We're Not Worthy
by jscape2000 on Oct 18, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
in News
42 comments
This Yankee pitching staff has been incredible.
Ponder if you will:
10 runs in 51 IP.
I think the story of the night is the bullet the Yankees dodged by winning when they did. Joe G's willingness to use Joba for less than an inning of work is starting to bother me.
Check out what the world has to say about the Yankees:
The Times compares JHJ to Juis Sojo:
"I came up with the Orioles, and I saw those great Yankee teams," Hairston said. "They obviously had superstars, but the Scott Brosiuses, the Jim Leyritzes, the Luis Sojos, those are all guys who made positive contributions."
They also gave some attention to Joe G.'s bullpen management:
After lifting Burnett, Manager Joe Girardi churned through Phil Coke and Joba Chamberlain in the seventh, Phil Hughes in the eighth, and then Rivera, Aceves, Damaso Marte and Dave Robertson. Only Chad Gaudin remained; even Nick Swisher had been taken out.
The NYPost paid attention to the bullpen's tightwire act.
Mariano Rivera threw 2 1/3 scoreless innings and Joba Chamberlain left the bases loaded in the seventh. David Robertson worked around a two-out double by Jeff Mathis in the 12th and Robinson Cano's second error on Erick Aybar's leadoff grounder in the 13th.
Our buddies at LoHud divide last night's heroes into 3 categories: Arod, JHJ and the bullpen. I find this quote from Joe G. telling:
"I knew I had Gaudin for 75 pitches. You’re thinking that’s four or five innings. In your mind you can’t necessarily say I think this game is going to go 19 innings."
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I dunno if I said it on PSA
..or real life.
But I said JHJ was one of the most underrated trades in YEARS for the Yankees. The guy just does everything (hence…Do what Jerry Hairston Do!)
Nothing flashy, just does his job when asked. That base hit goes right down with all the hits like Luis Sojo, Luis Polonia and all the other utility/bench guys that have came up clutch for the Yanks…and the guys they have missed for all these non-WS years.
..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...
...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.
---Carl
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 18, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I grew up near Cincinnati
so I’m also a Reds fan. I know most Yankee fans had hardly heard of him, but I was psyched when I heard the Yanks got Hairston. He can play every position except pitcher, and can even catch in an emergency. That is a valuable player to have on your team.
by Wraithpk on Oct 18, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We knew about him --
He was a pest against us when he was an Oriole.
by Solomon96 on Oct 18, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the great Yankee teams seem to have that super utility guy
capable of coming into the game and doing something very right at just the right time.
Takes a special kind of player to be able to do that.
by pinstriper on Oct 18, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FreeBradshaw, you're being silly now
Brian Cashman can’t make a good trade. He has all this money at his disposal, so he throws it around to sign a bunch of overpaid stars. What was that? Swish for Betemit? Jerry? Cashman can actually make a smart trade? Hah, you’re just a blinkered Yankees fan!
/rant
by pkyankeefan on Oct 18, 2009 11:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Wilson Betemit for Nick Swisher
another crappy trade. Fire Cashman!
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 18, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Girardi doesn't overmanage
the bullpen
he almost reminded me of stump merril yesterday
by holycowboy on Oct 18, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
/sarcasm right?
Cuz uhh…..its been working.
..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...
...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.
---Carl
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 18, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't fault Girardi
as least I’m not with the way he’s managing the pen. It’s the end result of a win that counts for me.
by Scooby Snacks on Oct 18, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Girardi has been a bit too quick with the hook
But when you have 6 good relief pitchers (probably at least 4 of them are better than anybody the Angels have), it’s not really a problem.
by 3460kuri on Oct 18, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Girardi said Gaudin could throw 75 pitches.
Yeah, so can Hughes and Chamberlain.
Whatever. A win’s a win and in the playoffs that’s all that matters.
by Yanxsta on Oct 18, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hughes and Joba can...
They couldn’t last night.
..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...
...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.
---Carl
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 18, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A false choice
Nobody thinks Joba or Hughes should have thrown 75 pitches. However if Joba had thrown another inning and Aceves had been allowed to pitch more instead of going to Marte, the point where you need Gaudin (your worst non-Marte pithcer) would have been later.
When you are tied, you have to a) keep the game tied and b) plan for what happens if it stays tied). Girardi clearly did what he thought was necessary to do a. at the expense of b. I think Girardi made mistakes and could have achieved a without risking b as much and was too trigger happy. It worked out though.
by stusviews on Oct 18, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saying that they both have started in major league games before.
by Yanxsta on Oct 18, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but not within the last month (or really since August...)
for Joba, and not since May for Hughes.
They CAN, but this isn’t MLB 09. They aint gonna come out and throw 75 pitches just like ‘that’.
..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...
...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.
---Carl
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 18, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad you said that.
Saved me the trouble.
by Peter Lacock on Oct 18, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get this
Bostondirectdogs.com says about the Game 1: “Globetrotters Grab Game 1 as the Quest for a Store-Bought Championship Continues for New York”
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/
That’s rich, Boston claiming we buying a championship. I don’t want to got through all the trades (e.g., Arod) and farm system players (e.g., Hughes) that are playing a part of the Yankees sucess, but would love to point out the obvious that the BRS payroll of $122M is the fourth highest in baseball and does not include the $51M payment to Tokyo for DiceK.
by coops2001 on Oct 18, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Please
If the Sox could spend 500 million on a team and win WS after WS every Sox fan in the universe would be fine with that
by HappyLuckyGoldenDragonNumber1! on Oct 18, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen management IS a problem
Just because you manage to get OUT of trouble doesn’t mean you didn’t get INTO trouble in the first place.
The reason that A-Rod homer wasn’t a walkoff was we had to go to Aceves in the 11th, instead of Joba for 1 in the 7th and the 8th, Hughes in the 9th (still tied) and Mo for 10 and 11. Aceves is not a shutdown reliever…he’s a long man who is going to give up runs. He can’t be placed in those situations.
Same thing with Game 2 of the LDS…you have to give your three best (Joba, Hughes, Mo) at least an inning each. Coke and Marte are specialists, I get that. But the others are supposed to be lockdown relievers, and we have to trust them to get multiple outs.
Not sure where Robertson fits in to all of this, besides being our extra-innings lucky charm. Is Joe afraid to use him because of his elbow? Sure looked like it last night.
by PortlandYankee on Oct 18, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Of course, we also have to be better with RISP
That would make this all academic. Hopefully some of the underachieving bats start to wake up (Johnny is looking good…some opposite field junk, but that last hit was a pull and that’s his bread and butter).
by PortlandYankee on Oct 18, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's BS
Here we again predicting the future and talking like it’s certain. How do you know the next pitch Joba (or anyone) threw wouldn’t have been hit out? You don’t.
What bothers me is that people talk like they know what to do better than the pro’s.
Like Girardi said, you can’t think the game is going to go 19 innings. That’s exactly right and you also can’t think the game is going to go even 10 innings. It’s supposed to end in 9 and that’s how you play it until it doesn’t. Then you play it like every inning is the last inning because it could be and eventually it will be. Especially when you’re at home and can walk off. The other team can’t do that. Holding anything back ‘just in case’ is stupid.
Girardi is the best I have ever seen at getting the most out of his bullpen. He did it last year, keeping the team in the race until the end, with no SP’s after Mussina and he’d did it this year when many thought the pen was a weakness. In my opinion, those that question him are just complainers that will whine no matter what.
by Peter Lacock on Oct 18, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+infinity
aside from when he brings marte in, i cringe. but i have absolutely no issue with how joe has been managing the bullpen.
but it seems like no matter what, joe can’t seem to win with the fans. there are more than a few that are ready to crucify him and i don’t really understand it. he does whatever means necessary to win the game and if that means yanking joba after an out or two, so be it. i’m certainly not going to argue with the results.
Thank God for making us Yankees.
by noonoo on Oct 18, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1,0000
took the words out of my mouth, while I don’t always agree with some of the moves he makes I really like Joe as the manager. I don’t get why some people think he is so terrible.
by Danielle I on Oct 18, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying hold anything back
But at the same time, you don’t buy a six pack, drink one beer, and then throw the rest out, which is what we’re doing with Joba.
If we only think he’s worth one out, why is the organization bothering to waste so much time and energy on him? If we don’t think he’s worth an inning, he shouldn’t be on the roster. Same with Hughes. Does Joe just not trust them? Is that why he let a 40 yo pitch 7 outs in 45 degree weather?
So far we’ve been lucky thanks to sloppy baserunning and fielding. But at some point, one of these teams is going to get out of their own way and the “burn through everyone” strategy won’t work in a close game.
by PortlandYankee on Oct 18, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"A 40 yo"
Mo isn’t just some 40 year old. He’s the greatest closer in the history of the game and the greatest pitcher in the history of the postseason. Mo only threw 24 pitches, he throws more than that in nearly all of his 4 out saves.
Never question bringing Mo in.
by GMan83201 on Oct 19, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
c'mon guys!
Joe has made good decision after good decision this year. Starting with putting jete in the leadoff spot. Remember they are still trying to limit joba’s innings this year and also build his confidence back up. Joe has done a heck of a job, and if he left someone in too long than you bitch about that. When we win the ws, are you still going to question the poor man at every level? He’s not perfect, but you want Torres wonderful bullpen management back? I don’t think so. We won, enough said! Thank you Joe! And thank you Yankees.
by swanny4eva on Oct 18, 2009 3:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I thought the 'Joba Bullpen/Starter?' debate was over --
He is, without doubt, a different pitcher when he comes out of the ’pen, and a potential BUILDING BLOCK if everyone stops trying to push him to start.
If everyone is right in saying that “Mariano Rivera was the most important piece of the Dynasty puzzle,” then why not develop Joba as our next closer — he looks like a duck, and he quacks like a duck.
Build a cement block in the 8th and 9th, and you SHORTEN THE GAME FOR YOUR STARTER. You now have a more confident starter who knows that all he needs to do is hand a lead over to the pen and, chances are, he’ll earn a W.
You also have a more confident lineup who will use that same rationale — handing a lead over to the bullpen — to help them get through moments of poor hitting, team slumps, etc.
by Solomon96 on Oct 18, 2009 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
except the fact that
everyone who says mariano is the most important part of the dynasty teams is dead wrong and grossly misinformed.
mariano does not have games to save if guys like pettitte, key, el duque, clemens, wells, do not give the yanks quality starts.
who do you think is the most important component of this playoff run? without a-rod, you still have an elite offense all around. without mo, you still have a solid relief core to close. but without CC, AJ gets bumped up to game 1 starter and who’s going to start game 3?
starting pitching wins playoff games. period.
by tombradylikesdudes on Oct 18, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mo has indeed been the most important part.
That doesn’t mean he’s the only part! Of course good starting pitching (actually good pitching across the board) is important, as is solid defense and clutch hitting. Still, the single most important piece of the whole puzzle has been Mo.
What caused the Twins to get swept? Joe Nathan couldn’t hold their lead. How did the Red Sox get eliminated from the ALDS? Papelbon had a meltdown. What enabled the Yankees to win last night? Fuentes blew the save in the 9th.
Let’s go further back. The Yankees would have run the 2001 World Series if Mo didn’t blow the save in game 7, he had the lead in the 9th inning and couldn’t hold it. The 2000 Yankees DID win the World Series because Mo WAS able to save the final game even though the Mets were threatening.
Saying Mo is the most important piece doesn’t invalidate anything else, it’s all true, but if it all had to come down to just one thing, Mo is the man.
by pinstriper on Oct 18, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't hand over a lead to the pen without the starter.
..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...
...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.
---Carl
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 18, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly right
As good as Mo is, he’s just a role player, not a main man. He came up as a starter but wasn’t good enough. Maybe Joba won’t be good enough either but you have to find out before you reduce him to just another role player. If he can’t cut it as a starter I have doubts he’ll ever come close to Mo. Joba is too emotional. Mo is unflappable which is more important than his cutter.
by Peter Lacock on Oct 18, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's unfair to expect ANY other pitcher to be just like Mo.
I do have a problem, though, with the mentality of some folks that a pitcher becomes a reliever because he’s not good enough to be a starter. At one time in baseball history, that may have been true… but with the emergence of the closer, it’s not true any longer. The skill set and even more importantly, psychological makeup of starters and closers are distinctly different. They’re both essential and saying one is for people who couldn’t make it as the other is demeaning. The fact is, the vast majority of starters couldn’t handle being a closer.
Let’s just agree that some pitchers are suited to start, and some others are suited to be closers. They’re two different positions.
by pinstriper on Oct 18, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There Isn't A Most Important Component
People are always looking to answer who or what is the most important part of this TEAM and what you forget is that this is a TEAM which is comprised of different parts that work together for 1 common goal and that is to win. You need the pitchers/relief pitchers just as much as need the hitters/pinch runners. That is the concept of a TEAM..period!
by Mondoas on Oct 18, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Right, one guy can't do it by himself
Some of the best ‘teams’ have had zero stars. Just a bunch of good players, no one stands out.
by Peter Lacock on Oct 18, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The gritty underdog blue collar red sux
Complain bout payroll and store bought championships lol
As Ocho Cinco says Child pleeeeeeeEeze!
by MUSKRAT on Oct 18, 2009 6:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I still think ...
Hughes has been hurt….
Ever since Joe stopped putting him in … I think he has been hurt, but they re not letting on to it. He hasn’t really been as effective as he was prior to his sudden non-appearing!
Thoughts?
by NY on Oct 18, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i dont think so
I think they were just saving his arm for the playoff and he’s been very effective except for the twin game. And I think that game was just rust. Last night he was getting up into the mid 90’s and had great accuracy. They wouldn’t risk the future of a promising starter for a set up role that joba certainly could fill.
by swanny4eva on Oct 18, 2009 7:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Considering he was UNHITTABLE
before that…I’d just say he’s returning to Earth.
..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...
...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.
---Carl
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 18, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of this talk about who's the reason this team's the best....
is totally out of line with WHY this team is the best. It’s because this is a team.
A team is an organization that works together, where one plays his best and overcomes the shortcomings of the others on the team. When there’s a void, someone fills in, and the result is success.
This team wouldn’t be where it is without The Sandman. It wouldn’t be here without the starters, without Jete, without ARod, and the list goes on. When one has an off night, another stands up.
As for this second guessing Girardi on the bullpen. Don’t forget how Joe 1 screwed the pen with his overmanaging and then look at how Joe 2 is handling it. We have success, we didn’t before.
by GrandEd on Oct 19, 2009 9:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Girardi Overmanaging
Agree with the original post. Girardi’s use of Joba has been problematic. Tonight ….. Girardi completely overmanged by pulling Pettitte prematrurely. Right now it looks like he finally has gotten burned. Let’s hope the Yanks can rally and thus obviate Girardi’s blunder.
by Jeff I on Oct 19, 2009 7:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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