is expendable if it means Roy Halladay on the Yankees.
Then the team would not need to sign Pettite.
1.CC 2. Roy 3. AJ with young arms sitting 4 and 5.
In the playoffs picthing wins liek defense in football
IT would be our best playoff 1-2-3 pitching combo in my lifetime as a yankee fan.
Same as last year – 3 days rest and it’s over.
Look at Joba and Hughes performance in the playoff’s this year.
Whatever Halladay cost let’s say 18-20 Mill minus the 10 Pettite would recive is a no brainer. If we did this t6hen we could get away with lettiing our rookies play the outfield and pitching the 4th and 5th spot. If August comes and we need a bat we then get one for the playoffs.
And where does this leave you in a few years, when Halladay and AJ are declining?
Joba and Hughes are still learning. There’s a steep learning curve to becoming great at the major league level… look at the first 4-5 years of most great pitchers’ careers, they’re rarely anywhere close to what they show later.
As to that best-in-lifetime stuff, not sure how old you are but IMHO the rotation in the late 1990s had some serious gamers: Pettitte; Cone; Wells; El Duque… I would have no hesitation in having and of them start any game in the postseason!
I say keep both
but I’d be willing to give up one of the two if it gets Halladay. If I had to give up one, it would probably be Hughes. Joba has more innings under his belt, and will get to go out and just pitch next year, without any limits. Hughes still needs one, maybe two years of “Hughes Rules” on him, or something like that. Plus Joba, like you said, has incredible, shutdown stuff, better than Hughes, and is less injury prone than Hughes is.
I’d still rather keep both though, and thats probably going to happen. I still believe that they should NOT get Halladay if it means giving up Montero and/or Jackson and/or both of Joba and Hughes. They should be untouchable, or close to untouchable, and I don’t think the Yankees need for Halladay is big enough where it makes sense to trade these guys.
Agreed.
I like where they’re headed right now, and Montero and AJAX just look too darn promising to give up. I have a very optimistic outlook on both Joba and Hughes (Joba especially). I say keep them and let Halladay go someplace else. Would anybody else miss seeing Jobas crazy fist-pumps after a good inning?
by Gelatin on Dec 3, 2009 6:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Also Agreed.
I’m also optimistic about both of them and I want to see them both stay Yankees, rather than give either one up for Halladay. Honestly, I feel good with the Yankees the way they are.
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Dec 3, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
I like both too much.
I want them to stay Yankees. It would kill me to become wildly successful with another team.
Yankees all day.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
"If you're not doing it right, you're doing it wrong. And there's no in between." ~Mark "Lunch" McKenzie
Joba easily.
He’s more in the mold of Burnett. Who, granted, is a very good pitcher, but obviously prone to wildness and his emotions.
Hughes is more likely to be an ace in the ML in my opinion. Sure, his velocity is less than Joba and that’s what everyone points to. But his developing cutter and knucklecurve that he’s had since he first came up are more important than his low 90’s fastball.
The real question here
isn’t ‘which is more expendable?’ The real question is, which guy do you think will have the longer, more successful career?’
In my opinion, that is going to be Hughes. I see him as more stable and a better bet to still be a good major league pitcher in 7-8 years. There are too many whispers about the health of Joba’s shoulder, about his attitude and his work habits, and too many questions about his inconsistent stuff.
To me, he is more likely to flame out quickly than Hughes is.
And you're an idiot.
Wish we could send you to Toronto.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
True, Toronto doesn't deserve that.
Perhaps a goulag instead.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 3, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
or Wyoming.
What the hell is Wyoming?
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 3, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
ICBM museum.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 3, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think I'll start saving my pennies...
looks like I’m gonna make a road trip to WYOMING.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 3, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, I actually liked it out there.
Miles and miles of nothing but knee high grass that just sways in the breeze. Very soothing. Plus I like missiles and secret government shit which there is plenty of out there.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 4, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Joba is definitely more expendable.
I say keep both, this is more of a make or break year with Joba tho.
They both could help as starters, possibly being very good starters. They each could also be the back end of the Yanks bullpen for the next 10 years.
But Joba is more expendable at this point, simply cuz I think he may be more injury prone.
"It ain't over till its over"---
Um. Minor Major quibble.
Joba is the player with the troubling injury history.
Hughes pulled a hamstring on the mound in his second career start. He had a cracked rib in 2008. I forget which injury his sprained an ankle while rehabbing.
Joba had tricep tendinitis in college (2006), then in 2008 he had rotator cuff tendinitis that ended his season.
Keep Hughes.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Hughes
has never had any injury relating to his arm. Joba has already had a shoulder injury, and there are a lot of whispers that his shoulder is still not right. Nobody knows for sure, I just think when you look back at it 10 years from now Hughes will have had the better career. That’s my gut feeling. But, who knows?
There were also more than a couple whispers about the problems AROD was going to face due to his surgery. Look how those ended up.
by Gelatin on Dec 3, 2009 8:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It is more than likely that both will be inferior to Roy Halladay for the next 4 or 5 years.
Send one, I don’t care who.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
will they BOTH be worse than Halladay.
cuz that’s what they want, both. And they want dessert too.
"It ain't over till its over"---
Really? Damn, I hadn't heard that part.
Screw em then, Anthropolychronopolis should call Bill Smith to ask what happens when you try and overplay your hand. Actually he doesn’t have to because I can tell him.You trade your franchise pitcher for a 4th outfielder, a guy you DFA two years later, a guy you traded for Jon freaking Rauch and a guy who’d piddling around in AA.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 3, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
The Board
After the reading the post the consensus is -Yes we can trade one plus some promising minor leaguers for Halladay. We can not treade both arms and veryone agrees.
Get Jeter is 6-7 rings and the Yankee dominance continues.
However, keeping both and taking a risk on Sheets or Harden might be smarter.
I would be very uncomfortable with Halladay on the redsox. I’m sure that would make most of you uncomfortable too next year come playoff time.
Joba vs Hughes
Baseball has become a now sport. Because of the $ and free agency, teams can’t really build for the future. Besides the Yankees usually get what they need. The future is the next 2-3 years. With that in mind, getting Halladay is a great move. As far as who to let go, I think Hughes would be the one. They’re both good, but one other thing to consider is that Mo isn’t getting any younger and the Yankees need to start grooming someone for that job and I think Joba is a better fit for that then Hughes.
I think Hughes is good but sometimes you have to give up something that may be better later for something that’s really good now and for the next 2-3 years.
team's are always building for the future.
The only “now teams” are the ones that spend like the Yanks and Red Sox, but even they have stocked farm systems and are building for the future.
Singing FA is nice…but when you have all the laundry list of busts that the Yankees have had before 2009…..it can hurt even the Yankees.
When a player like Melky Cabrera doesn’t pan out into who he’s supposed to be….is it all that big a deal financially? Absolutely not.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 4, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Joba Jewels ...
I’d like to see us move Joba to the pen and become the 8th inning guy and heir apparent to Mo when he retires at 65. I understand the innings cap and all on Joba, but I believe I’ve seen enough of him as a starter to realize his best role in helping the Yankees as out of the pen. I’d like to see us keep Hughes as well and work him into the rotation (so long as he doesn’t throw that straight-edged fastball of his).
That said, grabbing Halladay almost seems like piling on to me. I know it’s free market and all, and given the fact that the Yankees subsidize so many crappy teams that don’t care about winning, but I don’t think we need him.
Still, if I had to choose between Hughes or Joba, I’d let Joba go.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
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