Giving Javy his due

by LateInningRelief on Dec 23, 2009 5:45 AM EST Comment 10 comments

There's been a lot of grumbling about bringing Vazquez back for another round in the Bronx. The knocks on Javy are: (1) He's a NL pitcher; in his stints in the AL, he sucked. (2) He's not a big-game pitcher, with a mammoth 10.34 ERA in the postseason.

Let's look at (1): Javy had a great year for the White Sox in 2007: He went 15-8, with 213 strikeouts, a 3.87 ERA and a 1.14 WHIP. In an excellent breakdown of Vazquez, RAB points out just how strong the first half of his 2004 season with the Yankees was:

Through 18 starts, Javy averaged almost 6.2 innings per start, posting a 3:1 K/BB ratio and allowing just 47 runs through 118.2 innings.

Obviously, shortly after making the All-Star team, everything came unglued for him that year. Is he a guy who can't finish? No. Per LoHud:

Over his final 22 starts of 2009, Vazquez posted a 2.49 ERA with 160 strikeouts and just 29 walks in 155.1IP, while limiting opponents to a .217 average.

The guy had shoulder problems in the second half of 2004. Enough said.

In terms of (2): Vazquez has logged 15.2 innings in the post-season: 2004 with the Yankees and 2008 with the White Sox. Over those admittedly abysmal innings, he gave up 18 ERs. So let's take a similar sample size from Sabbathia for his 2007 and 2008 postseason appearances. In 19 IP for Cleveland and Milwaukee, CC gave up 20 ERs. Which tells you precisely what?

If you believe the maxim that, given enough postseason appearances, a guy's numbers will start to synch up with his regular season numbers, then what does that get us? Over his career, Vazquez is 15th on the active leaders rankings for WHIP. Click that link. Seriously, just click it. You know who shows up in the top 15? Aces, plus Mo and Trevor Hoffman. Guess where CC falls into that group? # 13.

Vazquez will be going into a contract year with a chip on his shoulder. His last experience in the Bronx was a disappointment, yes. But we got a #4 pitcher with a very real capability of pushing AJ and Andy (and, if the stars align, even CC) down the depth chart.

For the price of Melky and Mike Dunn? It's a no brainer. It's Vizcaino who makes this deal even moderately debatable.

Poll

What's the ceiling on Javy's role in 2010?

# 1 starter

3 votes

# 2 starter

46 votes

# 3 starter

52 votes

# 4 starter

26 votes

# 5 starter

3 votes

Bullpen

0 votes

130 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

Lets get real

Not a chance Javy Vasquez supplants CC as the #1. Not happening. I could see him being the #2 pitcher on the Yankees, most likely #3.

by BigDanz2000 on Dec 23, 2009 9:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

You never know

who will have an up year & who could have a down year. It’s unlikely — C.C. is a horse — but Javy has the talent & hopefully the maturity to have a standout season.

I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque

by LateInningRelief on Dec 23, 2009 9:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

It's amazing that the NYY Hype Machine

can transform an average outfielder into someone worth trading Javier Vazquez for. I guess the salary relief played a not insignificant role for the Braves.

That said, it would be amazing if Melky did hit 30 homers and OPSed .900 like all the Yankee fans predicted he would. I can imagine the cries of lamentation from the Bronx would be heard all the way in Boston.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Dec 23, 2009 10:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cashman is a Jedi and told Frank Wren that Frank Wren wanted Melky.

OR
Melky is the biggest name going to Atlanta but Vizcaino is by far the most important piece. The Braves unloaded about 8 million worth of salary and got a 18 yr old fireballer.

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Dec 23, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly...

Melky’s not the headliner of this deal..he’s simply the name everone knows.

Vizcaino is the big prize of the deal.

"It ain't over till its over"---

3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.

"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"

by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just curious

How many innings did it take Javy to give up 18 compared to CCs 20?Sabbathia went to a game 7 in the Alcs and without looking im guessing he pitched atleast 1 if not 2 more games in that comparison period.I do not know and don’t have time to look so someone help me please.

by cashman bashman on Dec 23, 2009 10:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

It's the in the post

Javy 15.2 IP – 18ER – 10.34 ERA
CC 19IP – 20 ER – 9.47 ERA

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by RangerSmurf on Dec 23, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Vasquez was hurt in 2004

we saw that he is very capable of pitching in NY. Did you see his first half? When he was healthy? He was Joe Torre’s selection to the All-Star Team. I agree with you. He deserves his due. I think he’s going to be a valuable piece to the Yankees in 2010.

by nyyrocks29 on Dec 23, 2009 3:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This is an excellent article.

I truly believe Javy will have a better year than Burnett this season and will consequently wind up as our #2 starter before all is said and done.

by Stephen K on Jan 2, 2010 2:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Completely agree

What I don’t understand is why only 3 people, including myself, said Vazquez’s CEILING could reach the ace level.

Realistically, yes, he’s a 2 or 3 on this team. Javy doesn’t necessarily have to overtake CC on the depth chart to be an ace. Teams have 2 aces. Javy could easily have an ace type year, especially with his numbers last year and the fact that he will be looking for a contract next winter.

by Frankie Camp on Jan 3, 2010 12:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs