Javy el Jankee (so long, Melky)
by jscape2000 on Dec 22, 2009 10:08 AM EST
in Analysis
167 comments
Interwebs are full of rumors of a Yankee reunion with Javier Vazquez.
Word is Vazquez and (lousy) reliever Boone Logan for Melky, minor league lefty Mike Dunn, and maybe A-baller Arodys Vizcaino. Vizcaino and Melky would hurt, but I always like Javy. He got run out of town for having a lousy second half and being part of the Kevin Brown-Johnny Damon Game 7 in the Year We Shall Not Name.
He's had a WHIP of 1.20 over the last 5 seasons and averaged 213 IP. You wanted an ace, Brian Cashman delivered an ace for spare parts and projections.
I don't know the budget situation, but this could reopen the door for Johnny Damon.
Update (10:15):
Says Sam Borden:
For the bargain price of Melky, Mike Dunn and (apparently) the other A-Rod, Arodys Vizcaino, Cashman has:
1. Given the Yankees rotation incredible depth.
2. Likely pushed the Yankees toward a resolution on the Joba to the pen question.
3. Retained financial flexibility for next offseason and beyond (Vazquez’s contract is up after 2010).
4. Relieved a glut of extra outfielders.
Strengthening the bullpen by adding to the rotation is an important part of this move. The more I think about it, the more I like it.
Goodbye, Melky. League average is so often under-appreciated.
Update (11:16):
Says Joel Sherman:
The Yankees project Vazquez as a Type-A free agent next winter, so they can offer arbitration and - if it's rejected - get 2 high picks to begin replenishing the system.
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Definitely reopens the door
for Damon. Sign Johnny and put a ribbon on the off-season. We can all spend the rest of the hot stove season debating whether Hughes or Chamberlain should be the # 5.
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque
by LateInningRelief on Dec 22, 2009 10:11 AM EST reply actions
Better sign someone
Gardner, Granderson, and Swisher = Worst OF in Majors…Terrible trade in my mind…Pretty much forces NY to get one of the biggie OF’s. So much for saving on payroll, huh?
Why do you say
Gardner Granderson and Swisher being the worst OF in the Majors?
It’s certainly no liability on defense, and the offense, (minus Gardner|) would be likely somewhat above average. Sure, it lacks some power, but with the amount of power we can generate from our infield, I fail to see what’s so poor about this outfield.
by Vancouverguy on Dec 23, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Lacks power?
Damon – Gardner/Cabrera – Swisher hit 69 HR last year.
Granderson – Swisher alone hit 59.
As long as the LF has 11 HR power – it’s actually an improvement in power.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 23, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough,
Dunno if Gardner could hit 11HR in a season, but that further proves my point. How was is it we have the worst OF in the majors?
by Vancouverguy on Dec 23, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
I saw yours as soon as I hit publish. Since you beat me by 4 minutes: h/t to you.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I think without a doubt, Damon is coming back. 2 years 18 million.
But it is also possible the Yankees say EFF it and go after Holliday(hope not) or Bay(hope not). Or do they possibly roll the dice and say lets see what Brett Gardner can do(I really hope not). Or maybe they go after Randy Winn? or someone of lesser value until next years run at Crawford.
by BigDanz2000 on Dec 22, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
LF is next
Next post jscape is evaluating the options in LF.
Sure Damon is one if he accepts a one year deal (not). Can you say Abreu?
What would Nady cost?
Winnand other bandaids?
I hate to say it,
but I think the real victory here is moving Melky for a genuine piece. I liked the guy, but he was always going to be the weak link in the lineup. He’ll thrive, I think, without having to always feel like a 4th OF who was begrudgingly made into a starter — which is how the Yankees have always treated him.
Javy could pitch well enough to be the # 2, but he doesn’t need to. Takes pressure off the young guns.
Good move all around.
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque
by LateInningRelief on Dec 22, 2009 10:16 AM EST reply actions
Javy
is set to make $11.5M this year… so I don’t see, from a budget, perspective how this opens the door to add more salary… position-wise, yeah, Melky goes, Johnny comes back.. but we’ll see.
As far as Vasquez goes, the only thing I can say is that at least he won’t have to be the ace this time. Javier Vasquez as a #3 pitcher ain’t too shabby, IMO.
I'm heartbroken to see Melky go...
I thought Melky had a lot of potential and he is a well rounded and young player who is still developing. When comparing his numbers to Bernie’s at the same age, they are nearly identical. I hope the Yanks haven’t given up on a very good player for a very long time.
by theconquistadore on Dec 22, 2009 10:17 AM EST reply actions
He just delivered Vazquez
why not go out on top
by Monotonousblob on Dec 22, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
CLUTCH MELKY
i like the trade but im upset to see melky go… he won alot of games for us with his clutch bat during the season… his defense is pretty good and has a ok arm… i dont want the yankees to sign damon… screw him and let him walk so we can go after crawford next yr…
Thanks Melky
We loved you as a yankee thanks for all you did and all your clutch.
Welcome to javy……….I really really really like this move to add depth to both the bullpen and obviously the rotation.
Cashman will bring Damon back for sure, this is the move he was looking for before he could commit to Johnny.
PS Joba is forever in the pen now…………..
by 4thabronxbombers on Dec 22, 2009 10:29 AM EST reply actions
C'mon
One playoff game does not a player make. This is a great move for the Yanks. They got a real addition for the price of a 4th OF.
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque
by LateInningRelief on Dec 22, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
His ERA as a Yankees was 4.91, and Ozzie Guillen routinely called out his testicular fortitude late in the season.
maybe that wasn't a good idea to call the guy out?
Maybe just letting him pitch was a good idea?
Vazquez is a rock.
200K’s. 200IP.
With the Yankee lineup..and his consistency…I think you can pencil him in for 17 wins..maybe more.
If AJ Burnett can be what he is…Javy Vazquez sure as hell can do a whole lot better.
Yea..the Yankees just traded Melky Cabrera..their #2-5 (depends on where you find Vizcaino) prospect, who’s about 5 years away anyway…..
…FOR A NUMBER TWO FKING STARTER!!!!!
One season with the Yankees.
Don’t go by one season….
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
hahahahah
go take a look at over the monster
i think most of them thought they had us beat with Lackey
lol. reading that "Yanksees one up Red Sox" post made me love this trade.
" You F@#$ed Up, You Trusted Us!"
Well, much better than getting Derek Lowe
And Vasquez only costs about $1.5 million more.
Vasquez is going to be 33. He’s averaged 216 IP, 200 K (!) and 13 W this decade, mostly for mediocre teams. And we’re relying on him to be our 3rd starter. He’s a great addition, and it’s really too bad he didn’t stick around after 2004.
The Yankee payroll now stands at about $195, without a resolution to all the arbitration cases (Joba, Phil, etc.). Can you believe we give $150 to 8 players? That’s the highest payroll in baseball, right there! The point is, I think we’re done spending for the year. Granderson, Swisher, and Gardner/Hoffmann are your outfield.
At the same time, boo to Feinsand for getting our hopes up about Josh Johnson.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions
Also, note that we haven't made a single free agent signing
Our two big acquisitions both came through trades taking advantage of financially strapped teams.
That is a VERY interesting strategy, and I think it shows that Cashman is thinking about both the short game (winning next year) and the long game (signing a big FA for 2011 while still keeping payroll down).
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, i got excited about josh johson.
but i’ll happily take vazquez.
" You F@#$ed Up, You Trusted Us!"
Oops...forgot Nick Johnson
But even that was REALLY reasonable.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
They are moaning and complaining like I have never seen at Over the Monster
They are cant believe it. I love sticking it to the Bosux. It is a real joy. And that headline oh man its just making this day and this trade better and better.
I love it cash, i revel in it….
by 4thabronxbombers on Dec 22, 2009 10:41 AM EST reply actions
I'm not sure where the moaning and complaining is at OTM....
Most of the talk is about why hell would the Braves would make this move when they appeared to try compete this year. (Trading your ace does not help you compete). Also the question of if the Yanks will pick up a new LF….
My opinion
Love the trade. Not sure I like giving up Dunn after losing Coke to the Tigers and Kroenke to the Diamondbacks. Now what? Just Marte? Not sure I like that. This probably puts Joba in the pen (or Hughes) and means the yankees will certainly consider bringing back Damon. I’m going to miss Melky a ton. How does this rotation look?
1. CC
2. AJ
3. Vazquez
4. Pettitte
5. Hughes
Can you say equal to the Red Sox?
Logan is a LHP
and theoretically balances the BP.
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque
by LateInningRelief on Dec 22, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Love this trade.
Yes…you Joba to the pen cretins probably get satiated…whatever.
The thing for those that hate this trade…Javy was supposed to be the ace, or #2 for the Yanks way back in the year that shall not be mentioned.
Now? 3-4th guy. Not the ace. Yet….he’s an ace, pretty much. Strikeout machine. Innings eater.
Very a nice.
And guess what? Anyone going to the “Bay” for their “Holliday”. They aren’t signed yet cuz they’re waiting for the Yanks.
They have no LF now. Oh…HELL yeah they’re getting one of them.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
oh bradshaw you know cash wont spend the money on bay or holliday give it up
but yes this makes us real ood i think better then last year which is scary if your not a yankee
by 4thabronxbombers on Dec 22, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
You really think I think Cash won't spend the cash?
The hell not?
Holliday’s one of the best LF’s in the game.
Why not?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
If we get one of them
I will….bake you cookies. Sorry, best I can do as a girl.
by WhatwouldJeterdo on Dec 22, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Residual effects of no more Melky
I don’t mind the trade – Vazquez is a quality pitcher who misses bats which is the MO of nearly all of the Yankee starters. I know a lot of us have bad memories of his last stint in pinstripes but he was relied upon too heavily back then. I think he’ll slot in nicely as a #3-4 guy.
What I’m more worried about is the effect of not having Melky around does to team chemistry – specifically the effect on Robbie Cano. I know these guys are all supposed to be “professionals” but Cano and Melky were so close that I wonder if his departure puts Robbie back into his 2008 funk…
Cano for Kemp!
THAT would solve our Robbie problem nicely…and give us a LF.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Hell no,
you don’t trade away one of the top 3 second basemen in the game unless its for Albert Pujols or Miguel Cairo (kidding). But I am very worried about Robbie too. Him and Melky are tight. Its kinda like separating Mo from Jorge – except these are kids who are about to be in the peaks of their careers who need a pal. I hate to see Melky go. Its like I watched him grow up..
for arguably the top CF you can. he is going to be a .300 30/30 guy. Kemp played to a value of 22.6 mil and a WAR of 5.0 last year. Cano 19.7 mil and a WAR of 4.4. Cano is an excellent player but Kemp is better, cheaper and two years younger.
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/check-the-position-centerfield
and a gaping hole at 2B....
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
If you think about it, Derek Jeter is probably the 2B of our future
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
no...
he’s not.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
I would rather see his production at 2B than RF
Jeter is going to play every day probably until he’s 40. Where to put him is the elephant in the room, because he’s no Omar Vizquel at SS and doesn’t have the power makeup to be a corner OF.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
why not?
Why is he not Omar?
Well..he’s not Omar, HOF defense Omar..but he can play SS for as long as he wants.
He’s in good shape. Seems to have finally discovered positioning…Jeet can play SS till he’s 40.
He won’t move from SS either. He’s obviously worked on it..so I think he stays there his whole career.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Since 2002, Jeter has had one year of above average defense
And it was last year. Could be a sign that all the criticism got to him and he finally worked on it. Could be an outlier. We’ll have to see what he’s able to do next year.
Some of Jeter’s success has allegedly come from having A-Rod at 3B, which allows him to “cheat” to his left. But A-Rod isn’t getting younger either, and though he is a peak athlete as he ages it will be more important to have someone with excellent range at SS. Jeter will still be a valuable player at 40…he’d just be much more valuable in a position where any holes in his D wouldn’t be as glaring.
In 5 years, my feeling is that it’s much more likely that Jeter is at 2B and Cano is in RF than seeing them in their current positions.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Motivates Robbie
Think this focus’ Robbie. If not, he could be out the door next. Nobody is sacred if you don’t perform. Even in our lives.
I wish we could continue to just show up and play for no reason. No umpires, no scorers. Just show up and have fun.
-- Alex Rodriguez
In terms of WAR, this move is a BIG win for the Yanks.
Javy Vasquez, 2006-2009: 5.3 WAR average.
Melky Cabrera, 2008-2009: 1.5 WAR average.
Even being charitable to Melky’s growth, we probably just added 3 wins in this deal.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 10:57 AM EST reply actions
hopefully it pisses him off....
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
hopefully it makes him
be able to drive in runs
by yankeechaser on Dec 23, 2009 7:04 AM EST up reply actions
WAR
You’re right, this trade certainly makes the Yankees better this year.
The real measure of a trade is usually surplus value over the length of the players contracts. Over the long run, this will probably net Atlanta more value, what with Arodys’ potential and three more years of Melky. However, for the Yankees, it’s seldom correct to measure trades just in surplus value over length of contracts because, one, they will almost always replace below average talents with FA signings, and two, additional marginal wins over current players are valued at a much higher level for teams of the NYY’s caliber. So even when you include future value, it’s likely the Yankees will still come out ahead of their pretrade position.
i swear
i was thinking of Javy Vazquez as the most likely candidate last night, but i don’t like to speculate out loud. the Braves have always liked Melky, and Vazquez is a dependable, above avg. innings eater.
i dont like giving up A-Viz though, a teenager that can reach 94 MPH.
Logan is terrible. 5.78 career ERA. 1.69 WHIP. he’s lefty, 24 and averages 92 MPH, that’s about his only redeeming qualities.
i do not believe this answers definitively what role Joba or Hughes will have. the Yanks already said Joba has no innings cap, so why they throw him back into the pen. Joba looks to be the 5th starter, with Hughes a reliever/spot starter.
Well
Trading back Javy after what happened last time around take some massive ballz
So who the hell is playing left field???
All the reporters are saying that this doesn’t mean Damon, Bay or Holliday are going the Yankees. I don’t get this?
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 22, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions
seriously
Garnder and Hoffmann could platoon CF (playing great defense) with Grandy in LF. am i the only one who doesn’t have a problem with this scenario?
Works for me
Though I don’t know enough about Hoffmann. Granderson could flip btw. CF and LF.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
I hope not...
I do like Gardy and Hoffman..I think they could be good….as fill in 4th OF.
Maybe they go with it as their LF platoon.
They are the Yankees. You can bet money that they spend money to shore it up with LESS of a questionmark.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I think Granderson in LF should be a possibility.
But I think the Yanks will look for a cheap hitter a la Eric Hinske to be a part time player when the Yanks are willing to trade defense for offense.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Grandy plays CF
Granderson was brought in to play enter.
Gardner and Hoffman platoon in LF.
Not optimal but I can live with it. If it is not working the trade deadline is in July and we go steal a LF from the Pirates or somebody who has an annual fire sale.
Yeah, I’m afraid that’s how it will work. But until I see Grand Central’s range compared to Gardner, I’m working under the assumption that Gardner is superior defensively.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
One thing I heard was the yankees might go after Derosa because his $6 million tag is more in their range as opposed to what the other three are asking for.
by PublicMenace on Dec 22, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
that's no definite.
Unless you see the future already…its only a possibility that Crawford is on the market.
Its possible he’s traded and re-upped by that team he was traded to.
Holliday, Bay, Damon…I can tell you for sure these guys are available.
What happens if Crawford is re-signed, and the Yankees don’t have any options to look at?
I guess Gardy/ Hoffman could be excellent out there…but do you get the point here?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
You could say the same thing about Santana/CC
Or John Lackey/Cliff Lee this year. You have to evaluate each player on their merits.
Looking at the stats, it looks to me like Holliday would be a better addition than Crawford. The real question is based on that, how unreasonable will Holliday’s contract demands be?
The Yankees have 15 salaries on the books right now for $195 million. The next 10 guys (the Jobas, Hughes’ and Haristons of the world) will be worth another $5-10. I just don’t see them adding another $16-18 million this year, even if Matt Holliday is an excellent LF.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I was going to say, "you have to evaluate each player on their merits..."
but you also have to think about the long-term health of the team.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Are they really going to count on a Rule 5 guy and a platoon guy?
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Dec 22, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
if they play
to their potential on defense, it’ll make up for their below avg. offense. even if they OPS just .700 combined, they’ll be positive contributors bc of their D. we know Gardner’s a great CFer, and all scouting reports on Hoffmann say he’s exceptional as well.
it also allows Grandy to have less wear and tear playing the easier LF.
that said, IF Grandy outplays Hoffder in ST in CF, then the job should be his. but i dont think that will happen.
Yeah, I think we need to get over the idea that Granderson
Is better than a +30 run Brett Gardner in CF. Put Hoffmann in there against LHP.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
GREAT TRADE!
Cashman has done it again! Great pitching staff with Hughes as the #5!!!!!
WOWO
Smart move with him projecting to be a type A player come the following year.
Love it!
I hate to see the Melkman go, he has done wonderful things for the Yankees, but at least he goes with a ring on his finger! Good luck Melky!
this doens't
necessarily mean Joba’s in the pen. between him ans Hughes, Joba’s the one w/o any ip limits, so it makes more sense for him to be the #5.
Boom.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but
dont you remember the games he started and he was slow, emotion-less, no fastball above 93, always up in the strike zone, etc.
The relief pitcher in Joba is just Nasty. 97 mph fastball, hard slider in the 90’s, and in 12-15 pitches he is done with the inning. Bring him back as that and have him succeed Mo in, well, 5 years??? Who knows with Mo he is as close to a bseball God as one can get. God I love Mo.!
He can try to be
‘revitalized’ as a RP after he fails as a starter.
He always was a starter..and deserves a full shot at the rotation.
I’d much rather have a good young starter then a good young reliever.
Plus…the ‘good young reliever’ thing, that’s for future "Joba’s trying to earn their pinstripes coming up from SWB.
Joba’s gotta earn his spot…but Joba SHOULD be in the rotation, with Hughes on stand bye.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
All the more reason for him to start.
An average starter is worth more than a monster in the pen, unless it’s Mo.
If average is all Joba will ever be, then you’re right; he won’t stand much of a chance to stick in the Yankee’s rotation. However, the solution to that is not to put him in the pen, it would be trade him. We would get more value by trading an average starter under team control than by relegating him to the bullpen. Unless of course, he really is the next Mo.
No
He’s probably the most dominant at his position, ever.
But a 220 IP, 250 K Ace is worth so much more than a closer it’s ridiculous.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
agree Travis.
Its gonna be Joba and Hughes..steel cage match in Spring training.
One gets the 5th spot..the other…AAA or the setup role.
…BTW..only way one gets the setup role, is like before…if the actual setup man stinks.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
The thing is, it makes more sense to start with Hughes in the rotation
since he’s on the innings limit…then you move him to the pen for the second half of the year.
The goal is to figure out if these guys are starters, but the problem is there’s only one spot to do that. These guys aren’t bumping any of the first 4.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Agree with that.
THe thing is…Joba’s on no limit at all.
Do they put him in the pen..then build him back when Hughes reaches the limit?
Or leave him in AAA to wait for the limit, or to throw into the pen if the pen stinks?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Vasquez
Thing is he signed for only one more year and if he leaves the Yankees end up with two compensatory draft picks. A stroke of brilliance from Cashman. I love Melky, but he is really a journeyman fourth outfielder. Cashman sold high, in fact incredibly high.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 22, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
no wway swrew that,
what the hell is cashman thinking,the yankees had lopez,he is a bum and always will be, sure hed did ok the last couple of years but as soon as he puts on the pinstripes he will stink it up again. what a joke get rid of melky for some worthless licks
How is an ERA under 3 a bum?
Get a clue Mr. Lewis.
Also, see the last comment about an A type player.
He's not our ace
or #2, like he was supposed to be.
He’s older, more polished…and our 4th starter.
He’s in a clubhouse now of difference people, CC will make him feel at home.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Bye Melky
Sad to see him go, but dealing him was for the best, this is the probably the highest value he’s going to command on the market. To me, he’ll always be the guy who had clutch moments and also looked like a japanese woman.
Good Move
I don’t like to see Melky go. He is a good egg. However, Mike Dunn has not shown me anything, so I won’t miss him at all. I am dubious about Vasquez because (a) his previous tour of duty in New York did not go well; and (b) his recent success was in the National League. Like others who have posted, I am not sure Vasquez has what it takes to succeed in New York. However, I am very glad that the Yankees obtained another starter. Vasquez is definitely durable and will pitch a lot of innings. The Yankees now have a potentially decent fourth starter, so even if they make the ill-advised choice to start Joba again, they at least won’t try to shuffle Hughes back into the rotation (barring injuries to other starters, of course).
Regarding left field, I don’t see Damon coming back even now. Cashman wants to keep the payroll under $200 million, and with Vasquez’s $11.5M salary, that’s not going to happen. However, I am fine with that. Gardner can be the starting left fielder.
by albanyattorney40 on Dec 22, 2009 11:30 AM EST reply actions
Assuming we sign damon here is the lineup for your 2010 yankees.
jeter
damon
tex
a rod
posada
johnson
granderson
swisher
cano
Damon isnt coming back
Boras can eat SH*T! I dont want Damon back because he cant play a position any more with his infant arm, and on top of that, it would be great to make a stand with the one they call BOR-ASS!
Don't be shocked when Johnny's the starting LF for the Yanks.....
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
different year..
different luck.
Lot of Robbie’s "struggles’ were merely bad luck.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah lets pray for a .340 + avg. from Cano this year!
He could so hit .450 if he wanted too. (slight exaggeration)
Can anyone else think of a rotation with 4 $11 million+ starters?
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions
they pay their playesr with Grit and hard work.
No money.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
I just wonder if this has ever happened before in MLB
Throwing out a rotation of four guys that either made or earned $10 million each (2009 $$$).
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Lester is only WORTH $11 million
He only made $1 million last year. And Dice-K $8.5, though you could argue that it’s a function of his contract structure.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
This was a deal the Yanks needed to make
Isnt it crazy that out of 9 guys from our lineup in the WS, 6 remain? We all loved Melky because he was that non Yankee superstar, guy that came from within who always seemed in the middle of good things last year. BTW Granderson is not being pushed to LF by the likes of Gardner/Hoffman, you just got the guy and you are already going to upset him by moving him to a new position? Not smart. Jeter as the Yanks 2B got a nice chuckle out of me too.
am I the only one with misgivings?
We had this guy before and it didn’t work out. I know things are different – it’s been a few years, and he was actually pretty good for the first half of the year in 2004, and he’s not going to need to be the ace – but are we sure this guy is going to survive in the AL East?
by long time listener on Dec 22, 2009 12:02 PM EST reply actions
The first half of 2004 shows he can handle NY and the AL East
He is older, so he is wiser and he was pitching with a bum shoulder at the end, which also tells you he is no Pavano, he has heart.
by YankeesJets on Dec 22, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I choose to believe that
I also want to believe that he’ll be pitching for a new contract.
by long time listener on Dec 22, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Hey whatever makes him sucessful work for me.
I am so glad it wasnt Lowe. I wouldnt mind if they brought DeRosa in to play left. I hope Melky does well in the NL.
by YankeesJets on Dec 22, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
derosa is asking for 6 mil,yanks have 6 mil to spend
see a connection?
Im undecided
the knock on Javy is he can’t handle pressure,run out by us,then Ozzie and the sox ran him out after publicly challengeing him to step up,he did not.Number 4 or not a playoff game is big,Pedro had to pitch 2 WS games who is to say we get to setup our staff this yr.Im going to be bipartisan until I see him pitch for the Yankees again.
by cashman bashman on Dec 22, 2009 12:15 PM EST reply actions
Lets not go by Ozzie
He also ran Swisher out of there, that worked out well for us. Javy should do really well as our 4th starter. He is better than most teams #2.
by YankeesJets on Dec 22, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
By my count Ozzie has how many more rings then you?
Like him or not he is in the sport you are not.
by cashman bashman on Dec 23, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
there pretty damn close but CCs a little better,atleast I think he is
by cashman bashman on Dec 22, 2009 12:16 PM EST reply actions
Lester is 4 years younger than Sabbathia
so we haven’t seen his best years yet.
Right now, I’d place both of them at about 6 WAR…aces, who with a good year could win a Cy Young. However, we haven’t seen Lester’s peak yet, so moving forward I give him a slight edge.
by PortlandYankee on Dec 22, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
On in-flight wifi right now
All I can say is wow. This should erase all doubts regarding the back end of the rotation.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 22, 2009 12:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Here's a wrinkle we haven't talked about
Nick Johnson was trade in 2003…for Javier Vasquez.
Where’s Crazy Yankee Chick- this kind of randomness is her area of expertise.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
My wife....
Is going to be sooooooo mad. She loves Melky!
Oh yeaaaaaa.....
Were monsters people…..Vasquez?….I’ll take that!….
3rd in to the Ro?….Pettite fourth….joba 5th hughes to the pen?….Take that!…
Matt Holliday?…Give me that!…..Boston whoooo?
-Announcemen Forwarded To The Following: Boston Blowsox, New York Pets, Philadelphia Phonies, And Any Other Team Who Ain't The With The Empire.................
Getcha' Fuccin Rings Up........
by NYYWinsRings27 on Dec 22, 2009 1:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I hate this trade...
I understand we need another arm in the rotation, but there aren’t that many arms to be had. I have a feeling this was deal for the sake of a deal. The Yanks just got slapped with a high luxury tax, and money is (relatively) tight as it is with the economy. Why not keep a young player like Melky, who makes under $5 mil? Whatever happened to grooming talent from our own farm system? My guess is Cashman doesn’t have the patience to try anymore, he figures you could solve everything with the wallet. There is a difference when you spend money and when you spend it wisely. Wise: CC, AJ, Damon, Cano, Swisher, Grandy. Unwise: Brown, Vasquez, and that list goes on…
…i’m just bent that they traded Melky. He’s a young kid, not yet a superstar, having a good season, helping the Yanks get to the WS again, to win again and he gets traded for yet another (below) avg. pitcher. He lost the job in the Spring, but then proved that CF was his when Gardner couldn’t hit a softball. He was there All year. You’re telling me Gardner is better than Melky? Defense, maybe. Speed, yes. But the more important thing, hitting? No. Getting on base? Look at his Avg. and OBS for 2008 and 2009 and compare the two, not to mention the HR’s and RBI’s and the fact that Melky is a SWITCH HITTER. I just hope that this doesn’t bite the Yanks in the a$$.
You're facts are a bit off
Melky and Gardner platooned in CF. Cabrera only became the full-time starter when Gardner broke his thumb. At that point both of them were hitting around .300, but once Melky took over full-time his BA plummeted. When Gardner was healthy Joe G didn’t want to platoon again because he didn’t want to mess with the lineup so late in the season.
Basically, Gardner showed he can hit well. What is more, his speed meant that every ground ball was a potential hit. Yes, I will miss Melky but by no means is a CF with average range and above average arm who bats .275 with 15 HR more valuable than a 200+ inning, 200+ strikeout, sub-3.00 ERA pitcher.
Not to mention
Vazquez is not a “(below) average pitcher.”
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 23, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
And just to back that up
Just two starting pitchers averaged at least 200 strikeouts a season in the ’00s. Who were they?
A: Randy Johnson and Javier Vazquez.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Dec 23, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
I dont think melky was ever gonna be a superstar....
I do think he will mature as a hitter….and get more sound on defense….but right now I think he was more expendable then a lot of names I’ve heard floating around ……
Will mist em though….
-Announcemen Forwarded To The Following: Boston Blowsox, New York Pets, Philadelphia Phonies, And Any Other Team Who Ain't The With The Empire.................
Getcha' Fuccin Rings Up........
by NYYWinsRings27 on Dec 22, 2009 1:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
miss*
-Announcemen Forwarded To The Following: Boston Blowsox, New York Pets, Philadelphia Phonies, And Any Other Team Who Ain't The With The Empire.................
Getcha' Fuccin Rings Up........
by NYYWinsRings27 on Dec 22, 2009 1:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought Cashman wanted to keep Dunn. I thought Yankee brass was high on Dunn
Play today, win today, ‘das it.
Not 200IP of 1.2WHIP high. Dunn could never come close to that level of value.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Hate this trade
Our OF is W-E-A-K! Gardner, Granderson, and Swisher??? This may be the weakest OF in the Majors…
The Minnesota Twins disagree with you. So do the Cardinals and most of the NL.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
so does granderson and swisher's potential to combine for 60+ hr's
man does our outfielder suck…and gardner? that guy can;t def at all obviously
I would rather have holes in the outfield
than holes in our pitching rotation.
not really...
Grandy and Swisher are actually pretty strong.
Gardner is probably not gonna be the starter..(he is now…but that doesn’t count for anything..)
Gardy could be a decent #9 hitter (we don’t have to be the globetrotters you know..an average to below average #9 hitter like Gardner, not gonna kill them).
He would make proabably the best defensive OF in the AL..or at least up there with the best.
…looking at hte positives of the OF..and there are many.
Now..I don’t think Gardner is the starter going into the season..so getting your tits in a knot over the starting lineup in December is a little bit of an overreaction,
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
and how the hell is getting rid of Melky...
leave them with a ’big hole".
Are you seriously considering Melky to be that much better then Gardner?
Melky is better..yes.
Not by much. By so little..its probably irrelevant.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
Nice trade
really solidifies the rotation (if he can pitch here well), and will send one of Hughes/Joba to the pen, where the pen will get stronger as well. I’ll miss Melky. I liked the guy.
This definitely reopens the door for a return for Johnny Damon. Hopefully they can work something out. Either way, Damon’s chances of returning just shot WAY up with this trade right here.
Should Damon come back, they have
Jeter
Damon
Tex
A-Rod
Posada
Cano
Granderson
Swisher
Johnson (getting on base before the top of the order could really help)
CC
Burnett
Andy
Vazquez
Joba/Hughes (probably Joba)
Thats a World Championship team. Now all they need to do is address left field, and a few spots off the bench and they are good to go.
I'd Flip Grandy and Swish
To keep people from unloading lefties back to back on Cano and Grand Central.
I also have no problems with Johnson in the 2 hole and GGBG in the 9 slot. That’s a better defensive team, too.
I DON LIKE THIS TRADE RITE NOW!
EVERY1 KNOWS MEKLY WILL HIT 50 BOMBS AND PLAY GR8 DEFENSE! HE’LL BE LIKE ABLERT POOHOOLS IN CF!
I AM W8TING TO HEER HOW CASHMAN IS GETTING A PLAYER 2 B NAMED LATER, WHO WILL OF COURSE BE CHIPPER JONES!!! THEN THIS DEAL WILL MAKE SENSE, ALTHOUGH CASHMAN COULD PROBABLY GET BELTRAN, SANTANA AND DAVID WRITE FROM THE METS!!!
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
^ Bitter..Bitter Red Sox fan.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Bitter and utterly
mystifying Red Sox fan.
I always feel pressure. What I don't have is fear. -- El Duque
by LateInningRelief on Dec 22, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Hilarious Red Sox
E. Coli, you bring me much joy.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Oh...
you mean its a joke and not a troll….
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Melk man gone!
I hate to see Melky go. He had several walk-off wins last season and has a decent batting average (.274). His strength is his throwing arm which holds off runners. Melky has a good number of defensive plays during his career with the Yanks. But the Yankees acquired Curtis Granderson and they still got Gardner and Swisher.
So it’s a good trade for the Yankees since they got Javier Vazquez who could solidify the starting rotation.
I love melky but imagine if the trade happened
a year ago Melky was in AAA to end the season. I say Cash sold high on the melkman
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