Report: Pettitte rejects Yankees' offer

by NumberSeven on Jan 6, 2009 11:06 AM EST Comment 26 comments

Andy Pettitte may not be returning to the New York Yankees after all.

The left-handed starter has rejected the Yankees' one-year, $10 million offer, The New York Times reported, citing a person with knowledge of the negotiations.

***

The door does not appear closed on Pettitte returning to New York. The New York Daily News reported that according to a person close to the situation, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman has "had dialogue" in recent days with Pettitte's agents, Randy and Alan Hendricks.

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Last month, Pettitte told The Times that he wanted to return to the Yankees but was leaving the matter to his agents. Randy Hendricks did not respond to an e-mail message on Monday, The Times reported.

This has gone on way too long in my opinion. Yes, he's a free agent, but come on already. When deciding his value, all factors need to be taken into consideration: age, health, stats from last year- notwithstanding the complete support he got from the Yankees last year in the wake of the Mitchell mess.

I think $10M is a reasonable offer. If he really wants to be Yankee, it's time to take the matter out of the agents' hands and get this thing done.

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Pettitte...

…Don’t go away mad, just go away.

" Well isn't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere! "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 6, 2009 11:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

here's the

Times story

by Travis G on Jan 6, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

must be nice to be able to turn away 10 Mill

no other team will give him that much
he or his agents are being unreasonable i think

maybe throw in some incentives to bump it up a bit

by bkcowboy on Jan 6, 2009 3:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Don't let the door hit you in the ass!

The Yankees overpaid for your sorry ass the day before your name appeared in the Mitchell Report. You knew you were involved, and I suspect you feared if you waited a day the Yankees would pull the offer. They should have. You sucked in 2008, and have just shown everyone who stood by you your true colors … You’re a greedy, cheatin’ bastard. Nice knowing you.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jan 6, 2009 5:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

that's harsh

I understand why you feel that way. But it’s real negotiations for real money.

Give it time.

If I's known I was going to live so long, I'd have taken better care of myself. Casey

by Cbeck3 on Jan 6, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Careful

You’ll end up eating your words like many of us did when we cursed ARod when he opted out last year, only to welcome him back at least lukewarmly.

I like Andy a lot, and I think we ought to cut a deal with him—$10 million guaranteed, plus a $500,000 bonus for pitching 200+ innings over at least 31 starts, plus $500,000 if we make the playoffs, plus $1 million if we make the World Series.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 6, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think so ...

Offering someone who has a questionable record, age and diminishing skills $10m is more than fair. He turned it down—which is his right. The Yankees apparently are ready to move on—nuff said.

Here’s what I would have offered him … $12million—but only 8 is guaranteed. The remaining 4 can be had by reaching incentives—200ip, WHIP under 1.30, more innings pitched than hits allowed, 15 victories, an all-star appearance, a world series… That kinda thing.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jan 7, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

he could have followed the example and learned the lesson of a fella who used to wear #7. how about forgoing so much money and just being a good teammate? you would be in the inaugural year of New Yankee stadium, you’d have a chance at winning a world series and, oh yeah, you could have fun getting paid for playing a damn game.

" Well isn't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere! "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 7, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And ...

he’d essentially cement his legacy. I mean really? How much money does a guy need?

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jan 8, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

HUGHES IS OUR MAN

We HAVE to have a place for our considerable minor-league pitching talent to end up. Pettitte would be a solid number 5 but we HAVE to give Phil Hughes the continued opportunity to develop in the majors. The 5 spot is the place to do it.

Munson15

by Munson15 on Jan 6, 2009 7:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Joba's going to be the #5

I wish people would stop saying the Yanks are searching for their #5 starter. We have him. His name is Justin “Joba” Chamberlain, and he’s a beast, but he can only pitch 130-140 innings this year, so we’re going to use him in the spot that gets the fewest starts (the #5).

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jan 6, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Funny

This point has been rationally discussed on this site before. Hughes cannot be the 5 unless Joba is the 4. Joba cannot be the 4 because of a considerable innings cap. Hughes will likely be an excellent pitcher moving forward, but his is very very young (younger than nearly all other prospects that are touted as future top of the rotation starters). In these regards it is a mistake to not sign Pettite. What SeniorSwanky says make complete sense. The idea that the Yankees would spend 1/2 billion on FAs to fix the problems with the team and not shell out relative chump change to insure the needed pitching depth is baffling. Just wait to AJ’s first DL stint and see if you don’t miss Andy.

by Buzzy on Jan 6, 2009 8:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

2 things

1) i quess they “ment” huges would be the 5th best starter in the rotation, since he would be in the 4 slot.

2) You never know, maybe the Yankees have some other mediocre pitcher waiting, and the Yankes wanted to see what andy was gonna do b4 they did anything,

"Hey Derek do you actually drive the Edge?","I don't drive that piece of crap!"

by Da Shiz on Jan 6, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If somebody gets injured,

and you have hughes in your starting rotation, it’ll be so much more stressful than letting him improve his change-up in the minors and come up when he’s ready, or replace anybody who goes down on the DL. If we get Pettitte, than we have a very, very good rotation, with very good replacements ready if anybody goes down.

by moose35 on Jan 7, 2009 4:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

Hughes has nothing to prove in the minors. His growth will stagnate in AAA. I’m not saying he has to be a starter (although I certainly think he should be given every opportunity to fill the roll), but he needs to work under the watchful eye of Dave Eiland. Eiland proved last season what he can do, and I believe is existing relationship with Hughes is paramount to taking the next step.

It’s time to cut Andy free. The Yankees made him a more than reasonable offer and he said no. Time to move on.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jan 7, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't disagree more

I love Hughes as much as the next guy. But here’s the thing – he missed three months of the season in 2007 and another three months in 2008. That cannot be ignored as much we we’d like to think he’ll overcome it.

Missing that much time on the mound has stunted his growth – not pitching at Scranton and continuing to work on his game like command, location, and his secondary pitches (curve, change, and new cutter). He can’t continue to progress if he’s sitting on the DL nursing his latest freak injury.

And frankly, Hughes was terrible even when he was healthy last year. He didn’t win a single game.

Hughes is only 22 years old. You can probably count the number of 22 year old starters in the AL on one hand because it takes youngsters awhile to learn how to pitch. He has more than enough time to continue to get better in the minors and prove he can stay healthy for a full season.

They need Pettitte back a lot more than you think. Given Burnett’s long injury history, Joba’s innings cap, and Wang coming off his own injury – the Yanks need someone who will throw 200 IP at the back end of that rotation.

Hughes isn’t that guy just yet and I don’t trust that he will stay healthy until he proves it.

Think of it this way, if they don’t resign Pettitte – they are just a Burnett DL stint away from a rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy. A once very intimidating rotation doesn’t look nearly as intimidating.

Resigning Pettitte gives them very valuable insurance when someone goes down (which is going to happen, I’ll guarantee you that) and someone who is a lot more productive than Hughes right now.

Hughes will get opportunities to pitch in the bigs next season regardless. Most teams use at least seven or eight starting pitchers to get through that 162 game grind.

With Pettitte, they’d have the best rotation in MLB. Go for the jugular.

by anaconda on Jan 7, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so how much

would you offer Andy?

welcome back, btw.

The Jayfiss Report ...one fan's rants

by NumberSeven on Jan 7, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Anaconda

is right on the $. BTW-Andy’s skill’s have not so much diminished (just look at his peripheral pitching numbers and ignore stupid things like WL and somewhat stupid things like ERA*). Lastly, Derek Lowe turned down 3/39 from the Mets. Tell me why Lowe is worth that if andy is not worth one year and a bit more than 10Mil?

*[please sto with the “Pettite had a bad year” last year. His FIP was basically the same as Burnett’s who you just paid a crap load to, and much better than his 07]

by Buzzy on Jan 7, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

first of all

lowe’s crazy to turn that money down. second- lowe’s been much healthier than andy. that’s why he would fetch a little more on the open market.

The Jayfiss Report ...one fan's rants

by NumberSeven on Jan 7, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He's not worth $10 million.

I agree with much of what you said, although I still think Eiland is the guy to unlock Hughes’s potential. Statistically speaking Andy didn’t completely suck last season, but because of the Mitchell Report and the fact that he was awol the second half of 2008 when the Yankees needed him to step up didn’t exactly help his case.

Signing him might not be a bad move, but at his age, recent history, and diminishing skill, I certainly wouldn’t up the ante. We’re talking #5 starter.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jan 7, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Burnett isn't worth $82M by a long shot

But the Yanks gave it to him anyways. There’s a big difference between fair market money and Yankee money.

Most of the time, the Yankees can’t be the measuring stick to determine a player’s value because Yankee money is almost always considerably more and they’ve proved that time and time again with the contracts of A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, Mo, Sabathia, Giambi, Burnett, and Teixeira.

My point is simply that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to penny-pinch now when you have a golden opportunity to assemble the best rotation in baseball and to give yourself an edge against the Rays and Red Sox in the toughest division in baseball.

Also, Pettitte is not a fifth starter. Sure, he’d be a fourth or fifth starter on this staff – but how many teams in MLB would Pettitte be as low as a fourth starter?

Very few.

He wouldn’t be a fifth starter on any other team. He’d be a #3 starter on roughly 75% of the other teams not necessarily because of his W-L record or ERA from last year – but because he’s nearly a lock to throw 200 IP.

Pettitte was one of just 15 starting pitchers in the AL last season who threw 200 IP. That’s an average of just one per team. Those guys don’t grow on trees. He’s accomplished that feat 10 times in 14 seasons – including each of his last four seasons.

Pettitte also had an ailing shoulder during most of the second half last year. He could have rested a start or two but he took one for the team after Wang and Joba went down and kept pitching.

Here’s my cause for concern, I also have a feeling that the decision for the last slot is either going to be Pettitte or Hughes.

Pettitte is getting special treatment because he’s Pettitte. I think if they don’t work something out – Cashman is more than inclined to go with the kids.

I don’t see that as a wise decision given what we saw from the kids a season ago and the fact that this team plays in the toughest division in MLB.

For the record, my advocation for resigning Pettitte has nothing to do with all that “true Yankee” or nostalgia garbage. I just strongly feel that his signing gives them a significant edge over their divisional rivals and it doesn’t make much sense to squawk over a couple of million.

Offer him $12M and see what happens. If he doesn’t return, I’ll bet there will come a time next season when Yankee fans will wish they had Pettitte to fall back on when a guy like Burnett or whomever pulls a groin and lands on the DL.

by anaconda on Jan 8, 2009 3:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I hear you ...

I agree, but I wouldn’t up the ante. I think you need to watch some of Andy’s starts last season. I watched him in Baltimore, in September, and he had nothing left. Which is the real Andy, that one, or the one that pitched so well through May?

Blame it on a shoulder, but at his age and the fact that he’s not on the juice, he truly may have nothing left.

Could we see a Mussina-like renaissance? I doubt it. Andy doesn’t have an assortment of off-speed stuff. He relies on pitching in. I honestly don’t believe he has the gas left in the tank to be successful in any longer. $10 million because of the “nostalgia garbage” … but that’s it—Yankee money or not.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jan 8, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Paycut case in point...

Giambi signs today with A’s for $4M, after he made over $20M last year. Why? Injuries, declining skill set, etc. So is Andy dropping from $16M to $10M such a shocking drop off?? Not in my book. Especially since you could argue Giambi had a better year than Pettitte last year.

The Jayfiss Report ...one fan's rants

by NumberSeven on Jan 7, 2009 2:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why

is everyone here worried about Pettite not getting a cent more than 10 Million, etc? I mean, let’s say you think he is worth 9-10 for one year, but paying 12 or something will get him, and you think that is more than he is worth. Why:
1)worry about what will be less than 1% of the total Yankees payroll in excess of actual worth?
2)Worry about what you think might be just above market value when all three free agents the team just signed were given contract in excess (and in the cases of Burnett and CC far in excess) of what they would get if the Yankees did not exist?
3)Worry about this especially in a one year contract?

Is it that you think the Yankees would be better off w/o Pettite, that they might be only marginally worse w/o pettite, or does it have something to do with not liking Pettite?

by Buzzy on Jan 7, 2009 8:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs