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Molina vs. Posada, round two

An(other) attempt to settle the Burnett/Molina/Posada soap opera follows. I wanted to calculate and assign a run value to Molina's catching and compare it to Posada's batting.

(This whole article assumes Burnett's superior pitching to Molina is real and not just chance. Tom Tango, who is on par with Bill James as far as SABRmetricians go, says there's something to it.)

A.J. Burnett's OPS Against this year with -

Jorge Posada: .775

Jose Molina: .658

For a difference of .117

With the assistance of THT's OPS Run graph, a team OPS of .650 roughly equals 650 runs/year, which (dividing by 162 games) averages to 4/game. A team OPS of .770 roughly equals 810 runs/year, or 5/game. So holding a team to a .650 OPS in a single game causes them to score about four runs. A .770 OPS leads to about five runs.

Since starters rarely pitch complete games, I had to figure out what percentage of the full game Burnett usually threw.

He averaged 27 batters faced (PA)/game this year (895 PA divided by 33 starts). The AL average for a full game was 38.55 PA/game.

27/38.55 = .7, meaning Burnett pitched for an average of 70% of the total game.

Star-divide

Holding hitters to the lower OPS of .650 (Burnett's OPS Against with Molina catching) - which means about four runs/game, I multiplied four runs by .7 (70%), which equals 2.8.

2.8 is the number of runs Burnett should average in a normal start with Molina catching (only counting the opponent's hitting, not their baserunning).

The higher OPS of .770 (Burnett's OPS Against with Posada catching) leads to five runs/game. That times .7 equals 3.5, which is the number of runs Burnett should average in a normal start with Posada catching (again, without accounting for baserunning).

That is a difference of .7 runs/game in favor of Jose Molina.

Now to their hitting

The good news is that Molina will only get 2-3 PA in game 2. As soon as Burnett is out, Posada will replace him in the lineup. So considering Molina will hit ninth, and he'll only go as long as Burnett (about 6-7 innings), he'll have a minimal offensive impact on the game.

Posada's 2009 OPS: .885

Molina's: .560, for a difference of .325.

Going back to the OPS Run graph, we know that a .100 difference in OPS is equal to about 235 runs/season (for a whole team). Since we're comparing individual players, the calculations must continue.

Since .100 OPS = 235 runs, and the difference between Molina and Posada is .325, we do this: 235 x 3.25 = 764 runs.

So a lineup of Posadas will score about 764 runs/season more than a lineup of Molinas. Then we divide 764 by 162 games = 4.7 runs/game (a lineup of Posadas will score 4.7 runs/game more than a lineup of Molinas). There are nine hitters in a game, so we divide 4.7 by 9 = .52 runs per game per hitter. The average hitter got 4.3 PA/game this season (38.55 PA/9 hitters), but since Posada will hit fifth or sixth, let's say he'll get an even four PA/game. .52 runs/game divided by 4 PA = .13 runs/PA. So Posada is worth .13 runs per PA more than Molina. That sounds about right.

If Molina gets 2 PA instead of Posada, it costs the Yankees .26 runs (3 PA costs them .39 runs), so the .7 runs better Burnett is with Molina more than offsets his lower offensive production. In fact, it would appear to give the Yankees anywhere from a .31 to a .44 run advantage. So the Yankees are about a third to a half a run better with Molina catching Burnett than Posada (if Molina only gets 2-3 PA in the game). Molina would have to get more than five PA (.7 divided by .13) for him to become less valuable than Posada. And all this doesn't even account for Molina's superior defense, both at blocking pitches in the dirt and at throwing out baserunners, which I'll try to quantify now:

Back to defense

Posada caught 785 innings this year. Molina caught 356.2 (almost half). So I'll equalize by multiplying Molina's stats by (785/356.2 =) 2.2 -

Posada had 7 errors. Molina had the equivalent of 2.2. Posada had 8 passed balls. Molina had 6.6. Posada had 41 wild pitches. Molina had 33. Both had the same caught stealing rate of 28%. And since it's nearly impossible to quantify the 'intimidation factor' of Molina's better arm (that prevents attempted steals), I won't account for that aspect.

So anyway, per 9 innings:

Errors - Posada .78, Molina .24

Passed balls - Posada .89, Molina .73

Wild pitches - Posada .47, Molina .39

Which means Posada allowed 2.14 'extra bases'/game. Molina allowed 1.36 'extra bases'/game (which is better).

Therefore, Posada allowed .78 'extra bases'/game more than Molina. How much is that worth in runs?

Each extra base is worth about .24 runs; .24 x .78 = .19. .19 x (Molina's time catching the game, 70%) .7 = .13. So .13 + (Molina's game-calling ability of) .7  = .83 runs, minus .13 runs/per PA Molina gets - does that make sense?

In other words, Molina's defense is worth +.13 runs/game, his 'Burnett game-calling' is worth +.7 runs/game, but his batting is worth negative .13 runs/PA (all relative to Posada).

So Molina's catching/defense is worth almost a full run more than Posada, but every PA he gets drops his value (though it would take more than six to make Posada the better choice):

Molina_vs 

(But again, we must remember this all assumes Burnett's superior pitching with Molina is real and more than just chance.)

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what a collossal waste of time.

this is baseball – a TEAM game.
and, as Yogi once said: “90% of the game is half mental.”
 besides, the Bombers have enuff bats in their lineup w/o Jorge.

by NYer in a strange land on Oct 9, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This is a game of pitching now; it's October.

I’d take Molina, we’re not facing an impossible pitcher.

Great, interesting analysis, man.

"I'll probably go get lifted right now with Greg. Hey, and come back tomorrow and try to get another win."

-Renaldo

by solanumbrella on Oct 9, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As some who loves stats...

thats a sweet analysis… but i would have to agree that this game is 100% AJ and his mentality.

Also, another thing that would hurt Posada’s case even further is if you used his postseason OPS over his 09 season OPS….

by GriffMan on Oct 9, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What?

You have way too much time on your hands. What you can’t figure in (maybe you did…I couldn’t get myself to read the whole thing) is this. All you have is averages. Unfortunately, this game is played, one game at a time. This could be a game that either of them could go 4 for 4 and then your averages are worthless.

Unfortunately, we don’t know which one could have the 4 for 4 game, so we don’t know which one to play. Posada had two passed balls the other night. Who could have guessed that or better yet, could you have predicted it with your math? No.

Stop thinking so much, get a job and try to contribute to society in a more productive way. In the mean time I will root for whoever catches tonight. Personally, I like Jorge and wish he was behind the plate tonight, but I don’t have the math (nor will I ever have it) to back up my preference. Sorry!

by Tickle Monster on Oct 9, 2009 1:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Shut up.

"I'll probably go get lifted right now with Greg. Hey, and come back tomorrow and try to get another win."

-Renaldo

by solanumbrella on Oct 9, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're a fucking dick

this is a Yankees blog and Travis G came up with some excellent analysis about the Yankees

Stop thinking so much, get a job and try to contribute to society in a more productive way
is that a joke? who are you to talk?

by Brian5517209 on Oct 9, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I DON"T UNDERSTAND SOMETHING

THEREFORE IT IS STUPID

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Oct 9, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

With the exception of

the comments about too much time and getting a job, he has a fair point in saying that past performance doesn’t always predict future performance, as A-Rod demonstrated in Game 1.

What’s with Yankee fans attacking each other here?

by phonty on Oct 9, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this is not typical

just when someone tries to insult someone on how much they think or how they aren’t being a productive member of society then its not all good

by Brian5517209 on Oct 9, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Stop thinking so much"

ha! that’s all i need to know about you. thanks!

by Travis G on Oct 9, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw a clip on ESPN with Molina

Who was clearly upset that he felt that Posada wasn’t supporting him and felt that he himself is very supportive of the team. Posada better get used to not catching all the time, his days behind the dish are slowly coming to an end. He better come to a reckoning with that premise. Because no Yankee will be allowed to play just for the sake of loyalty. That is the way of the world, that is the way of sports, that is the way of the Yankees. As long as Posada can hit, play another position and backup catch he can stay in pinstripes for a few years. But if he thinks that catcher’s position is his until HE decides it isn’t is just folly and hubris on his part. So far this year the biggest “ME” guy has NOT been A-Rod, it has been Jorge.

by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Oct 9, 2009 1:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

with Francisco Cervelli getting better, Jorge should get used to seeing more time at DH in 2010. Not to get too forward looking, but egos should be checked at the door. Worked for Arod

by coops2001 on Oct 9, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A good analysis that confirmed common sense...

Playing the odds, the drop in Burnett’s pitching more than offsets any added offense from Jorge.

by PortlandYankee on Oct 9, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great work Travis

As GriffMan points out, I wonder how your study would change if you replaced regular season average pitching with postseason league pitching.

Posada’s numbers are down in the postseason, but I’d expect Jose’s to drop even farther. To get a legit sample size you’d probably have to look at multiple seasons of the entire league.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Oct 9, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I vote

whatever catcher helps Burnett pitch better. In the post season, it’s generally the pitching that is the difference maker. Which is what made the late 90s Yankees so devastating in the post season.

I also think our bullpen can be scarey good. With Joba and Hughes setting up Mo, and with Ace, Bruney, Coke and Robertson, could be a lockdown for the other team. Wow. On paper, looks awesome and cuts the game down to 5-6 innings for the opposing hitters. Hopefully it will be as good on the mound as it is on paper.

by coops2001 on Oct 9, 2009 2:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Stats are great.

But you can’t forget the only thing that matters. You pick the catcher that the pitcher is most comfortable with. And, Molina is that catcher.

I agree, Jorge is solid,and probably an overall better catcher/batter/leader. But AJ likes Molina.

Case closed.

by GrandEd on Oct 9, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lets not forget

The angels won a world series with Jose Molina as their starting catcher. Yes i know his brother Bengie played alot also but Jose was the primary catcher so its not like we are putting a scrub back there

by ae2cdk on Oct 9, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except that no, they didn't.

Jose had a total of 81 regular season PAs in 2002, and only 2 in the playoffs.

by New York Sports Jerk on Oct 9, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok my bad

I remember him playing more but my memroy isnt what it used to be.

by ae2cdk on Oct 9, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Travis: People that say you have to much time on your hands are dumb.

This type of analysis is fascinating to read. Whether it plays out like it does on paper in the real world, I guess we’ll have to wait and see. Thanks for taking the time to crunch the numbers.

by Ooofa on Oct 9, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If you find ...

Travis’s analysis fascinating, you like Travis need to get laid…

Here is my analysis leading to this stunning conclusion:

-Guy living in mom’s basement scans directv lineup and can find no acceptable porn.
—Calls handful of friends before deciding he doesn’t want to play RISK …
—With no Yankee game in sight, decides to set the baseball blogging world on its ear by doing a statistical analysis comparing Jorge Posada
-one of the 5 greatest Yankee catchers of all time with Jose Molina—of the catching Molinas.
—After completing the arduous task, said guy discovers Love Boat reruns on channel 348 and settles in for a night of bliss … Meanwhile, playing in the background is Atlanta Rhythm Section’s “Imaginary Lover.”
—Said guy breathes a contented breath before nodding off to dancing sugar-plum fairies and Jorge Posada clubbing Jose Molina to death during a bullpen session…

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Oct 9, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

What’s with the vitriol on this thread? It’s just an analysis for those who are interested and a discussion of the analysis and data. If it’s not your cup of tea, fine, but no need to attack or insult fellow Yankee fans.

by phonty on Oct 9, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Word and if you're gonna attack

at least try and be funny. Th whole bloggers are losers who sit in a basement meme is pretty played out. I still don’t understand why half is written in strikethrough.

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Oct 9, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not Travis' biggest fan

Frankly I think that Travis and Ed both picking other teams to win the East a disgrace. I also disagree with him on quite a few topics. BUT, Travis does one hell of a job and obviously dedicated a lot of time and effort into this blog so I appreciate him. Of course, if CrazyYankeeChick ever started her own fan blog I would bounce from here like an a AJ curveball right past Jorge.

by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Oct 9, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ronster22 is so incredibly witty...

It’s my guess that his frustration with this posting amounts to his inability to understand that mathematics, time and creativity required for such analysis.

This is what intelligent people do in the real world, whether it’s analyzing baseball or stock market trends or whatever.

I just thought it was fascinating to put the game in the context of numbers.

OH, and Ronster22—GO FUCK YOURSELF.

by Ooofa on Oct 9, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow ...

Apparently you’ve been looking into your magic 8 ball… Truth is I’ve never been any good at math …

I appreciate you telling me what intelligent people do in the real world—especially when it comes to analyzing baseball—a game I played. Have you?

To be quite honest, I enjoy the stats of baseball. I enjoy analysis—when it’s warranted. In this case (comparing Posada with Molina) it wasn’t. This is kinda’ like trying to analyze why the cute blond in economics doesn’t want to go out with you, but rather your friend. You can’t really analyze chemistry. That was my point.

But what’s with the obscenity? I would have expected a bit more creativity from someone of your caliber.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Oct 12, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

why was picking against the Yankees a disgrace?

i embrace objective analysis. i know that most fan blogs don’t exactly employ that philosophy, but i think the PA guys do their best here.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 9, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the ol'

‘you use too many numbers and therefore must live in your mom’s basement argument’. good one!

i thought we were past that as baseball fans, and i definitely thought you were better than that.

i write these articles bc i treat this blog like a job (and actually enjoy it, even if you dont believe me).

gotta go, Mom’s calling me!

by Travis G on Oct 9, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever

I love stats and I love articles like these. I really enjoy reading them and I appreciate that you take the time to write them.

As for the catcher debate, I’m okay with Molina catching AJ. I do feel better about AJ’s pitching, and I think he does too, which is very important.

by Rumplestiltskin02 on Oct 9, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

catcher

lets stop the bull right now and stick that graff where the sun dont shine posada is the best catcher of the two molina cant hit for s——t . what is this bull letting releif pitchers pitch to two batters and take them out. joe g is going to blow this thing yet

by rays place on Oct 12, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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