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And just like that, Mo surpasses Papelbon

Now we all know Mo is better than Paps, but you'd sometimes hear Boston fans praise Papelbon's spotless postseason ERA. After blowing up in yesterday's season-ending loss to Anaheim, his ERA jumped to 1.00, which is now higher than Rivera's miniscule .74 ERA.

Papelbon is still an excellent closer, but have we seen the last of him in a Boston uniform? He always says the wrong thing, will reach free agency in two years, has declined the past couple seasons, and a guy who seems at least as good (Daniel Bard) is waiting in the wings.

I didn't want to take away from the series-clinching win last night, so today seems apropos to rub it into those (formerly) trash-talking Red Sox fans (I'm thinking mainly of my cousin).

What a lovely WPA graph:

291011102_angels_redsox_144538775_lbig_blog_medium

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Papelbon vs. Mo

When was this ever actually a legitimate question?

by Ed Valentine on Oct 12, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

according to Boston fans...

the Red Sox have owned Rivera since the dawn of time.

I guess that’s what one Jason Bay HR in May does for that pathetic fanbase….

..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...

...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.

---Carl

by FreeBradshaw on Oct 12, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Addendum

I guess, by that I meant since when did Mo have to surpass Papelbon? The idiot from Boston has never been better than Rivera.

by Ed Valentine on Oct 12, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions  

An ERA with a number in front of the decimal?

Has Rivera ever had that for a career playoff ERA?

by GMan83201 on Oct 12, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I had always said

When PapSmear has been closing for a decade plus like Mo has, then try a comparison. Mo’s sample size is just a little bit bigger.

"I don't want one of those guys who'll drive in two but let in three every game." Casey Stengel

by tnredneckyankeesfan on Oct 12, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

I got two words for everyone

Sample Size.

Papelbon has 7 postseason saves in 21 IP. Mariano has 35(!) postseason saves in 121 IP. 35! If Papelbon ever makes it to 35, then I’ll compare Mo’s ERA to his :) I have no doubt Mo will demolish him there too.

Sorry for getting all emotional. God, I love Mo.

by pkyankeefan on Oct 12, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

it's like comparing Kobe

to Jordan, or Marvin Harrison to Jerry Rice.

it’s not fair to compare MJ, Rice, and Mo to mere mortals. it’s nothing against those guys, who like Papelbon are all great, but none of them come close to what that trio did.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 12, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Meh.

I wouldn’t put Papelbon up there with Kobe.

by pkyankeefan on Oct 12, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm not the best analogy-maker

but you understand the spirit of what i was trying to say. the gap between the best (Mo) and 2nd best (Papelbon) is huge.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 12, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh.

Sorry. You’re right, of course. I just hate Papelbon too much to give him any sort of credit. Your analogy was spot on :)

by pkyankeefan on Oct 13, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

No Sox fan

who knows anything about baseball would ever say that Papelbon is close to Rivera. That said, the Sox likely will not trade him-simply because closers are not generally trade targets and because he is under his team’s control for 2 more years at a pretty low salary. He will then walk and the Sox will take the picks.

by Buzzy on Oct 12, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions  

"When you go to other parks, they hang banners for the wild-card or Eastern Division or Western Division champions. Around here, they don't hang anything unless its for being world champions."

-Chili Davis

by nck228 on Oct 12, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions  

ESPN.com is promoting a rumor.

I was reading on ESPN.com that, according to the Insider section rumors, PapSmear may be traded.

Don’t let the door slap you in the ass on the way out!

by GrandEd on Oct 12, 2009 4:54 PM EDT reply actions  

that rumor makes no sense.

Papelbon was not great this year, but he still has a cheap contract, and is still among the top 3 closers in the AL. Plus, they would not get a lot for him, and he is signed for 2 more years. Unless some team overvalues him, there is no way the Sox would trade him.

by Buzzy on Oct 12, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what makes these rumours interesting, actually.

The fact that his contract isn’t exactly cheap. He made $6.25 mn this year in arbitration, and should probably make more the next two years. I know K-Rod and Nathan make $10 mn, but then good closers like Feuntes ($5 mn) make less than that. So then he kind of becomes comparable to any other closer on the market.

by pkyankeefan on Oct 13, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Good" closer?

Brian Fuentes? Come on, man. His ERA this year was barely below 4, and his FIP was nearly 4.5. He has officially shown that the save is more often than not a stupid stat. The fact that he could go to the Angels and get over 40 saves goes to show yet again that K-Rod is probably the most overrated player in all of baesball.

Also, his overall value this year has been $1.6 million, so paying him $5 million a year is quite ridiculous. I know the topic isn’t Brian Fuentes, but every time he is mentioned among the “good” closers of the league because he has 40 saves I get a little upset.

by Leviticus6688 on Oct 13, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right

Feuntes doesn’t belong in this discussion. He has 10 more ERs than Papelbon. I guess it really depends on how much Papelbon can get in arbitration this year. If it’s closer to 10 than 6, and the Red Sox really think Bard can be that good, they might have a case to trade him.

by pkyankeefan on Oct 13, 2009 4:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

MLB Networks take on Papelbum

One thing I love about the MLB network is the banter after a game…If its a Yankee win, you never get enough…even though you saw every play in the game.

Their take on Pap was that he is…well…hard headed (i.e., stupid) about his fast ball. Even though he can throw a slider to keep hitters off timing the heat, he would not throw it – presumably because he wants to show up hitters – instead of pitching smart to get outs.
angels were sitting on his fast ball and even Aybar could hit a straight ball when he knows its coming – even at 97 or whatever.
Angels can thank Abreu for teaching them about being patient.

We did better 'cause we got better...Yogi

by mickey07 on Oct 12, 2009 9:25 PM EDT reply actions  

i watch a lol or Papelcrap...

and I’ve never seen a pitcher make hitter look so foolish on his breaking stuff.

He’s his own worst enemy..and I love it.

..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...

...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.

---Carl

by FreeBradshaw on Oct 12, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

He Didnt Want Him On The Team To Begin With

I Angels can thank Xavier Nady for this defeat of the Sox. You say why is that? If Nady was never a Yank, Abreu would’ve never went to LA. Abreu is the key to their season, and his familiarity with the Sox really helped bring down Papelfag and the Sox.

by YankeesJets on Oct 13, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Papelbon

has never been and most likely will never be as good as Rivera, and truthfully no one ever will be I think. Papelbon has a tendency to fall in love with his fastball and I don’t care how hard a guy throws he has to mix in a slider or split at times. Paps has both. I’m a Yanks fan but as someone who follows baseball I’ve seen Paps fall in love with the heater. You see Rivera has a four-seamer and uses it appropriately, but I’d say he throws 80 percent cutters. Rivera has the good fortune of possessing a pitch that can be thrown over and over and over. It does not matter if the hitter is looking for it. His chances of hitting it well are almost zilch. The one he threw to Mauer to end the 8th the other night was just NASTY. Mauer is great hitter but that pitched veered from middle in to on the hands in a fraction of a second. There’s just nothing you can do. Mo has lost some MPH over the years but the success of that pitch is not really contingent on velocity as much as movement. Plus his fastball, though maxing out maybe at 93-94, has good life and is deceptively fast. Let’s not forget that in his year as set-up man for Wetteland he threw almsot exclusively four-seamers. He did not have the cutter. Many hitters said that the ball got on them remarkably fast and they just could not get around quick enough. Mark McGwire said he was “unfair” and Tom Kelly said he should be “outlawed”. PLUS Mo has impeccable control and gets many called strike threes too. The pitch to Kubel the other night for strike three was about as perfect a pitch as you’ll see. With location like that you don’t even have to throw a 91-93 MPH cutter, but he does. You hear it year after year; Rivera’s getting old and there are better closers around. You no what; There aren’t. He’s still the best.

by chambliss76 on Oct 13, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions  

nice

i also remember a Twins manager (not sure if it was Kelly or Gardenhire) said Mo belongs in a higher league than MLB.

by Travis G on Oct 13, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

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