Why isn't Granderson projected to lead off?
by jpoppejr on Dec 12, 2009 8:30 PM EST
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PrintI understand Granderson is relatively weak against lefties, but why wouldn't the Yanks lead him off? Jeter is not a lead off hitter. He is a great #2 batter. Having the first baseman holding Granderson on will just further increase Jeter's already legendary numbers. I just do not see the benefits of having Granderson bat anywhere else. Granted hitting 20 - 30 hrs is nice to have in the mid to lower part of the lineup, but we already have them down there.
Even if the Yanks sign Damon, I'm still thinking Granderson should lead off and Jeter bat second.
I still think the Yanks need a #5 hitter.
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Me thinks ya skipped 2009.
Jeter = Lead off hitter.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
yeah
did you not watch 2009? he was phenomonal as the lead off hiter. he hit .334 and stole 30 bases. over 200 hits. 107 runs. obp was over .400.
what more do you want from a lead off hitter?
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 12, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
no
his on base percentage isnt high enough to hit 1 or even 2 to be honest. he’s more suited hitting 5th or 6th
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 12, 2009 8:51 PM EST reply actions
Did you watch this season?
Jeter was 3rd in the MVP voting as a lead off hitter this year. He’s a great leadoff hitter.
The Yankees took him out of the #2 hole for a reason. He hits into millions of DPs. He’s a great #2 hitter, but in my mind, an even better leadoff hitter. Granderson’s OBP is WAY too low to be a leadoff hitter. He’s more of a power guy, and if Damon comes back, he should be in the lower part of the order. Assuming that Damon returns, this is what it would be.
Jeter
Damon
Tex
A-Rod
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Granderson
Cabrera
Granderson may hit second if Damon doesn’t come back, but I assure you, he’s not leading off.
he wouldnt hit 8th.
he’d hit 6th in between posada and cano. personally i think he should hit 5th so if posada is on in front of him, he would be free to steal and posada’s slow legs wouldnt slow granderson down on the basepaths
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 12, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather him be after Swish, I like that lineup.
I know Cano’s fine off of lefties, but he’s better of righties.
Why have 2 lefties in a row?
5th is a little too high, but certainly doable, even if he is no better than 2009.
Jeter
DH/LF/Cervelli
Tex
A-Rod
Jorgey
Cano (I think Robbie “breaks out” this year)
Swish
G.Central
Melkett Cabredner.
The LF could be Damon. Could be Matt Holliday ( :)…)
If they don’t go big bucks on the LF, I think they’ll get a DH, probably Mats, and I have no idea who bats 2nd.
I wanna say Swisher cuz of the high OBP.
I’d also like Cano cuz of the high contact rate (and you just can’t have his terrible bad luck 2 years in a row.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 12, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
that lineup makes no sense.
first of all, if you think cervelli is gonna be in a starting lineup consistently, your crazy.
secondly, it makes so much more sense to bat Granderson 5th. here’s my reasoning.
Jorge can’t run. Neither can Cano or Swisher. They’re not gonna steal bases. So, why have someone who will put up similar power numbers AND can steal bat behind all three of those guys when you can bat him 5th? That way, he’ll be able to run more and the bases won’t be clogged up by guys who wont be stealing.
Lineup (assuming damon comes back)
1. Jeter – steals
2. Damon – steals
3. Tex – doesnt steal
4. A-Rod – steals
5. Granderson – steals
6. Jorge – doesnt steal
7. Cano – doesnt steal
8. Swisher – doesnt steal
9. Melky – doesnt steal
It makes much more sense to bat him there instead of behind three guys who wont be running freely
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 14, 2009 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
?
The hell is putting Grandy behind A-Rod cuz he steals gonna do? When do the Yankees double steal?
Would’n’t putting all that “doesn’t steal” in a row cause a log-jam on the basepaths?
You gotta mix it up and put some speed down there.
So no..yours doesn’t make sense.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
exactly it creates a log jam for granderson. why have him stuck behind posada cano and swish? that makes no sense.
this happened on an 18u baseball team of mine where the lineup had this slow kid hitting 4th. hed walk a lot and create a log jam on the bases for faster kids behind him. thats what would happen in granderson hit behind all those guys. let him run, get in scoring position, and let posada cano and swish drive him in.
that makes much more sense.
and no one says theyd have to double steal. yanno, there are instances where A-Rod doesnt get on base and there would be no one in front of granderson.
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 14, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Granderson is a run producer too.
Don’t act like he’s Brett Gardner now. The guy had 71 RBI’s last year, mostly from the leadoff spot.
The only 2 players in the Yankee lineup that create a “logjam” so to speak, are Tex and Posada, tho Tex is not THAT slow.
The other guys get on base, Grandy can drive them in.
Also, in the 8th spot, Cano gets his bases empty single, Swisher walks, Grandy’s on with 2 men on.
This is a deep lineup. Posada is more of a run producer than anyone not named Tex or A-Rod, so he’s 5th.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
exactly, he is a run producer that can steal too.
I didnt say he was brett gardner but id bet that granderson is either first or second on the team in steals next year.
Swisher doesnt create a logjam? the man didnt even ATTEMPT to steal last year. not once. Cano had 5. Posada surprisingly had 1. why would you want a guy with the ability to steal 20 or 30 bases hitting behind all those slow guys? he’ll never get the opportunity to run.
so he should be hitting 5th.
and i completely disagree on posada.
Posada is an aging catcher who isnt gonna be playing 140 games anymore. Id rather have speed and run producing ability out of my 5 hole than just run producing.
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 15, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
So....
Tex wouldn’t create a log jam? Matsui was the #5 hitter most of the time…worked out good didn’t it? What is the difference in speed with Posada and Mats? Posada’s actually ‘faster’
A-Rod doesn’t steal much. He steals…but not nearly as much as Jeter or Granderson.
And your just basing this on steals, I’m basing it on how bad Granderson is vs. Lefties.
The Yanks usually make their lineup based on balance from each side of the plate.
Posada will get his time in the lineup. He won’t catch for 140 games of course, but he’ll be DHing a lot.
I’d rather him down in the order and between 2 switch hitters.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 15, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
...
Tex is irrelevant he’s the clear number 3 hitter. he can flat out hit. you ideally want a little of everything out of your 3 hitter, but so be it.
A-Rod does steal. he didnt steal much last year because of the hip but he still had double digits. he even had 3 in one game.
Im not basing this solely on steals. im basing this on the fact that granderson has the same ability the other guys have (swish, posada, cano) to drive the ball out of the park (He actually had more home runs than those three did in a bigger park)…AND has the ability to steal.
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 16, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Jeter as lead off? No way the Yankees win anything
with Jeter batting lead off!…oh wait. Never mind.
+1
It’s like that Louisiana justice of the peace who refused to marry an interracial couple. He said that being a mixed-race child was a disadvantage cuz there aren’t any sucessful mixed race people. Except those two guys…
What are their names?
Ogama?
Leeter?
Can’t remember…
"Son, Nobody is half as good as Mickey Mantle"
that wasn't what he said...
he said that being of mixed race is tougher on children because they don’t quite belong to either group. I don’t really agree with him, but I can see what he was saying because some mulatto people do say that.
Of course, he had already decided not to marry the couple
and was looking for a good excuse to back up his decision… you know, so he didn’t look like a racist of a bigot or anything…
For some reason...
Some managers, especially old school guys like Leyland, Torre and Piniella, feel that if someone is fast they should lead off. This is the kind of logic that had Alfonso Soriano hitting 40 homers and driving in 90 in his prime because he was batting behind the worst hitter in the lineup. The top of the order is for guys who get on base a lot, and as a bonus, hit for a high average and run well. Granderson is a power hitter who happens to run well. He should bat anywhere from 5th to 8th depdning on how well he plays.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Dec 13, 2009 3:30 AM EST reply actions
Jeter has a .400+ OBP every year.
The hell took so long to make him the leadoff man?
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 13, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
Because Damon was your protypical basestealer.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 13, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Jeter has 90 steals since Damon's been here....
Damon has 93.
?
Pretty much both prototypes I’d think?
Jete’s got a .388OBP career, Damon .355 career OBP.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 13, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Torre could answer you. Damon, once the faster guy, has always batted leadoff and Jeter in the #2 hole. Why alter their approaches if they’ve both been successful at where they are. But Girardi figured differently this year.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 13, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Classic managerial strategy
puts a really fast, no-power, high OBP guy in leadoff because there won’t be anyone in front of them to keep them from stealing plenty of bases. They’ll also be able to score on a softer hit and/or from more bases away from home. This rationale assumes the really fast guys are typically little guys who don’t have much power (so they’d be wasted lower in the lineup anyway). For the most part it’s true. In the case of Rickey Henderson, the bonus was a guy who actually DID have some power… so every once in a while he’d leadoff with a homer! Nothing like having the opposition losing with the very first batter of the game. :-)
Problem with that theory..
Which many managers employ is that you are taking one of the worst hitters in your lineup and giving him the most plate appearances. You’re also putting someone who makes out 67-68% of the time right in front of the best hitters in your lineup. The fact that he can steal or take extra bases doesn’t make up for not getting on base enough.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Dec 17, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
you do realize...
that if you make an out 67 or 68% of the time, you’re hitting .330 or .320. making an out 70% is considered a very good hitter. thats .300
thats the beauty of baseball. you can fail 70% of the time and be considered an all star.
by Frank Campagnola on Dec 17, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
the hole at first
jeter righty. gets on base and opens the hole at first for a lefty in the #2 spot. worked well last year. plus granderson strikes out too often to lead off. also, he rarely grounds into a double play. i think only once last year. all good reasons for jeter #1 and granderson #2.
Versus righties
I don’t mind Granderson in the #2 hole. Facing lefties is a whole another story.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 13, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
I think it comes down to BA.
Granderson really isn’t a high average hitter, which is what you look for in a leadoff guy. He seems more like a power guy so I would bat him later in the lineup.
"Son, Nobody is half as good as Mickey Mantle"
**On base.
Batting average does nothing if his BA is .300 and his OBP is .320.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 13, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Because
Granderson’s more of a slugging guy than an on base guy.
basically, against righty he should hit around 5th. against lefty he should hit 9th or sit.
It's moot..
Because who knows how Granderson will hit come 2010. He could have a great season in a multitude of spots. If they don’t resign Damon, I can see Granderson hitting #2 behind Jeter, If they do sign Damon, he probably hits sandwiched between Jorge and Swish (tough for managers in late innings because of the switch hitters).
I’m wondering if maybe Granderson should hit third?
(Assuming Damon signs)
1. Jeter
2. Damon
3. Granderson
4. A-rod
5. Teixeira
6. Posada
7. Cano
8. Swisher
9. Melky
Late in games there is no way
a team wouldnt go to their bullpen and bring in a lefty to face Damon and Granderson. And it’s been well documented that both struggle against lefties. I would go with this
Jeter
Damon
A-Rod
Tex
Granderson
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Melky
I think that if we stagger the switch hitters like that we would DEVOUR a lot of bullpens.
This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons.
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