Why Aren't We Looking at Jon Garland?
by jscape2000 on Nov 22, 2009 3:00 PM EST
in Analysis
52 comments
I'm campaigning for Jon Garland as 3rd starter (or 4th if Andy re-signs).
With the Diamondbacks and Dodgers, the righty threw 204 innings. He doesn't strike anybody out, but he doesn't walk anybody either.
The 30 year old signed last season for one year and $7M with a $10M option. I see no reason he'd expect significantly more than that for 2010. He'd be a respectable 3rd starter and easy to deal if all the other pitchers come on strong and push him out of the rotation.
He's a Type B free agent, so while the Dodgers would receive a sandwich round pick, the Yankees would not sacrafice a draft pick.
If you're worried about guaranteeing spots in the rotation to both Joba and Phil, and you're not excited by a 4 or 5 year commitment to John Lackey, or if you're skeptical about Rich Harden and Ben Sheet, then Jon Garland is your man.
0 recs |
52 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
nice short and sweet post
great job again jscape. i agree, but id rather have sheets but thats just me
I like sheets too
He is an ace when healthy.
by yankeechaser on Nov 22, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Sheets is shit ...
He possesses a lightning bolt for an arm, unfortunately for him it’s constantly shorting out. Hasn’t the experience of Pavano and Wright demonstrated that we really need to stay away from medical insecurities?
Our system is deep with arms. With CC, AJ, Andy to anchor the staff, we’ve got plenty of opptys to see what our kids can do—rather than seeking to patch a hole with a guys who are three games over .500 and consistently on the DL. In case you were wondering, Sheets has been on the DL every year since 2003. In 03-04 it was a bulging disk; 05 inner ear issues; 06 2x due to shoulder stiffness and elbow tendenitis; 07 hamstring; 08 arm tear and missed the playoffs; 09 elbow.
If anyone is wearing a billboard-sized sign that read: STAY AWAY. STAY FAR, FAR AWAY!
It’s Ben Sheets.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Not a bad idea
But I don’t agree with it. He gives you innings, he has pretty good control. He gives up a ton of hits though. His BAA is usually very high. Also, the last time he pitched in the American League his ERA was almost 5, and his BAA was over .300. And that was pitching for the Angels, in a pitchers ballpark. He gives up a LOT of home runs as well. Yankee Stadium will only hurt him with that.
He’s not a bad pitcher. But I’ve never liked him all that much and I don’t think the Yankees need him. Too many HR. Too many hits. Too high of an ERA. Whip is too high as well. That doesn’t seem like a 3rd or even a 4th starter to me (again, I’ve never liked him). All of that is going to lead to having a major headache every time I have to watch him pitch. Should the Yankees consider it? Sure. But I’d rather have them go after Sheets or Harden, because if those guys are healthy they are much more effective and much more trusting.
how much more could they get hurt?
I mean, all we heard was “injury prone” when talking about A.J. Burnett, and he didn’t miss a start. If they’re healthy going into the season, then it’s possible to keep them healthy, as long as they’re handled right and well conditioned.
And if we do get Sheets/Harden and they DO get hurt? Well then, if the Yankees want to look at Garland after that, it shouldn’t take much to deal for him.
eh...
he’s an average pitcher at best. I think both Hughes and Joba could be above average. Not really much of a reason to get him.
He was average in the NL West
which tends to translate to below average in the AL East.
I think that I’d like it if the Yankees took a flier or two on a guy like Garland, Duchscherer, Sheets, or Harden, but don’t expect too much and don’t give up too much.
This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons.
I think Garland could be average in the AL East.
You’re exactly right about not giving up too much. I like Lackey, but he’s a Type A so he’d cost a draft pick, and if the Yanks, Mets, Angels and whomever else are all going to bid on him I think the price will be too rich in years and dollars.
Any of the guys you listed should be at or around average, and who ever comes for on a one year deal, sign him. And if Hughes and Joba are above average, push him out of the rotation.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Jon Garland?
Why aren’t we looking at Jon Garland? Because he is absolutely TERRIBLE, that’s why. A 5.61 ERA w/a 1.65 WHIP in the NL last year, and a 1.51 WHIP the year before. He was a good pitcher four years ago. Now? No thank you.
Facts are fun
2009: Diamondbacks/Dodgers, 4.01 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, .302 BABIP, WAR 2.4 (computes to a $10.6M value).
His last 5 years of FIP: 4.48, 4.76, 4.36, 4.35, 4.14
He had a terrible year in 2008 fueled by career worst 3.15 BABIP. I’m not saying the Yanks are a defensive juggernaut (bitch), but last season they were at least mediocre.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Stephen Colbert would disagree....
This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons.
by Lord Duggan on Nov 22, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather look
at Bedard, Harden or Sheets first.
But if those fall through, yea, Garland would be better than Sergio Mitre.
"It ain't over till its over"---
As long as we know what we’re getting from him, I don’t see any problems with singing him to a deal.
Can’t totally compare Harden/Sheets with Garland. Of course Harden/Sheets have better stuff, but they won’t be giving you Garland’s innings. (By the way, out of Harden/Sheets, I prefer Harden’s stuff, but would sign Sheets since I THINK he would be more likely to stay healthy).
However, surely, Garland beats the hell out of our Gaudin/Aceves/Mitre option. For a one year deal, I am content with having someone there to compete with Hughes/Joba for their spots. Complacency didn’t work well for us last time, and I would much prefer if they fought for and win their spots.
I hope we aren't looking at Jon Garland...
because he sucks and has no possibility of being anything above average. One of my least favorite pitchers in all of baseball.
Just out of curiosity...
but am I the only one who does not want to see Joba or Hughes anywhere but in the Bullpen next year?
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Nov 22, 2009 11:05 PM EST reply actions
yes
They both have the ability to become above average, even great, pitchers. If they both come through with good years, and we have Pettitte back, we would have the best pitching staff 1-5 in baseball by far.
That’s too many ifs for my comfort.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Mine as well.
For all we know, Wang could come back and have an 06-07 caliber year again. Despite Hughes’ somewhat terrible postseason bullpen work, keeping him in the bullpen is one of the reasons the Yankees made it to the Postseason in the first place. If we go into 2010 with a bullpen of Hughes, Joba, Marte (who’s seemed to come alive in the postseason), Aceves and the decent Robertson & Coke, I think the Yankees have one of the best bullpens in the majors.
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Nov 23, 2009 3:04 AM EST up reply actions
At least one of the two should be in the rotation. If the other guy pitches well out of the pen give him a spot start or two. Give him the chance to earn his spot.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
I disagree
I think we need to differentiate between earning a spot and keeping a spot.
As I see it, the Yankees will probably (or hopefully) open the 2010 season with three rotation spots set – Sabathia, Burnett, and Pettitte – which leaves the other two up for grabs by a group of pitchers that includes Joba, Hughes, Chad Gaudin, Ian Kennedy, Chien-Ming Wang, etc.).
Now, good teams should be able to do two things: give themselves some depth, some options, for the rotation in the upcoming season, and then rank those options properly. If everything goes according to plan, the Yankees would carry no less than eight starting pitchers into the 2010 season who, if nothing else, belong on a Major League roster, which is more than you can say about Sergio Mitre. That’s good.
Looking at it this way, though, Joba and Hughes are clearly the fourth and fifth best options, at least as far as Opening Day 2010 is concerned. The Yankees would be foolish to make them compete with lesser talented players. At the same time, however, if June rolls around and neither of them are progressing, that’s when you re-evalute.
Joba and Hughes need to get another shot
its not over for them as starters and the Yanks could use some youth in the rotation.
Pettite’s not gonna be around forever. You never know if Burnett’s gonna finish a season.
Gotta see what we have with these 2. Let the bullpen work be left to the Marte’s, Robertson’s, Aceves’, Coke and even Bruney’s of the world.
This guys were starters their whole careers. One and 1/2 seasons is not enough to call them failures as starters just yet.
BOTH have to earn their spots in the rotation. But BOTH should be in the rotation and starters.
NO waffling with them either. Just leave them. If they’re on a limit…take them out of their role and put them in the other one…but don’t go back and forth.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Garland
Garland is the kind of guy you go after in July if your pitchers are injured or struggling. In my opinion anyway its better to aim high at the beginning of the season rather than just settle for filling one of your spots with someone you know will be mediocre.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Nov 22, 2009 11:30 PM EST reply actions
I don’t agree at all. We have four pitchers competing for #4 and 5 in the rotation including Acevas, Gaudin, Hughes and Joba. All four are young and talented. Garland based on the last few years experience would get eaten alive in the East.
If we have to get a pitcher we could get Lackey and make pitching our strength going into next year. or go cheap with sheets, etc
Thank you but no more mediocre free agency signings. Either sign a stud or bottom troll.
No way, he'd be a waste of money. No more over the hill Free agents!
With Detroit dealing I rather see a mega trade for Edwin Jackson, Cabrera, Miguel, and Granderson, Curtis.Detroit gets ride almost $25 million in payroll.
The Yankees can put Cabrera in left field (trade speed for the 40+ home runs and 320 average). Let them have Phil Hughes, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera. The Yankees have Robertson, Marte,Coke, Joba and up to 5 very strong relievers in the system.
Edwin Jackson has a real shot at being a Cy Young winner. Forget also doing anything but running up the cost of the Cuban pitcher.
Damon is going to leave. He’ll settle for two years but wants more money. He’s way out of line with the market. Granderson will cost 1/2 the money over the next three years and Yankee Stadium and the line up should add 20 points and give him a shot at 40 home runs. Keep Matsui for another year – please! He’ll do fine!
I doubt...
the Tigers would do that trade. Sure, they would dump salary, but they will want to get more back in terms of talent than that trade.
are you serious?
how the hell do we pull of this ‘trade’?
Dowbrowski isn’t a complete fool either. He’s not gonna trade those guys for Shelley Duncan’s corpse and Cody Ranson’s jock.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
No f*ing way.
We’d definitely be overpaying for for Edwin Jackson, I just don’t see him putting up first half stats again, and many writers believe we’re in tune to see more of 2nd half Edwin Jackson next year. Hell, if he really is that good, how come we haven’t seen it all these years?
There are a couple of things wrong with that trade.
a) If the Tigers were trying to trim payroll, why would they trade Ganderson? It’s already been well documented he is playing at a very economical salary, and his value greatly exceeds his cost.
b) I don’t see them trading Miguel Cabrera AND Edwin Jackson without asking for Montero. As a matter of fact, I don’t see anyone trading for any player of prominence with the Yankees without asking for Montero. And if we WERE trading Montero, I’d much rather we go out and get a sure thing.
c) While more defense never hurts, I’d much rather have Damon’s fielding and his bat in LF compared to Miguel Cabrera, his 20M+ salary and his inability to play the field.
Sorry, ain’t happening.
by Vancouverguy on Nov 23, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ah yes.
I think it’s a credit to the readers of PA that it took until Nov 23 for a trade proposal like this.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
lol.
are we getting spoiled?
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Someone explain
The deal with Sheets. The guy is an ace when healthy. I thought he had signed with Texas last year, but was injured and never pitched. He’s a free agent now? Is he actually available or is this just conjecture?
Are we settling for mediocrity?
You already know what you’re gonna get from him. For one year, signing both Sheets and Bedard would probably cost about the same in guaranteed money as it would cost to take on Jon Garland. And he’s going to ask for a minimum of three years.
you don't know that...
Bedard and SHeets for all we know could be asking for 2 years $30 mill.
If there’s one thing, Garland is more proven than Mitre. If anything, you can sign Garland if all else fails and throw him in AAA.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Could be so
but really they’re not going to get that much. I could see it go $5-7m w/ incentives plus a vesting player option of $12-$14m for 2011.
You can’t just toss Garland in AAA if he’s not willing to accept the assignment or recovering from injury. The Player’s Association will most certainly file for grievance in that instance.
by Scooby Snacks on Nov 23, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
true.
Garland’s a vet and not going to come cheap.
But hey, we’re the champs. He wants to win, maybe he signs up?
Far fetched…tho I really don’t want Garland anyway. He’s kind of a POS.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
Shrugs
Joel Pineiro had a few good stints with Mariners, and then a few crappy ones before going to STL and posted some decent numbers in ’09.
2009 15 12 3.49 214 IP 218 IP 11 HR’s 27 BB 105 SO 1.14 WHIP
Randy Wolfe also put up some decent numbers for LAD in ’09 after some mediocre in PHI
2009 11 7 3.23 214 IP 178 IP 24 HR’s 58 BB 160 SO 1.10 WHIP
I like a few options with some of the repaired pitchers out there also. They shouldn’t give anything more than a one or two year laden with incentives like they did with Andy. Maybe throw in a team option as well.
I would much rather see them test a few of these guys out than going after another 7 year contract. Tough decisions to make on Phil H though. If it was me, I would move Joba to the pen, and keep Phil as the 7th/8th inning setup. Make sure their confidence is bolstered and they get more ML innings before moving them around. I think it’s counter productive to set rules and move them back and forth.
Just my $0.02 worth and I’m sure it’s not even worth that to the Yanks.
The Pettitte point is a good one.
It’s easy for Cashman to say, this is the kind of deal Pettitte took and it earned him a ring. If you want be a part of a championship team, these are the terms.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Marquis
I’m not advocating getting a starting pitcher via free-agency because I believe we have enough talent at the MLB level and in the high-minors to answer whatever question arises. However, if I were out shopping for a middling pitcher ala, Garland, Pineiro, Sheets, I’d be looking at Jason Marquis. He’s won double digit games 6 years running, doesn’t miss starts and has succeeded in difficult parks.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Jon Garland
He may be a reasonable option, especially if neither Halliday nor Lackey come on board. I still think Joba is best suited to the bullpen and that Phil Hughes should start in the long run. CC—AJ—Garland—Hughes—Gaudin is reasonable if Andy retires, with Kennedy in the wings. Another lefty starter would be desirable (if only Igawa would finally find that form he had in Boston as an emergency reliever!).
Granderson?
I could see getting Granderson even though he was weak against lefties. But Melky would then move to LF, where he is outstanding on defense. We could stock the Tiger bullpen with Melancon and Edwar Ramirez and perhaps trade an infield prospect or a catcher. If necessary, we might take a big risk on Dontrelle and his contract rather than Cabrera in order to lower the prospect price for Granderson and Jackson.
Dontrelle is done. His fastball is only clocking at 88mph now, and his command on his other pitches is shot. He’s 27 and has worse stuff than Pettitte at 37.
Teach Dontrelle to hit!
Like Rick Ankiel! Doesn’t he kinda have Granderson’s build? I’ll bet he could put up some good power numbers and steals.
Especially once the first couple cycles of HGH kick in…
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
Dontrelle actually was a pretty good hitter from what I've heard on him.
He’s actually 6"4 230, pretty big dude.
He should probably look at pulling an Ankiel. He’s shot as a pitcher. Every time I see him pitch in Detroit, I just turn off the TV cuz its kind of tough to watch him struggle.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 24, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
Related FanPosts on Pinstripe Alley
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
