Girardi made the right call
Everybody has an opinion on New York Yankee Manager Joe Girardi's decision to stick with three starting pitchers in the World Series, meaning A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte and CC Sabathia (if necessary) are all working on short rest.
Mine is this. I love it.
Of course we know it did not work out last night, when Burnett imploded and gave up six runs in two innings. Did that have anything to do with pitching on short rest? Impossible to say.
What you can say is this. Burnett had pitched on short rest four times previously in his career, and had pitched to a 2.33 ERA. Most likely last night was just a case of the 'Bad A.J.' showing up an inopportune time.
Still, love the fact that Girardi is going to sink or swim the rest of the way with his best guys.
In that regard, I have to agree with Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News.
A.J. Burnett was awful in Game 5, and while many will now second-guess Joe Girardi’s decision to start him on short rest, you won’t see any of that in this space. Burnett said he felt fine physically, he just couldn’t throw strikes. He went through the same thing on regular rest in Anaheim in Game 5 of the ALCS, so I’ll take him at his word that the short rest wasn’t the cause for his brutal outing. He had a terrible game, plain and simple. Can anybody tell me that they would have felt as confident with Chad Gaudin - who has thrown one inning in the postseason and 2 1/3 innings since Sept. 28 - starting Game 5 of the World Series? If you can answer that question with a "Yes," then you should have your head examined. If anything, the decision to use Burnett on short rest is an indictment of the Yankees’ lack of pitching depth, something that took a huge hit with Chien-Ming Wang’s injury and Joba Chamberlain’s terrible second half. If they had a fourth starter they trusted, it would have been an easy call to start him in Game 4 or 5. But they don’t, so they’re going to live or die with the three guys that got them to this point.
To me, that perfectly covers all of the essential points.
Now, will I be nervous Wednesday night when Andy Pettitte takes the mound? Sure. But, I'm still happier about an extra start from Pettitte -- even on short rest -- than I would be simply have seen Girardi mostly forfeit a game by using Gaudin.
If Pettitte doesn't get it done Wednesday I will be on the verge of a breakdown Thursday for Game 7. That, though, is the game Brian Cashman signed CC Sabathia to pitch. So, you still have to feel good about the Yankees right now.
They need one win. Philly needs two. In Yankee Stadium. Advantage Yankees.
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+100000000000
I’ve said all along, all that matters is whether your #3 starter on three days rest is better than the #4 starter.
No, I actually completely disagree here
I said all along it would be better to start Gaudin. In this case it works in hindsight too, not because AJ was bad on short rest but because he was just the “Bad AJ” that we all fear.
You’re telling me Chad Gaudin couldn’t have done better than 6 runs in 2+ innings? Hell, AJ actually wasted a fine effort from the offense that tagged the mighty Lee for 5 runs. If Gaudin just had a typical Gaudin outing of 5 innings the 3-4 runs we have a very real shot to clinch.
You say using Gaudin would have been like a forfeit. As it turns out, using him would have given us at worst a performance similar to AJ and at best a very legit shot at the title. And this isn’t even why I never liked the move to begin with.
The real reason I didn’t like this move was that while AJ has shown to be capable on short rest, Andy Pettitte has a mixed history with it and is 37, coming off a performance where he was admittedly gassed at the end. Putting AJ on short rest forces us to use Andy on short rest. We’ll see tomorrow how badly Girardi’s maneuver backfires on us.
I never thought this was a good move.
The problem is...
AJ has the potential to be unhittable every time he goes out there. If you pitch Gaudin against Lee, you are basically conceding the game. AJ, when he’s on, which unfortunately he was not last night, can match Lee.
Exactly
You never concede a game at this point.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 3, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
But as I said:
1) pitching Gaudin wouldn’t be conceding the game. Hell, it would have given us a better chance than AJ.
2) It’s not so much AJ on 3 days rest that bothers me, it’s the fact that doing so forces Andy to be on 3 days rest.
I agree with this...
Gaudin wouldn’t mean you concede the game.
Yet in hindsight, its easy to say Gaudin could have done better.
The idea that Gaudin could have done the same is irrelevant.
ITs the idea that AJ Burnett would be pitching game 6. THAT is why its a good move.
The same outcome of game 5 then AJ starts game 6? I like AJ, he’s my boy…but the risk of AJ on full days rest vs. Pettite on 3 days…I take Andy any time.
Andy will keep em in it. I think the O is alive now. Pedro stifled them after they didn’t know what hit em with Cliff Lee in game 1.
Game 6 is on the offense. We got MO for 2 now anyway as an option.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 3, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
That's where we disagree
Look at A.J.‘s history on three days rest. It had never been a problem for him. My feeling is you go with your best.
We disagree, and that’s OK. We are still on the same side. We want our team to win.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 3, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
So the REAL question becomes...
Are you more comfortable with CC (again) on 3 days rest — or ANDY fully rested?
If the later — pitch Gaudin in Game 6 and start Andy game 7 on a short leash — with CC lurking.
...AJ, WHEN and IF he is on...
That’s just the point right there, WHEN AND IF AJ is on he is good. The sad and dissapointing part is you can never be sure when AJ will be on. It’s like throwing a coin and calling heads or tails, most of the time you will land on heads (AJ being “on” is the tails side). I have to admit, AJ when he is on is a good pitcher. Like in game 2, however, I don’t think you can call a pitcher great yet never be sure if he will go out and get the job done. CC goes out there and I have no doubt in my mind he is going to win; all the confidence in the world for him. AJ goes out there and I hate to say it but I almost always fear we will be behind in the game or walk away with a loss.
...I don't have just one man, I have many men, I'm a Yankees fan!...
Not saying that
What I am saying is I would rather see Pettitte get two starts in the Series, under any circumstances, that Gaudin get one. Shoot, Gaudin is only going to last 3-4 innings even if he is lights out, anyway.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 3, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Fair Enough
I understand your point, I just disagree with it, and continue to do so even though it didn’t work out last night. IMNSHO Starting AJ was the right move there. There is a possible disaster scenario in every option, all a manager can do is put his team in the best position to win. Starting Gaudin can get you tattoed as well, and then “Bad AJ” shows up in Game 6, and you have to go for a Game 7 with either a rested Pettite or CC on three days. Then you’re putting the WS on the line with one of your top weapons undeployed. Not good.
Just because they ultimately scored six runs last night, there’s no guarantee that the Yankees score six runs if Gaudin starts – the whole game may have played out differently. A manager makes his judgment about what is going to give his team the best chance to win and then the players settle it. There have been plenty of moves that Girardi has made that I haven’t liked, but the three man WS rotation is not one of them.
opps
i meant that in response to GMan83201
Although I will agree with this piece from the original post:
“They need one win. Philly needs two. In Yankee Stadium. Advantage Yankees.”
Gaudin in a gimme game
There’s always plenty of hindsight following a bad outcome, but in this case I think it’s warranted. Gaudin certainly doesn’t suck. After some adjustments from Eiland to add tilt to his slider, he’s shown down the stretch that he’s a quality arm. Pitching him with a 3-1 lead benefits Burnett and Pettitte.
I agree with the above post. You never really know what AJ is going to show up. But pitching him on 3 days rest I believe tips the scales for bad AJ to show up.
Now we have an aging Pettitte going on three days rest and in the wake of him telling teammates he had nothing. I think it’s a risky move by Girardi—one that I wouldn’t have signed off on.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Except history disproves the assumption...
that AJ sucked BECAUSE of short rest. In fact, at 4-0, his history suggests short rest had nothing to do with his suckiness. His suckiness is merely (and always will be) a 50/50 proposition because when all is said and done AJ Burnet is either as untouchable or as lousy as a drunken whiffleballer. In other words — a number 3 pitcher — and not the trusted number 2 wingman all championship rotations need.
Face it. We got a good pitcher but we overspent. We’ll live with it and enjoy it. But regardless of what goes down over the next two games, WE STILL GOT SOME SHOPPIN’ TO DO this off-season.
Can you imagine if we had moved on Cliff Lee? Can you imagine a Doc Halliday in 2011? Sure not going to happen — but with Andy getting older, Wang not the answer, and Chamberlain and Hughes perpetually and perennially in and out of day camp THAT 2-SPOT is the missing link — and the answer is not on our roster.
A.J. was the right call by Joe G.
but two other decisions were not IMHO.
1. The Long Term : Joe decided to use Gardner as a pinch runner exclusivly this postseason. Brett has had less than 10 at bats in about a month until last night and it showed. He couldn’t pull the trigger, looking at strike after strike. There have been multiple opportunities to get Brett a start this postseason, and right now the Yanks are paying for not doing it.
2. The Short Term: With the loss of Melky, Posada should have started. Plugging in Molina meant we were missing three of our regulars on a night when Lee was beatable. Swisher was batting 5th last night: enough said.
"Here, if you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake, and I have a straw. There it is, that's a straw, you see? You watching?. And my straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake... I... drink... your... milkshake!"-Daniel Plainview
by yankee come lately on Nov 3, 2009 11:14 AM EST reply actions
yeah its good
that we will have matsui and posada in the lineup for the rest of the way.
by justinxyankeesfan on Nov 3, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
agreed
that lineup was pretty weak after #4
Disagree
Starting Gardner once in a while because he “might” need to start later because of injury?
1. That takes the bat out of Melky’s hands and Melky is a better option at the plate every time. You can’t go with your second best options in the post season. This is also why I’m glad Girardi is using 3 starters.
2. It means Gardner cannot be used as a pinch runner in a critical spot.
Also disagree with starting Posada. Having your starting pitcher comfortable is more important than having 8 strong bats instead of 7. And look at it this way, if Molina is still in there in the 7th inning that means Burnett is on fire. If Burnett is struggling, Posada will be in for the critical later innings anyway.
I’m almost certain that when Joe sits a guy like Posada or Swisher, he tells them ‘be ready because you WILL be pinch hitting in an important situation.’ That has happened for Posada in every Burnett game and he has come thru.
I like it too.
we can all go ahead and do the easy thing and bash the hell out of it cuz if failed yesterday….such a cop out.
Girardi made the right move with AJ…cuz I really would not want AJ starting game 6, simple as that.
Gaudin would have given them the option for AJ in game 6? No, F that. AJ is just as capable of imploding on any days rest. Andy? Not so much.
IF you think the 3 days matters? AJ was previously excellent on 3 days.
The only bad move he made yesterday was not pinch running for Matsui, which…may have matter, may not. We don’t have Gardner to PR, and Pena is Melky Cabrera fast…so basically not a SB threat.
Coke? I liked the move. I really don’t understand why you pitch to Utley at all…so maybe that’s a complain. Still…why the hell they insist on throwing the ball RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE…I don’t know.
Bottom line…I want Andy for game 6. He’s already earned his status as one of the greatest Yankee pitchers of all time. Wednesday should be the icing on the cake.
The thing we forget about…Cliff Lee, even if he was mediocre yesterday…is still a CC like pitcher. Pedro, Hamels, Blanton, Happ….this is all they have now.
We got Andy and CC.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nothing in AJ's resume suggested he would fail on 3 day's rest
him having a bad outing has little to do with the 3 days rest and on him not hitting the peanut strike zone
AJ lives on the borderline strikes so he can get ahead then work in his curve. It’s obvious the Ump squeezed the zone for both pitchers. Hence y both starters were far from amazing. Lee can last longer due to more of a array of pitches, but for a two pitch pitcher like AJ not getting ahead can kill him cuz then he can;t use that curve out of the zone he lives on.
more than a few times...
with umps with tight zone’s, AJ fails.
The thing I saw with AJ was where the hell was that 2-seamer? Worked so well in game 2, yet no where in sight for game 5.
I though that was the best part of game 2. He use the 2 seamer more than the 4 seamer.
Really, I don’t understand what made him go away from it.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 3, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
he threw a 2 seamer...and utley hit it out of the park for the 3 run hr
the movemnt on is 2 seamer is harder for him to control. It’s either on the outside or over the plate. The graphs shows he wasn’t getting the border calls, so it would be safe to assume thats why they avoided the 2 seamer
TO be fair to the umps
I don’t know if any sized strike zone coulda saved AJ tonight. He was just Bad AJ at the worst possible time.
+!
A.J.‘s biggest downfall is his inability to make adjustments. I believe that it’s at least half caused by a kind of natural stubborness; bourn out also in his insistence on Molina over Posada.
"Here, if you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake, and I have a straw. There it is, that's a straw, you see? You watching?. And my straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake... I... drink... your... milkshake!"-Daniel Plainview
by yankee come lately on Nov 3, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
AJ shows he needs Molina...
by throwing well to Molina.
I don’t want Molina seeing the light of day either…yet you really couldn’t go and put Posada in there after AJ’s game 2
Again…the only person to blame for it is AJ.
If he did the same thing with Posada back there…then they should’ve started Molina.
Posada played most of the game anyway, so really it was moot.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 3, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
If Posada Started That Game Last Night
You guys wouldve been killing Girardi for screwing with AJ and his rhythm with Molina. I think posada not starting didnt figure into the equation. Bigger question, should Joe start Hinske over Swisher? Hinske has great numbers against Pedro.
yeah he was bad i'm not denying it
but the most obvious difference this game from last game was first pitch strikes, which aj wasn’t getting. this is also partial on molina for not adjusting his location to adapt to the zone.
There was no second guessing here
There was first guessing. And we were right, much like the Robertson/Aceves switch in Game 3. Doesn’t mean the “Fire Joe” crowd is ALWAYS right, but in this case we were.
AJ is a headcase, and you have to give him every opportunity to succeed. AJ at home has an ERA 1.3 runs lower than AJ on the road.
AJ might have a good history on short rest…but did those starts come in the post-season, at the end of a long season? Did they come against a credible opposition? That sample size is WAY too small to make a decision. The one that matters is pitchers are something like 12-36 on short rest in the post-season over the past 20, 30 years.
Now we have Andy Pettitte, 37 years old, on short rest, after a middling performance which exposed that he’s tired. I know we have a Yankee legend pitching Saturday…but if past performance was what mattered, I’d be on the phone to Ron Guidry.
Last night should have been Gaudin 3, maybe 4, Ace 3, then see where the game is. If Gaudin was his usual mediocre self, we probably win that game, or at least he’s on a quicker hook and we don’t wait for 6 runs to figure out whether he has it.
The only good thing about last night was some of our relievers (Hughes, Ace) looked better and our offense put the fear of God into Philly about their bullpen. They will absolutely keep Pedro in too long Wednesday night. Only question is whether it’s enough.
A close call
I liked Gaudin last night because I thought it maximized our chance of winning the series by increasing the probability of winning either game 6 or 7. I stand by that prognosis.
I thought the Yanks would scuffle for runs last night. The irony is that if you had told me that the Yankees would score 5 against Lee last night, I would have said throw Burnett since he gave us the best chance of keeping the Phillies under 5.
This is why we love baseball and arguing about baseball. In no other sport do disputes like this provoke this level of debate.
Can anyone explain why AJ insists/demands on Molina catching for him over Posada? Obviously it doesn’t work. He gave up 4 runs in the 1st in Anaheim and 3 in the 1st last night and went to the showers after 2 innings. So why? All NY gets is a much weaker bat with Molina and AJ gets to satisfy his ego proving he is the boss over Girardi. This is bullshit. If he threw a shutout everynight with Molina it would be a different story but he cannot be counted on. He has proved that.
It was Joe's decision, not AJ
Statistically, AJ is better with Molina. Small sample size and all that, but AJ-Posada had a couple of memorable blowups in the middle of the summer and Joe decided to go with Jose.
by PortlandYankee on Nov 3, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
figues that a doomsdayer...
skims over game 2…….
I never was a fan of Molina starting, but game 2 said you start Molina.
It didn’t matter. If Jorge started….you’d be all “Why is MOLINA not in there…AJ pitched so good in game 2!!!!”.
Give it a break.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 3, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Have faith
Everyone needs to believe in Andy. If there is one pitcher who has earned the faith of everybody it HAS GOT to be Andy.
by Gelatin on Nov 3, 2009 12:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions
...I agree....
I agree with you that you gotta believe in Andy. He has pitched in so many post season games so he definitely deserves everyones confidence. The only difference is, yeah he seems to be getting tired, and maybe he needs 2 or sometimes 3 innings to get into the grove. However, once he settled in on Saturday night’s game he was good. He didnt stress and give up runs, he stayed calm and eventually got the job done. Andy is a pitcher that you have the confidence to let him stay in a few more innings and let him clean up his “mess”. Unlike Burnett who you absolutely take out because it usually can only go down hill from there. I’m with Andy, he’s got the win for Wednesday in the best city, NY!
...I don't have just one man, I have many men, I'm a Yankees fan!...
Give it a rest
Yes the bad AJ showed up in Game 5, who knows what Gaudin would have given them maybe better, maybe not. Would it have been possbile to have beaten Lee, maybe considering how bad a start he gave the Phillies. Yes, Lee’s start was a bad one, probably the 3rd worse of the Series, only behind Burnett’s and Hamel’s meltdowns. He gave up 5 runs in 7 innings people, that is an ERA of 6.43. He got lucky that he pitched this game against Burnett and that Coke bombed as well. Without the 2 homeruns off Coke, against lefties, the Yankees tie the game in the ninth at 6-6 because the Phillies have no closer. Both Lee and Burnett would then have gotten a no decision.
Actually
Lee was good. The problem with you guys is that you look at stupid things like ERA which are really team run prevention metrics. Howard made an awful play not keeping the speedy Hinske from scoring by turning his back to step on 1st when Damon was no where close to the bag. All he has to do is keep his body facing 3rd as he steps on first and the second run does not score. And you can credit Manuel with the rest of the runs-he takes a fast and fair CF out (Victorino), replaces him with Francisco and keeps Ibanez in. Hmm…that makes sense. Ibanez is a career minus in LF and can’t move side to side. If Francisco is in LF than none of those runs scored, especially since he actually K-ed Damon before the infield single. I understand what you are saying (enough runs were scored off of him that the Yankees would have had a great shot if Burnett was serviceable) but it is wrong to mix these points up.
Lee Was Average Last Night
Howard made the right play. You take the sure out, you dont get cute and throw home for what was a meaningless run at that point. You also cant know that Francisco catches that ball, suppose he slips. I hate when people predict outcomes after the fact. You can never tell what is going to happen. The perfect example is when Castillo dropped ARods pop up. Thats why this great game is played on the field and not on paper. Always remember Paper is for wiping.
If Gaudin started Game 5 and got bombed..
then we would have AJ instead of Andy in game 6. Whether its on short rest, regular rest, extended rest, you never know what AJ you will get. Gaudin has become the new Gardner on here. Most of the same guys that were pining for Gardner are the guys that wanted Gaudin. Now that you got Gardner, you see why it took an injury to get him into the lineup. Now Gaudin is being treated like El Duque in his prime is being left on the bench. Hello, Its Chad Gaudin!
Is anyone concerned
that we have a five year commitment to a guy who apparently is a total crap shoot?
not at all.
AJ Burnett was a quality start machine for 2 ~ 3 months this season. He was not masterful nor was he bad in those starts.
Toward the end of the season, yea, he was severely hit or miss.
I have no problem with the 5 year deal. His first year was very good and given that more than a few of his career averages were up this year…he could even out next year.
If the second year in NY he gets more comfortable (maybe this whole playoff thing in NY messed with him?…seems to affect many people) maybe he reverts a bit back to form?
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
he threw 60 pitches
Maybe Thursday for an inning, but you risk injuries when you do that to starters.
by PortlandYankee on Nov 3, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think I want to see AJ in relief
Thanks for the job you did AJ this season but you will no longer be needed in 2009.
Game 6 No.
….I ain’t gonna mention the worst case…but all hands are on deck thereafter.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Burnette or Gaudin
I have to agree with Joe’s strategy of separating CC from Lee, which meant going with CC in Game 4. I think that Gaudin has shown himself to be a capable journeyman pitcher. He is not junk, but he has not been tested under extreme pressure. We should pray that AP has one more masterpiece, even on short rest. It would be fitting for the best post-season start-finish combination (Andy & Mo) to finish the Series. I would not have been afraid to pitch Gaudin, but Joe’s decision was reasonable given AJ’s prior history on short rest. Gaudin can still do long relief if needed. The fact that the game is in Yankee Stadium is a factor in Andy’s favor. Remember that the Phils have a real problem with Game 7 if it gets that far. Also, both Posada and Matsui have been strong against Pedro consistently. Pray that this continues — the battle is not man’s but God’s.
I also liked the strategy of separating C.C. from Lee but there was never any question of that. The issue was whether to use A.J. yesterday on short rest or hold him back for game 6 in the event they lost. I myself called for A.J. to start yesterday so I cannot second guess Joe’s decision. The fear was Andy on short rest in game six. Let’s hope Joe guessed right.
I agree 100% Ed
Absolutely the right move to use Burnett in game 5. Gaudin hasn’t pitched in a month. And people expect him to go out in a World Series game against the best lineup in baseball (aside from the Yankees) and pitch well. Granted, Burnett sucked last night. But I still wouldn’t have done anything different. The Yankees have 3 reliable pitchers this year. And thats CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, and Andy Pettitte. And I think that any one of them, even on short rest, would be a better option than anyone else. If the Yankees blow this series because those guys ran out of gas? Well then, that simply means that the one weakness that the Yankees had heading into the postseason was exploited. The one big question mark the Yankees had was their rotation, and that it isn’t all that deep. It may or may not work out, but I wouldn’t do anything different. And I still think they will pull it off.
One win away!!!!!!
pitch gaudin and have burnett in game 6?
HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Yes we lost and yes we are upset. But like all Champs we will bounce back."
Osi umenyiora
they always gotta try to 'fit in' don't they...
true story…after talking about how good Carlos Delgado was for them last year…then refering to the fact that Albert Pujols by far is better…the Met fan responded with Pujols sucks!.
They simply live in an altered sense of reality.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AJ could have...
blown the game on normal rest too. The fact that he was pitching on three days rest didnt suddenly alter his control. We have been seeing a hot and cold pitcher all year with this guy. Who else would we have started in that situation?
We just need to get to pedro early tomorrow and we’ll be ok. Im confident that Andy has more left in the tank than pedro at this point.
that's what I figured...
yet, I know this person well enough to know that’s not the case.
The best two word to explain it are…“met fan”.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 3, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions

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