The poor call that shouldn't have mattered
by Travis G on Oct 30, 2009 9:32 PM EDT
in Analysis
52 comments
Since the double play was turned anyway, Shane Victorino's take-out slide in the eighth inning will likely be forgotten as the years pass. So before that happens, I want to show that he should've been called out regardless of whether Chase Utley was safe at first.
There are several rules on the matter:
7.08 A runner is out when - (a)(1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged...
7.09 (d) Any... runner who has just been put out hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate;
7.09 (e) If... a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with... a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate.
Victorino broke all three. Here's the video: look how Victorino rolled into Jeter's legs. It's one thing to slide into the fielder or throw your arms out toward him, but to roll into his legs? That is wrong, both legally and morally. If y'all remember, Victorino got into some hot water for interfering on a run-down in the NLCS. The umpires need to call the runner out more often on those wild take-out slides or someone is going to get seriously hurt.
A couple photos to drive home the point:
Was it dirty? You decide.
[Photo links deserve a hat tip.]
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Nothing dirty
Good hard slide
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Oct 30, 2009 10:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I will agree.....
a good hard slide…..If he stays within at least one county from the bag…..He was at least one state away from second base. They SHOULD have called him “OUT”…..
Rick
Goooooooooooo MSU BOBCATs
MONTANA STATE UNIVERSITY
Almost 60 years as a YANKEE Fan
by ramyankee on Oct 31, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
good catch Travis. I never saw that. Usually umps don’t call stuff like that. It’s like that “neighborhood” call on DPs. Still, that is a dirty play. Plain and simple. He’s 5 feet away from the base, and he rolls into Jeter. Can’t do that.
by nyyrocks29 on Oct 30, 2009 10:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank You
Thank you for finally bringing this up. Buck Showalter was the only one who even mentioned it, but it was very brief. How did nobody in the media even pick up on this. The rule of thumb is that you have to be able to reach out and touch the base, and there’s no way victorino could do that there.
by chai1108 on Oct 30, 2009 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dirty enough
No, it’s not Shelley Duncan-Spring Training dirty (which was justified after what happened to Cervelli), but there’s no place for any kind of cheap shot in a World Series game.
I don’t think the ump can or necessarily should call him out on that specific one, but a warning is definitely in order, and I wouldn’t be suprised if Rollins doesn’t take a hard one in the shins in the next game or two.
I told you we would beat Georgia!! Now, as for those 9 wins in '09......
I got bored and made a blog!! SCS
by VolBrian on Oct 30, 2009 10:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow, i didn't notice that. nice!
" You F@#$ed Up, You Trusted Us!"
by GTWYankee on Oct 30, 2009 10:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Please stop
That is just hard baseball. No one on the Yankees cried about it so neither should we.
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Oct 30, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
there is no way he can reach the bag.
" You F@#$ed Up, You Trusted Us!"
by GTWYankee on Oct 30, 2009 10:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
bc DJ didn't get hurt
and they got the DP.
i’m sorry, but you don’t roll into the SS’s legs.
by Travis G on Oct 31, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
especially in the World Series. I understand players are supposed to give everything they got, but do it the right way, not the cheap way…..
I told you we would beat Georgia!! Now, as for those 9 wins in '09......
I got bored and made a blog!! SCS
by VolBrian on Oct 31, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Oct 31, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good catch
i didn’t notice this at first. i don’t think it was a dirty play on Victorino’s part, just a hard slide, but he was out of the base path (out) and was intentionally hindering Jeter’s throw (trail runner, Utley, out). so the umpires got the DP call right, but for the wrong reason. i’m not gonna cry about it, we got the call and nobody got hurt on the play.
"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down so all my critics can kiss my a**"- Bob Knight
"All the arguing in the world can't change the decision of the umpire."- Lou Gehrig. Got that Aybar?
by JumpinJackFlash on Oct 30, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i dont think it was too dirty, but it was still against the rules.
" You F@#$ed Up, You Trusted Us!"
by GTWYankee on Oct 30, 2009 11:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
actually, i saw the video thing, dirtier than i thought.
" You F@#$ed Up, You Trusted Us!"
by GTWYankee on Oct 30, 2009 11:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
i see things in video better.
" You F@#$ed Up, You Trusted Us!"
by GTWYankee on Oct 30, 2009 11:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I saw that too. Not dirty, but could have been called. Thanks for bringing that up…almost forgot about the 1056 time the umps reminded us they are on the field this post season. If it were a Yankee doing that, I’d have been proud. Phillies are almost likeable the way they approach a game. Off topic: Alot of baseball left. Let’s here it for Yankee baseball giving us the maximum number of baseball games to watch possible. As a fan of baseball that should not go unmentioned.
by dorsal on Oct 30, 2009 11:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't matter anyways but that was interesting.
" You F@#$ed Up, You Trusted Us!"
by GTWYankee on Oct 30, 2009 11:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Call this dirty and keep on
posting with this point of view and…
you turn us into nothing more than RevHalo and Angels fans.
PLEASE don’t start this sh-t. We’re from NY. Better yet — da Bronx.
Can it. Now. We’re better than that.
by rosebud on Oct 31, 2009 2:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nothing dirty here
just hard nosed baseball
2 teams wanna win it all…
When I look at Boris Diaw, I think of Beethoven and the age of the romantics... -The Great Bill Walton
by shaqfor3 on Oct 31, 2009 2:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's the World Series
Unless he runs at second base with a Mike Myers-style kitchen knife it isn’t dirty.
by GMan83201 on Oct 31, 2009 5:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Rub is a 35 year old Jeter getting it done.
Victorino’s slide was outside the written rules but well inside how the game is called today.
An amazing effort by The Captain.
"Here, if you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake, and I have a straw. There it is, that's a straw, you see? You watching?. And my straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake... I... drink... your... milkshake!"-Daniel Plainview
by yankee come lately on Oct 31, 2009 7:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe that's why they called Utley out?
Looking at the replay (and of course McCarver was too busy crying in Bucks arms to notice…) I didn’t get a view of an ump doing anything.
Maybe this WAS the call on the field?
It wasn’t a dirty slide, it also wasn’t a legal slide.
Either way..whether the umps made the call in the rulebook or they just did whatever the hell they did on the field (they HAVE been making up their own rules somewhat…) it was a double play…threat over.
That’s all.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 31, 2009 7:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't
give the umps in this postseason that much credit.
Still, the out call on Utley at first does even things out, doesn’t it?
by django48 on Oct 31, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not "dirty"
however, yes, I said it when the play happened. Same thing happened with the Cardinals and Matt Holliday.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Oct 31, 2009 8:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mountain, meet molehill.
Until they start enforcing the rule preventing the catcher from blocking the plate, I’m going to turn the other cheek to rough double plays. We always want our guy to give it a hard slide.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Oct 31, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nothing more than good,hardnosed baseball
stop whining
by NYer in a strange land on Oct 31, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
C'mon, Travis
That’s a huge spot in the World Series. No, technically, the slide isn’t legal because he couldn’t reach the base. But, I think any Yankee player in the same spot does the same thing. It’s just baseball. It’s a good, hard slide.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 31, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it was a good hard slide
but it was against the rules of baseball. Plain and simple. I don’t think that Victorino was trying to play dirty. But like you said, it isn’t a legal slide. It was definitely hard played baseball and I dont think Victorino was trying to be dirty (like Shelly Duncan was). But it wasn’t legal, and he rolled into Jeter too, which breaks the other rule (honestly, the roll into Jeter bothers me more than the slide)
Half the people on here are saying that it was just a good hard slide. But would ANYBODY be saying that if it ended up costing the Yankees the DP, and then maybe the game? If the Yankees lost this game, this one would be a huge story, and I’m guessing that most Yankees fans would be changing their mind about this one.
by nyyrocks29 on Oct 31, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not ok.
Anybody trying to say its ok now, imagine what would have happened if they called Utley safe because of that play. Than it wouldn’t have been ok. The bottom line is it was an illegal move, dirty or not, that could have cost us the game and/or our Captain.
by Gelatin on Oct 31, 2009 10:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
What about...
But would ANYBODY be saying that if it ended up costing the Yankees the DP, and then maybe the game?
Or, if the roll into DJ’s legs had hurt his knee or ankle and put him out for the series or worse?
Yeah, y’all are right, it’s the World Series and you gotta do what you gotta do, but don’t go all out at somebody’s legs like that. It’s not like the slide carried him into Jeter, he basically started sliding right when he got to DJ.
And, yes again, I know I sound like a whiner, but what else are we gonna talk about on the off day? ;-)
I told you we would beat Georgia!! Now, as for those 9 wins in '09......
I got bored and made a blog!! SCS
by VolBrian on Oct 31, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
can you tell me when a Yankee last rolled into the SS/2B? that’s my problem, that it could have seriously hurt Jeter.
by Travis G on Oct 31, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rolled...no
but I know there were numerous slides by A-Rod where he was at least 3ft outside 2nd and trampled Aybar/Kendrick.
Give and you get.
The rules in any sports playoffs are stretched a bit. Everyone’s playing hard.
I don’t like the roll either. Victorino has proven he’s a bit of an a-hole.
But if A-Rod did it..or maybe more comparable..if Melky did it to Chase Utley, you wouldn’t really care would you?
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually i would
i dont recall those Arod slides, but i do remember some very hard slides by him, and i’m actually surprised he hasn’t been beaned for it. however, he never rolled into anyone’s legs.
by Travis G on Oct 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its illegal and dirty.
but fox would never say that, not just because they are idiots who dont know that rule but the hate the yankees and would never want to satisfiy us fans. i hate buck and his buttbuddy mcaver
"Yes we lost and yes we are upset. But like all Champs we will bounce back."
Osi umenyiora
by donnybaseball23 on Oct 31, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Victorino
NO question it should be called a double play and it was a dirty slide. Victorino was 5 feet away and not even close to touching second. If a runner cant reach the bag when he slides into a fielder its clear cut.
I have to laugh however how this play is being considered more important that the 7 th inning mistakes which had far more potential impact. The yankees should have had runners on first and second with one out. Gee – two measily hitters up next are Tex and Alex. Over 200 RBI’s between them. That is the mistake of the game – not inning 8 .
We need instant replay – two chances(red flags) per team and we need it in 2010. I never thought I would say it but the umpiring mistakes need to be stopped and its the only solution.
by ghostwalker on Oct 31, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I believe the bases would have been loaded with one out on the 7th inning play :-)
by d_c_guy on Oct 31, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Illegal. YES! Dirty? Nah.
I think it’s quite alright to take out the player turning the DP (assuming there is no intent to injure). BUT, you should do that while making an EFFORT TO GET TO 2ND!
In this play Utley is doing nothing but sliding at DJ. No effort to get to 2nd is made.
The play is illegal, but not dirty….he doesn’t try to hurt DJ.
by Ragnar808 on Oct 31, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OOPS! meant victorino sliding….not Utley.
by Ragnar808 on Oct 31, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A dirty slide is
intent to injure. I don’t think Shane’s intent is to injure here, but try to break up a double-play by sliding near Jeter. I agree he should have been called out & this play should get more coverage. You’re taught to break up a double play by trying to slide at/near the player turning it, so he has to avoid you a little bit in order to turn it. If he dove directly at his knees or ankles, that’s a different story altogether.
by BriGuy27 on Oct 31, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I just looked at the video
and it looks a lot worse than those pictures…it does look like he was diving directly at the ankles. Of course he’s not trying to injure Jeter, but he should watch it when he slides. Maybe throw him inside 1st inning? Send a message?
by BriGuy27 on Oct 31, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
take out
take em out next chance or joba or o.j. can buzz em high and tight payback is a bitch
BIG YANKEE FAN,FROM MASS. HAVE TO PUT UP WIYH ALL THESE HOLE SOX FANS
by JEETS on Oct 31, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
its not dirty, just illegal
I don’t think this is dirty, its just that he wasn’t even close to the base, so if they yankees didn’t get the dp, interference should have been called.
by chai1108 on Oct 31, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
next
next time on a double play when he is comming in to 2nd on double play throw gight at his head he will take it down a notch,after all he was going after jeet
BIG YANKEE FAN,FROM MASS. HAVE TO PUT UP WIYH ALL THESE HOLE SOX FANS
by JEETS on Oct 31, 2009 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
dirty?
I don’t think it was dirty just a good hard slide. I think it was an illegal play and should have been ruled a double play because he was out of the base path, but I think he did it not to hurt Jeter but because he’s a gamer and wants to win. Not dirty just illegal, there is a difference.
by dyanks10 on Oct 31, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree
that Victorino probably does not intend to injure DJ, but i believe he does want to scare DJ enough to think he’s going to hurt him (in order to mess up his throw). and if he does hurt him, so be it!
again, this is not Victorino’s first time pushing the envelope in terms of baserunning.
but the final fact is this: why make it against the rules if it’s not going to be called?
by Travis G on Oct 31, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to further this point
i wouldn’t call Victorino’s slide ‘malicious’, but i would call it ‘reckless’ or ‘careless’.
by Travis G on Nov 1, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to everyone
please watch the video before commenting. the pics don’t do it justice.
by Travis G on Oct 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, the pictures dont do it.
" You F@#$ed Up, You Trusted Us!"
by GTWYankee on Oct 31, 2009 5:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed it
the first time I watched the highlight and was surprised it was and has never been mentioned until this blog post by Travis.
I agree with Travis that if the rule is there and they break the rule, the penalty should be applied. I sure hope Girardi would have gone out and argued if they didn’t get the DP with Victorino’s slide.
And for those like Rosebud, we’re not really bitching and moaning about it. I think Travis is just seeing if anyone else saw the same thing and thought the same thing. In the end, it didn’t matter because it was followed by another blown call at 1st.
Personally, though, it was a blatant, illegal, and possibly dirty (we don’t know Victorino’s intent) play. It’s possible MLB will fine him for it after the series, as they do review all plays and they might well penalize him for that or at least question his intent.
Keep playing hard and let’s take this home to the Bronx. I’ll give up game 5 to Cliff Lee if necessary to win the Series in the new stadium. Hopefully, though, our offense will come alive and we won’t need games 6 and 7 at all.
by phonty on Oct 31, 2009 6:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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