Looking ahead to a stacked rotation
by 3460kuri on Dec 22, 2009 11:47 AM EST
in New York Yankees Analysis
Email
PrintAfter the Winter Meetings, somebody put it best when they said "with Twitter, now more people have the opportunity to be wrong, sooner" about rumored baseball trades and signings. That person was right.
I went to bed last night without the slightest clue who the newest Yankee might be, and Javier Vazquez was the last person I expected. And while it seems that some minor details are left to be worked out (conflicting reports have Arodys Vizcaino included or not included in the deal), I want to take a look at what we might be able to expect from Vazquez in 2010 and where he fits in the starting rotation.
It's important to remember that back in 2004, Vazquez was hyped far more than he should have been, and we should avoid repeating that mistake. Don't expect a repeat of his 2009 season - 9.8 K/9, 143 ERA+ - especially not pitching in the AL East, but pitching in Chicago from 2006-2008, in an offense-friendly ballpark and in front of a defense that ranked in the bottom half of AL twice, Vazquez posted an ERA+ of 106, never pitching fewer than 202 2/3 innings in a season or striking out fewer than 184 batters. I can see Vazquez easily putting up an Andy Pettitte-type season in 2010 - 200 innings, an ERA around 4.00 - albeit with more strikeouts and fewer walks.
A quartet of C.C. Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte, and now Vazquez gives the Yankees four above-average starting pitchers who are all capable of going deep into games and making opposing hitters swing and miss, which is critical against some of the tougher AL lineups they'll face. Furthermore, even allowing for a minor injury or occasional missed start, this group could easily combine for 800 innings in 2010, which further reduces the likelihood of guys like Sergio Mitre or Chad Guadin having to toe the rubber.
One thing this trade is not likely to do is quell the debate over how Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain should be used. My gut tells me that Chamberlain will start 2010 in the bullpen with Hughes going to the rotation, but with both Vazquez and Pettitte potentially gone next offseason, questions may linger. In hindsight, it seems like Joba's 2007 move to the bullpen may turn out to be the worst thing that happened to his career. Expectations will always be unrealistic as a result of that, and some people will forever see him as the successor to Mariano Rivera, as if you can groom somebody to take over for the greatest relief pitcher who ever played the game. But that's another conversation.
Overall, the acquisition of Vazquez (with or without Arodys Vizcaino) improves the Yankees for 2010, keeps them on pace with the Red Sox, and comes at a relatively low cost. I like it. If everything breaks right, they could wind up getting nearly 1,000 above-average innings from their rotation next year, which would put them in excellent position to repeat as World Series champions.
111 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
So I was checking out Over the Monster
for their reaction to this trade. One of their bloggers (brogshan) posted this as his comparison of the two rotations:
Lester > Sabathia or at worst as wash
Beckett > Burnett
Lackey > or = Vasquez (don’t know much about Vasquez to make firm decision)
Dice-K = Pettitte
Buchholz > Hughes
Wake < Joba
Lester > Sabathia or at worst as wash!!!! Is this guy nuts?
Interesting how they perceive their pitching vs. ours.
I am a fan of the trade and I think that Vasquez will do his part as a 3/4 starter; eat up innings, record a bunch of K’s, and help this team over 162 to push for another pennant and title.
Yeah, here's the actual 3 year weighted WAR's..
Boston:
Lester (over just past 2 years): 5.7 WAR
Beckett: 5.5 WAR
Lackey: 3.7 WAR
Dice-K: 2.3 WAR
Wakefield: 2.1 WAR
Buchholz (over past 2 years): 1.0 WAR
Yankees:
Sabathia: 6.8 WAR
Vazquez: 5.6 WAR
Pettitte: 4.0 WAR
Burnett: 3.8 WAR
Chamberlain: 2.0 WAR
Hughes: 1.4 WAR
We’ve got the advantage here
In reality
In 2009, Lester was worth 6.2 WAR; CC 6. So it was in fact a wash, and I think it is moving forward (Lester is that good).
Beckett is a 5 WAR pitcher, pitching for a contract. Vasquez is a 5 WAR pitcher, pitching for a contract. Wash.
Lackey is an injury risk with an $85 million contract who has averaged almost 4 WAR the last three years. AJ Burnett is an injury risk with an $82 million contract who has averaged almost 4 WAR the last three years. Wash.
Even with a likely rebound this year, Dice-K projects to about a 2.5 WAR pitcher. Expecting some regression, Andy projects to a 2.5-3.0 WAR pitcher.
I think Joba/Bucholz is also probably a wash.
So I give the edge to the Yankees, but ONLY because I believe in Andy Pettitte more than I believe in Dice-K.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
The point we are missing:
Sure the Sox may in fact have an equal or possibly superior rotation. But we don’t pride ourselves on pitching and they do. Our offense should be incredibly superior to theirs, even if they go sign Holliday our 3-4 of Tex-ARod is better than Holliday-Youk or however they would do it.
Basically, we still have the better team as it stands now, though there are a lot of moves still to be made.
great point
the gap between the offenses, especially sans Bay, is jaw-dropping.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Dec 22, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Meh
This is from the crew that thinks 2 Red Sox World Series wins from 2000-2009 > 2 Yankees World Series wins from 2000-2009. Anyone that thinks Lester is better than Sabathia is friggin high.
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Dec 22, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Love your correction to the photo credit!
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Who says they can't?
I’d love to see Duchscherer still as the 5th starter, leaving Hughes and Joba in the pen. Likely not happening though.
Vazquez > Sheets and Bedard though, he’s a horse. Sheets and Bedard have big upside but big downsides too. Vazquez is what he is, 15-11, 200IP, 200K. Give or take.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 22, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
no question Javy's
more dependable, but is it worth giving up one ML starter and two prospects when a higher risk, higher reward pitcher could be acquired for nothing but money?
what i believe will make or break this trade is Vizcaino.
Prospects in themselves are high risk
So yes, I think having a innings-eating #3 starter is worth more than 2 guys who haven’t done poop yet.
I don’t think how Vizcaino turns out will have any real impact on the value of this trade from our side. The Braves have to worry about that.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 22, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I have a hard time calling Mike Dunn a prospect considering his walk rates.
Melky was a solid league average centerfielder. They don’t exactly grow on trees, but Javy is vastly more valuable.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
just a reminder
Remember what happened to the Red Sox last year with their high risk-high reward signings that cost them nothing but money… and well the season.
by IDCWhoYouLike on Dec 23, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
exactly.
Vazquez is much less of a risk then these guys.
He’s much less of a risk then Lackey. He’s similar caliber, and only signed for one more year.
He does good…re-sign him. Bad..let him go and in another direction.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely.
Vazquez is as good a lock for 200IP as you can find in the majors. Excepting 2004 when he “only” pitched 194, he’s done it 10 years running.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Have to remember javy
is pitching in a better div and league so hoping for the same or better numbers is asking more then you think.Hope he can pull it off since he is pitching for a contract
by cashman bashman on Dec 22, 2009 12:25 PM EST reply actions
Holy Crap
CC, AJ, and Javier in the same rotation? Bring on the strikeouts! I’m looking forward to a season full of enemy batters looking very stupid
by RicketyCricket on Dec 22, 2009 12:26 PM EST reply actions
Awesome handle by the way...
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Melky ...
Adding Javy and his innings eating mentality is a decent move. He’ll be a 4 which will take some pressure off him. I suspect Javy part deux will receive better reviews than Javy part one, but I hate to see Melky go because I do think he’s on the cusp of having a breakout season. Of course I thought that last season too. Not that his 2009 campaign was bad—it was actually solid, but I expect him to do more. Apparently so did the Yankees brass.
I am concerned how this will affect Robby Cano, and am hoping it won’t affect his play. Perhaps with Melky gone, it will be less distraction for Cano and he’ll ramp it up a notch or two more.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
does anyone not care that
we gave up melky in this deal? I always loved melky.. how short the memories of yankee fans lasts he was the hero more often than not last year. Best of luck to him on the Braves. I don’t like this deal.
Can't let emotion get in the way of business
GM’s can’t get wrapped up in each players popularity rating. Vazquez is a much more important piece to the 2010 yanks than Melky. I like Melky too, but no more or less than I like any yankee really. It’s kinda silly to grow that kind of attachment to people that aren’t family and friends.
They’re a [arguably I guess] better team today, that’s what matters to me.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 22, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
They're CLEARLY a better team today
The other point about Melky is that he’s about to get far more expensive through the arbitration process. He’s a great player at the league minimum, and even for a million and change, but he’s exactly the kind of player who might be non-tendered next offseason or the one after.
Love the Melkman
But with Granderson-Gardner-Melky we had too many CFers. Now the curious thing is now that Melky is gone, there goes him in LF. With Damon pretty much gone, do you think the Yankees are looking to add a LFer?
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Dec 22, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Why is Damon pretty much gone exactly?
If anything, this makes it more likely for him to return. The LF the Yankees would be looking to add would probably be Johnny Damon.
Well that is true
Only if Damon relents on his 13 mil a year demand
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Dec 22, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
There was a report
that Damon was willing to go back to the Yanks at the last minute and take a 2 year, 20 million dollar deal. But the Yankees rejected it because they had already signed Johnson. I’d be willing to take him back for 2 years, 20 million. Thats fair.
Yeah
SBN has its own BR account and subscription?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Interesting
that the Yankees have four of the top 20 innings producers on that list (CC -1, Javy – 5, Pettitte – 13, and Burnett – 19). Maybe we won’t need much long relief this year!
Remember Jared Wright?
He had a great year in Atlanta before the Yanks got him, and we all know how that turned out. This was an awful trade, not for giving up Melky but because Vasquez STINKS!!!!!! All the Yankees need is Juan Rivera and Randy Choate and all the pieces in the that 2004 trade are back with team.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 22, 2009 2:06 PM EST reply actions
are you on drugs? how does guy with a sub 3 era stink?
the guy had his worst year with the yankees, but aside form inflated ERA you’ll see the number says he’s a very good pitcher who’s numbers doesn’t justify his ability. Do you really think mitre/gaudin or even joba/hughes is better than this guy? even in his 04 year he was great in the first half before collapsing.
4.19 lifetime ERA, with 2/3 of that coming in the NL
He’ll be 34 next July.
He’s been traded 5 times in 6 years.
He’ll be a free agent after 2010.
Atlanta doesn’t trade good pitchers
Worst trade ever.
really? fangraphs' FIP says he's been preforming better than his era says
he;s a consistent 200 innings guy. Yeah there’s the NL thing, but we’re not excepting another CC from this trade. Also he’s had very good years and very bad years..its gamble on the yanks part but i’m willing to take it. He’s our number 3/4 guy and at worst this year he’s prolly will put up better numbers than Hughes/Joba. Age really doesn;t matter with a 1 year deal seeing we just signed a 36 year old lefty. If he is good and if we offer him arbitration and he rejects it we get 2 draft picks from it, so we can amke up what we lost in terms of prospects. Being traded a lot doesn’t really much either..ask david cone.
ah...
CPH..
the same Dude that declared CC a postseason failure after one run allowed in the first playoff game……
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Cocaine's a hell of a drug...
this is a different team.
Melky..for all what he was..was a 4th OF.
We got a 4th starter..capable of being an ace and dominating anyone.
THe Yanks won this trade….they got a pitcher who can go out there and shut anyone down…not as good as Lackey..but pretty close.
One season..one game.
There’s a lot to like about this trade.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Amen brother!
You just summed up this trade in about 20 words. No need to say it any other way.
I'll add that he's a potential #2 guy.
More of rotation rock then AJ Burnett.
More of a sure thing then Andy Pettite even.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Death, taxes, and prospect over-hyping and fellating on OTM
This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons.
exactly..
Andy repeating 2009…not a sure thing.
Andy repeating 2008..IS a possiblity.
But what is a sure thing…is he is more of a solid pitcher then AJ.
AJ’s spectacular at times..horrible at others.
Javy will keep you in the game, eat innings and save the bullpen.
CC’s a 7-9 IP pitcher.
AJ’s a 6-7 (every now and then 8-9) pitcher.
Javy’s a 7IP..sometimes 8-9 IP pitcher.
He’s an innings eater.
They’re adding an innings eater to last year’s rotation.
That’s a damn good addition.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Agree....
I think he’s a lot more consistant with andy….
Vasquez has a .256 BAA from 07 to 09’…..4.19 career era but it was uinder 4.00 last year….
I’d place him right behind cc….
-Announcemen Forwarded To The Following: Boston Blowsox, New York Pets, Philadelphia Phonies, And Any Other Team Who Ain't The With The Empire.................
Getcha' Fuccin Rings Up........
by NYYWinsRings27 on Dec 22, 2009 4:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think you may even see AJ 4...
and Javy 2.
This guy is no joke peoples.
The Yankees didn’t get some run of the mill starter.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
true.
Melky’s still young. Vizcaino had as high a ceiling as any.
Yet..the fact that Melk’s been around long enough..he’s merely a 4th OFer..and bottom of the lineup hitter if he has to be an everyday guy.
He may be better then that in the NL.
The Yanks have a stocked enough farm system where they can get away with a trade like this tho.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
Javier Vasquez
A number 1 or 2 starter he ain’t, but he will be one of the best 3 or 4 spot pitcher’s in AL.
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Dec 22, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Too many "If's" in these posts
This was a bad trade in many ways. Melky is a solid OF with much more potential. Our OF is now probably one of the worst in the majors; Gardner, granderson, and Swisher. How does that sound? Be honest, it sucks. And payroll? Fuggetaboutit…
Oh,
and the confidence of Hughes and Joba??? The Yankees should trade BOTH of them while they can get something for them because they are being shown that the Yankees have absolutely no confidence in them.
okay now you're just getting out there...
no confidence? no..they are developing…getting a 4th guy is for a year, hughes and joba can develop in the 5th spot or at worst be the bridge to mo. had Joba and hughes suck it up as a starter this year (w/o getting naother arm) you’d prolly be pissed that the yanks didn;t get a 4th starter
No...
I’d like to see Hughes as the fourth/fifth and Gaudin get a shot. We went with CC, Burnett, Pettitte and Hughes and Mitre, of all people, and things worked out pretty well. To sacrifice Melky, in my opinion, was not a good move. And yes, this OF, as it stands, is WEAK. Who’s worse?
AND...
Like I said, since they are not in their plans, they should try to get something for them while their value is extremely high…
How
Are they not in their plans? Clearly they are going to battle for the 5th spot, while the other probably gets used in the pen.
by DarthRichter on Dec 22, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
they are in their plans..they wweren;t you'd be seeing halladay in a yanks uniform
Melky wasn’t since right now we’re seeing quality outfielders still available. not to mention there’s talk of montero in the outfield for the future AND the fact lasy year was melky;s best year and it wasn’t outstanding. we lost melky wich was essentially a9 hole hitter with 15 hrs and avg rbi numbers…if this opens up for a resigning of damon or more then we just by far have a better outfield we did last year.
Probably
But Montero is still a year or two away, no? A nine hole hitter with 15 homers and 68 RBI ain’t too shabby though. I think Derosa may be on their minds.
Montero
is starting at Triple A so depending on the season.
by justinxyankeesfan on Dec 22, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
David...
Do you honestly thing the OF was that much better with Melky in there over Gardner?
Melky’s slightly better cuz he hits a few more HR (in April and May..)
Overall…..Gardner/Grandy/Swish….not all that much different then Melk/Grandy/Swish.
The fact they got a 4th starter..who’s the caliber of a 2nd starter..out of this deal, when there’s no one on the market remotely as good as Vazquez..is flat out nuts.
I can’t believe how many are getting their the balls all bent out of shape over Melky here.
…Melky’s not even the real prize in the deal..its Arodys Vizcaino.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
It's more
than just thinking Melky is better (far) than Gardner. Gardner is nothing but a punch and judy pinch runner with no success with runners on. But my real problem is with Vazquez. I remember him as a Yankee, as you probably do, too, and he was not good. His recent success means nothing since it came in the National League. I haven’t researched it, but I’d bet his AL numbers are much worse than his time in the NL…I want him to succeed as much as any other Yankees fan and hope he wins 17+ games, but my gut tells me “uh-oh”…
He was successful in the AL too...
Actually..he was in ATL for one year…but CWS for much of the last few. So..his success of recent times means a lot.
He had one year with the Yanks.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
we might resign damon or go for a big fish
and how does out OF suck? Gardner statistically speaking isone of the best defensive OF in the game…Granderson = 30+ hrs and swisher is 20-30 hrs…yeah we suck compared to other outfielders
I just want to be certain here, we traded Melky Cabrera right?
I don’t understand the Melky love To me, he will always be running around Fenway trying to find that inside the park home run ball.
- He does not hit for average
- He does not hit for power
- He does not get on base
- He does not steal bases
- He is not a gold glove of
I am just wondering what people are seeing that I am not. He is a fourth OFer.
Vizcaino may turn into something but he has only played short season A ball. You could fill several volumes of kids that dominated that level and never made it to the majors.
For that the Yankees got a guy who will throw 200 innings, strike a bunch of people out and fills a big need in the middle of the rotation. Not to mention the prospect of getting picks when Vazquez signs elsewhere.
If people were willing to have Melky be the every day LF then Gardber is perfectly good as the LF.
also as much as i hate to say it
we don’t have to walk melky swing at those curveballs in the dirt in the play offs.
thank you...
Melky is good. I like Melky. He’s a good dude.
He’s also..an average ballplayer. What the hell the Braves saw in him…I dunno.
Vazquez was their ace. Their #1. They have younger guys they wanna work into the rotation..but he was their rock.
We got an innings eater. A strikeout machine….and traded a 4th OF, a LH RP who throws hard and can’t find the plate..and one of the Yanks better prospects…but who is very young and who knows what he’ll be.
The Yankees got a rock in the rotation.
THIS GUY IS NOT A #2. NOR IS HE A #3. HE’S A #2.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
**Not a #4
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well I think I would still have Javier pitch in the 4th spot
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Dec 22, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
could be.
I wouldn’t mind AJ in the 4th spot…
tho Javy’s probably the #4.
Either way…1-4, that matches up with anyone.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
What you're missing
Melky was a likable character.
Vazquez burned the yankees a bit in an off year.
So trading away a fan favorite + trading for a guy that fans are predisposed to not like = this trade must suck.
Of course, once you strip the emotion away….the Yankees stole one of the best pitchers in the NL last year for a guy whose career OPS is .716.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 22, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
exactly.
I kinda feel the same way.
Yet..looking at what the Yanks actually did here.
..if a team trade’s a 4th OF, a AAA RP who can’t find the plate, and a high ceiling Single A starter..for a guy like Vazquez?
C’mon…this was a no brainer.
Even if it doesn’t work out..the Yanks didn’t give away much.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Remember
Up until the all star break in 2004, Vazuez was 10-5 with an 3.57 ERA. He then had an injured shoulder, which is why he then went 4-5 record and 6.92 . I don’t blame the Damon grand slam on him because, as the announcers where saying as he came in that night, you don’t bring in a starter on such short notice, you bring in a reliever. I blame Torre for the GS.
I'll miss you Melkman...
but honestly, this was a fantastic trade. Essentially we got a pretty good #3 pitcher for a a bag of magic beans.
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Dec 22, 2009 4:16 PM EST reply actions
Stacked
Hard to believe but the AL East is even more stacked than the past couple of years. The top three teams (Yankees, Red Sox and Rays) all have the ability to win 100+ games. In reality probably only one will win that many due to the fact that they play each other so many times. If those three teams were spread out in three different AL divisions, they’d all be heavy favorites and atleast two (Yankees, Red Sox) would win over 100 games with the Rays probably a 30% chance of doing so too.
vr, Xei
um
what have the rays done to improve?
by justinxyankeesfan on Dec 22, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
um, read em and weeeep...
Rays 2009 WAR
Hitters: 34.1
Pitchers: 16.9
Replacement: 48.0
Total: 99 WAR
-—————————————————
They didn’t need to improve! I have them with around a 1-1/2 WAR improvement over last years team. Most improvement will come from players moving into their prime or closer to it.
vr, Xei
Don't you have some 2010 simulations to run
Go make yourself useful
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Dec 22, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Which is about as useful as your simulations
But I still like you.
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Dec 22, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I see what you did there
that isn’t the correct order of his name!
This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons.
If the Rays and Red Sox played in other divisions I doubt they would spend as lavishly (or all they can, in the Rays case).
Like the Angels, a pretty good team would be a postseason lock, and once you’re in the playoff crap-shoot, anything can happen.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
IMO
Red Sox Starting Pitching gets the edge
I won’t argue with them on this. Seattle has the best 1-2 punch now, but Boston has the best 1-2-3 (unless Lackey folds, and with the difference between Anaheim’s park, and that bandbox, I wouldn’t count out) and we’ve got a few amazing gamers, and one of the best after that.
Our Bull Pen gets the slight edge (especially if Marte steps it up)
But then…
Our Lineup HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE EDGE over the Red sox. Especially if Lowell goes. Unless Jeremy Hermida suddenly becomes the reincarnation of Manny their lineup is just flat out boring, and not intimidating. And Not. That. Good. Ours remains a beast
agree.
they do have the overal edge..cuz Buchholz as the #5 is damn good, he can dominate on nights.
I think the Yanks lineup can out hit that tho.
The Yanks rotation is no slouch either.
We’ll see if Joba or Hughes makes the jump to the next level like Buchholz did in his 2nd year going in as a starter in the bigs.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
2010 rotation
Uhhh… what’s up with Chien-Ming Wang? I might have lost a step in the news…
there's a chance
he comes back, but for little money and a minor league deal. he’ll get offered something better elsewhere though.
i HATE this...
What’s next… Tex for the right to talk to Kevin Brown? You giddy-ups seem to forget that Melky has been a good Yankee AND Mr. Clutch AND keeps Robbie (best bud) Cano on a happy keel. PLUS — lets not forget the reality that Javy has N-E-V-E-R done anything (except melt) in the “big moment.”
What short memories! I seriously doubt I was the only one cursing the TV back in ‘04 saying to our “new” pitcher that "if I ever see you pitch in a f&*^kin Yankee uniform again I’ll personally drive down to the Stadium and strangle you."
AND NOW WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE THIS CLOWN BACK? Don’t take my word for it — ask Ozzie Guillen. He knows exactly what a Javier Vasquez is — that’s why he ran him out of town too.
WTF Cash? Matsui – gone. Damon – going. Melky – gone Stop with the 1998 Florida Marlins imitation already!
THIS is bad joke. I’m waiting for my friend the Red Sox fan to call me and say “I was just kidding. It didn’r really happen.”
In his first stint
He was supposed to be a top of the rotation, 18-20 game winner who dominates like CC. That’s not what he is, so of course everyone hates him when he didn’t perform. I’m a NY Rangers fan, you think I don’t know what that’s like?
He’s a 2nd-4th starter who will win 14-16, give you 200 innings and 200 K’s.
And they gave up Melky Cabrera, who last I looked is not exactly Tex’s offensive twin brother. He’s a bottom of the order, little bit of punch hitter, who plays decent defense. Or, he’s the equiv. of about 25 others guys in the majors.
This isn’t the Marlins. Matsui – Damon – Melky was replaced by Johnson- TBD- (maybe Damon) – Granderson. In addition to a decidedly younger and basically lateral move offensively at OF/DH….they added a 4th starter as good as most teams 2nd.
The Cano-Melky thing is the only thing that should worry people, and Cano may just go out and hit a pissed off .390 this year, nobody knows the answer to that.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 23, 2009 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
There's thinking - and then there's...
wishful thinking.
Thinking is that history tends to repeat. Wishful thinking is that “this time it’ll be different — I promise!” (Ask my ex about this concept. Apparently I made her an expert on the topic.)
Melky just came off a good season and had rightfully gained his productive foothold in the team scheme of a Championship team — for alot of the right reasons. This kid was very well liked and won some ballgames while he was at it. (Not to mention “the arm” – which we sorely needed in the OF mix)
Vasquez played in the NL East and had good “stats” — but when he was given the chance to be a Yankee = FAIL (and “B-I-G T-I-M-E” I might add). And in the AL Central his manager publicly flat-out challenged him to pitch big in big games — AND HE FAILED AGAIN (andagainandagain)
This is one of those Sabremetric demons dancing on Cash’s shoulder. This guy is NOT a Yankee. Melky was a Yankee. Geez, why not save a locker for Ted Lilly and throw another “How’d we ever live without you” party!
I get it
You’re a big Melky fan and a big Vazquez hater. I get it.
The whole concept of “he’s not a yankee” is such theoretical garbage though. How many yankee fans have been crying “A-Rod’s not a yankee, he sucks in the postseason, blah blah blah” for years? How many of them changed their tune really quickly this year?
And Vazquez pitched in exactly one postseason game with the white sox, and in fact is the only game he started in the postseason (he came in for relief of Brown both times in 04). How he manage to fail again and again and again is intriguing. And as for that….have you seen CC’s postseason stats prior to 2009? Alrighty…..
Melky’s a 4th OF with a little bit of upside. He’s not a .300/35/100 guy. He had the 27th highest OPS among AL OF’s last year.
And incidentally…if the yanks could trade a couple of unknowns and a 4th OF for Ted Lilly to be the 5th starter and chew up another 170 IP…they should look into it.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 23, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
I never really understand
Yeah Vazquez gave up a Grand Slam to Johnny Damon, everyone knows this! To be fair he should’ve never had to come in,.he’s a starter, and Kevin Brown should’ve done his friggin job! That being said I love Melky, but getting rid of him doesn’t hurt the team, adding Vazquez does nothing but strengthen the rotation. Ur acting like Melky was World Series MVP. Vazquez was a All Star as a Yank, apparantly people remember what they want.
by DarthRichter on Dec 23, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Lets simplify
I’m a big “Perform” fan and a big “Fail” hater. I’ll let you put the names next to where they belong.
As for Chicago and Vasquez’ “one playoff game” — Ozzie’s point was made during the stretch drive not the playoffs themselves. V’s failures there is what accounts for the againandagain. (Hopefully we’ll not be given yet another example in 2010 realtime to prove this point.)
As for A-Rod. I’ll let you wait till year 5 (2014) for Javy to have his “finally a Yankee” year. You DO have a short memory. The reason A-Rod had the “not a Yankee” label is exactly for what he didn’t do for us until this year.
So I get it too. You love the numbers. I’ll take what I’ve seen with my own eyes and a guy that’s proven to fit on a Championship field and in a Championship club house over stats everytime. I hope I’m wrong. (Boy do I hope I’m wrong.) But… I don’t think so.
Okkkkk
Um When did Melky do anything in the playoffs to make him a Yankee? I mean that’s the criteria ur using on A-Rod right? A Rod had walk off in the regular season, like Melky. I get the hate of V I do, but it was one season, even Jetes and Mo, had bad seasons, and moments. I mean did u hate Mo after the 2001 WS? Give the guy a chance is all I’m saying.
by DarthRichter on Dec 23, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
He's getting ANOTHER chance
He’s already had his chance. That’s my point. And of course I didn’t hate Mo after the ’01 WS — I just sent him to his room for awhile and had him throw a hundred nerfs to the 2b I set up in his closet.
Bottom line — what’s done is done. Good luck to Melk — and thanks. Good luck to Javy, of course, too, for all our sake. Just no thanks. Not yet anyway.
Came up thru the system
He has always been a Yankee. Guys who come thru trade/free agency “Need to earn” it.
I don't know if I 'love' the numbers
But I do tend to defer to the numbers for the simple reason that they come without bias and prejudice. Arguing subjective feelings about players is generally a fruitless exercise because people have their opinions and more often than not will not budge from them.
And yes, I remember all the A-Rod fail over the years. I understand the rep. He had 5 years of fail before succeeding (which is non statistical…he had ok numbers during the postseason, but nothing clutch, a fact i also understand)
Vazquez has had 3 postseason games total. To give him any rep over that small a sample size is short-sighted. And regular season games are still just regular season games, no matter how much Ozzie Guillen wants to call them something else.
But you’re right…bottom line is what’s done is done. No use crying over traded melky.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 23, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
A 'Pissed off' Cano?
Yeah — I want that under my tree. Or, better, I want Santa to hand it to me personally — because at least then I’ll know both of them exist. I love Robbie’s “coast and glide” routine — makes for big smiles, sometimes jaw-droppingly beautiful baseball and an “I’m not going to change a thing” attitude that his blessed talent allows — until he’s got to man-up in a screw-tight sitch against Pap in the 9th. Then I hate it. Because…
Nuthin’. Nada. Not a dig in, or a choke-up or a shortened swing or even a hint that one iota of a “this is my strike zone not yours a-hole” molecule exists in his body. Nope. Just another free swing followed by an “Eeez great to be jung and a jankee” trot back to the dugout as we all are left cursing the outcome.
Oh yeah… you’ve nailed exactly what I want for X-mas. A pissed off Cano!
you're right
that he’s sucked in the playoffs: 10.34 ERA, 2.17 WHIP, but it’s only 3 games. cut him some slack. Sabathia and Arod were considered chokers before this past October. amazing how one great postseason can erase all those silly sentiments. playoff stats are way too often based on tiny sample sizes.
You are also right my man
It’s the holidays and WE are World Champs and why am I stressing about a possible Javy or Robbie meltdown late in the 2010 season…??
GREAT SEASON!!!! Looooved me our 27th and lookin forward to #28.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
- Robinson Cano and Denzel Washington face off in Jay Leno’s Yankees trivia contest
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
