Around the Yankees..Galaxy?, Monday, 12/14/2009

by 3460kuri on Dec 14, 2009 8:34 AM EST in New York Yankees News

I think "galaxy" works, so we don't have to worry about getting sued.

-It seems like Brian Cashman has gone all Bernie Williams on Chien-Ming Wang, ending his Yankees career for all intents and purposes. I’m beating a dead horse here, but I don’t get it. Nobody, not even Wang’s agent it seems, was expecting anything unrealistic. But a non-guaranteed, minor-league deal? Rich Harden just got $6.5 million guaranteed for crying out loud, and while he’s is more talented, I’d bet on anybody (Wang included) to pitch more innings than Harden next season. We’re going to have to trust that Cashman knows something we don't, but I’m worried this move will could back to bite the Yankees.

-Something isn't adding up with Johnny Damon. Jon Heyman was reporting that Scott Boras was basically asking for a redux of his last contract, but Damon is saying that's not true. It’s easy to revile Boras, but it is his job to earn the most he can for his clients, and he usually does his job well. We’ll see what happens, though; even he has a big swing and miss occasionally. I remember Jeff Weaver rejecting a 3-year offer for about $25 million from the Cardinals the year after he won the World Series with them. That worked out well. On a side note, if Damon does leave the Yankees I hope he goes for the Biblical look again.

-No new developments on the chances of trading Brett Gardner. As much as I like seeing a home-grown player make a contribution with the big league club, I think Gardner’s speed makes him the type of player who’s perceived value may far exceed his actual value. Let's face it, he has no power, doesn’t get on base at an exceptionally high clip, and plays good, but not great defense. If Cashman can turn him into something useful, he should.

-Chad Jennings over at LoHud posted a great rundown of the Yankees rotation depth as of right now.

-Brian Cashman is kidding, I hope.

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how many players actually get on base at an exceptionally high rate…. 10-15 in the entire majors? It seems Brett actually does play great defense. Gardner is better than Melky.

by daneptizl on Dec 13, 2009 11:27 PM EST reply actions

I would have to agrre with all of that

and how many players have Gardy’s exceptional speed? He might be the fastest man in MLB, at least right up there. People often underrate tools that aren’t HR’s and way way way overrate HR’s (and pitch velocity).

by Peter Lacock on Dec 14, 2009 7:30 AM EST up reply actions

Listen, I am not saying that Brett Gardner is a terrible, useless baseball player.. What I am saying is that some GMs and managers have the tendency to overvalue certain players based on their speed, while overlooking other aspects of their game. The Yankees should be poised to take advantage of this if the opportunity arises.

Among AL players who came to bat as many times as he did in 2009, Gardner’s .345 OBP was 63rd best in the American League. The AL as a whole got on base at a .335 clip. It’s far from terrible, but equally far from excellent. Defensive metrics are mixed; Baseball Prospectus had Gardner as below average last season (-6 FRAA) while Fangraphs had him as well above-average (7.2 UZR). I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that with his speed, he’s probably an above average defensive outfielder.

Realistically, though, Gardner doesn’t hit well enough to play anywhere but center )and even that’s a bit of a stretch) and the Yankees have a superior option there in Curtis Granderson anyway. He’s probably best suited for fourth-outfielder duty, as his speed will allow him to play all three defensive positions well, and his bat is decent enough that it won’t kill a team should an injury force him into the lineup for an extended period, but the Yankees already have at least one and perhaps two fourth outfielders, depending on how you view Melky Cabrera.

The trade rumors said that both the White Sox and Royals viewed Gardner not as a fourth outfielder but as a leadoff hitter. So if either team is willing to trade something the Yankees need, shouldn’t Cashman be more than happy to sell high from a position of strength?

by 3460kuri on Dec 14, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions

Does anyone even read through the threads here anymore.

All the Yankees did was non-tender him for arbitration. Had they done so they would have had to pay him an absurd amount of money. By rule they could not offer him a non-guaranteed, minor-league deal at this point. They can still offer him a low-risk, incentive-laden contract later. It has been said over and over in the comments and yet people keep posting diaries lamenting the fact that they did not make a fool decision that would have brought Wang back at at least $4,000,000 and probably more.
Wang has been hurt for two seasons and will not be ready until May at the earliest. Letting him go to aribitration would have been stupid.

by garp on Dec 14, 2009 12:17 AM EST reply actions

I hear that

and I don’t get what there is to not get about this. It’s pretty simple if you look at it objectively.

by Peter Lacock on Dec 14, 2009 7:32 AM EST up reply actions

According to the link, the Yankees offered him a non-guaranteed, minor league contract in lieu of offering him arbitration.

That is stupid.

by 3460kuri on Dec 14, 2009 8:41 AM EST up reply actions

With all due respect,

you do sound emotional here. They couldn’t offer him a guaranteed contract while he’s arbitration-eligible… that’s the way the rules work. Now that they’ve non-tendered him, they can offer whatever sort of deal they wish. Could be nothing… I don’t think that will be the case. Could be a crazy-rich deal that’s above the allowable ceiling for arbitration… I don’t think that’s the case, either. Most likely is an offer with guaranteed money that comes in somewhat lower than $4 million.

For Wang’s part, at the end of the day this is a business decision. If no other team is willing to offer better than what the Yankees eventually do (assuming I’m right about the above), Wang is very likely to re-sign with the Yankees.

The decision for the Yankees as well as all the other teams is this: how much do they want to guarantee to a pitcher who will be 30 in 2010, just had shoulder surgery, has been largely on the shelf for the past 2 seasons, and was spectacularly ineffective when he did pitch?

I like Wang and I understand why the Yankees are approaching things the way they are.

by pinstriper on Dec 14, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions

It's a little more complicated, isn't it?

By non-tendering, the Yankees have given up the right to negotiate with Wang until May, so there’s a good chance there won’t be a later in which they can offer him a low-risk contract. If I were he, I wouldn’t wait around.

That being said, I tend to agree with the people who think the Yankees must know something about his medical reports.

Usqueadbaugham! Anam muck an dhoul ! Did ye drink me doornail?

by Q-TDSK on Dec 14, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions

Unless you have access to Wang's medical reports...

…I really don’t think you can comment one way or the other on what the Yankees did.

And as several people have already commented, they can still sign him. Paying him a guaranteed $4 million when you have no idea what he’ll give you makes no sense.

by New York Sports Jerk on Dec 14, 2009 12:45 AM EST reply actions

That statement

‘Paying him a guaranteed $4 million when you have no idea what he’ll give you makes no sense.’
says all that needs said. Debating re-signing him is all well and good but debating non-tendering him is mindless and completely emotional.

by Peter Lacock on Dec 14, 2009 7:41 AM EST up reply actions

Juan Miranda has earned a chance to play in the majors

He has done enough in the minors that he deserves a chance to prove if he can do it at the highest level.

by Peter Lacock on Dec 14, 2009 7:47 AM EST reply actions

I agree he deserves a shot. So if he gets traded I’ll be happy for him. But I want a more experienced hitter to be the LF or DH.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 14, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions

Your viewpoint is certainly valid.

At the same time, what if we had taken your approach with Bernie Williams? Or Jeter? Or Mattingly? Or Posada? Or Pettitte? Or Mo? It took Bernie several seasons to develop into a star. It wasn’t at all clear in the beginning that Jeter could field SS at all, or that Mo could make it as a MLB pitcher, or that Mattingly could even reach MLB level as more than a reserve player. And on and on. At some point you have to take a little bit of a risk and try some of these guys. No risk, no reward… and the rewards from all the above, plus others, have been pretty good, haven’t they?

by pinstriper on Dec 14, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions

The Yankees had Tony Fernandez around as insurance in 1996.
Bernie Williams would have been acceptable as a defense first CF.
Rivera was tried as a starter before emerging as a setup man for Wettland.

I’m not saying the Yanks should trade for Pujols to DH, or even that they HAVE to sign Matsui. But if we’re putting Melky in LF, I want a better hitter at DH to maintain the advantage our lineup has over the rest of the league.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Dec 14, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions

GGBG

is the kind of guy that is more valuable to the Yankees than a lot of other teams. he’ll probably never be good enough to start on the Yanks, but his qualities are absolutely perfect for a bench player: speed and defense, of which he ranks among the best in MLB.

when you only ask him to pinch-run and play D, his negative qualities (lack of power) are diminished. if he was on the Royals, he’d be getting 4-5 PA/game, and that would really decrease his value.

if Cash can’t find a trade that makes the Yankees a better team now and/or in the future (iow, don’t just trade him simply bc he’s at peak value), then there’s no reason to do it. having GGBG on the 2010 Yanks is truly an asset. for the role he has, there’s hardly a better player in MLB.

by Travis G on Dec 14, 2009 11:57 AM EST reply actions

Gotta say, the one thing I like about Gardner off the bench is that he typically enters the game as a pinch runner… that nullifies his possible troubles with OBP… and it lets him use his best attribute, namely his speed, to full advantage. The Yankees don’t usually have guys who can have such an impact on a game by virtue of speed, hasn’t been since WAY back with Rickey Henderson, really… IMHO that gives the team another dimension and ultimately makes the offense better.

by pinstriper on Dec 14, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, his speed is amazing...

…which is why he was thrown out both times he tried to steal against the Angels.

Everyone wants Gardner to succeed, but some people are unrealistic in their expectations. He’s going to be 26 years old and has yet to prove that he can hit major league pitching. Comparisons to Bernie Williams? Absurd, Bernie was 22 when he came up and was already a better hitter than Gardner. The window on Gardner’s ability to improve is closing every day, and if the Yankees can include him in a trade for someone that will help them, they’d be stupid to hang onto him just because he’s fast and gritty.

by New York Sports Jerk on Dec 14, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions

Who's comparing Gardner to Bernie!?!

And where exactly is your argument? If we can work a trade for additional value, great! If not, Gardner will have value to the Yankees. Case closed.

by pinstriper on Dec 14, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions

Up in the thread...

…and you compared him to Rickey Henderson.

by New York Sports Jerk on Dec 14, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions

My gosh

your reading skills could stand some improvement.

What I actually said with respect to Bernie:

“Guys, this is NOT an argument to play Gardner fulltime or even not to trade him (and it’s not an argument that Gardner is another Bernie)”

In other words, Gardner is not another Bernie.

What I actually said with respect to Henderson:

“The Yankees don’t usually have guys who can have such an impact on a game by virtue of speed, hasn’t been since WAY back with Rickey Henderson, really…”

In other words, Gardner is fast. A baserunner with that much speed can distract a pitcher and disrupt a defense. The Yankees don’t normally have those kind of guys. A long time ago, Rickey Henderson did that sort of stuff on the Yankees. Nowhere do I equate Gardner to Rickey Henderson in any way other than the fact that Gardner is fast and Henderson used to be fast a long time ago.

by pinstriper on Dec 14, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions

completely

disregard his 87% SB rate (39/45) bc he was gunned down TWICE in the LCS. fantastic.

by Travis G on Dec 14, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions

Which is a useless number...

…if he can’t get on base.

And McDaniel, keep talking about strikeouts. At least Swisher delivers a little pop with his K numbers, what is Gardner giving you for all the strikeouts he brings?

by New York Sports Jerk on Dec 14, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions

So how did he have the opportunity to make 45 attempts

if he was never on base?

And which Yankee had 39 steals in the past 5 years?

by pinstriper on Dec 14, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions

You play to a players strength....

Once you do that you need not worry about his weaknesses. Basbeall isn’t like football and basketball in relation to match-ups. You put bret on the bench and use him in those late game situations when you need a pinch runner who can play the outfield if need be….That’s an asset.
If you trade Bret for someone else who is better with the bat and OBP. Then go ahead. But don’t trade him for someone just like him who can do just what he can. Makes no sense going sideways.

So hopefully if they do we get somebody who was worth a damn.

-Announcemen Forwarded To The Following: Boston Blowsox, New York Pets, Philadelphia Phonies, And Any Other Team Who Ain't The With The Empire.................

Getcha' Fuccin Rings Up........

by NYYWinsRings27 on Dec 14, 2009 12:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions