Where we went wrong, with Cashman

by Cbeck3 on Sep 3, 2008 3:24 PM EDT

Last winter we didn't want the Santana trade. We were wrong, and that error is a indicator of a larger amount of wrong thinking. (Wrong thinking will be punished)

I, and a bunch, but not all of you guys, have been over valuing prospects in my current thinking. Prospects are a dime a dozen. Many come along every year. Proven major leaguers are not common. Otherwise why would Moose and Pettitte still be pitching. Why would Johnny Damon and Jason Giambi and Matsui etc etc still find their fading skills in demand?

All the prospects who came along behind those guys, literally hundreds of them, have failed to beat them out of their jobs.

Watching Carl Pavano come in and pitch brought me around. Carl Pavano has it (when he's healthy enough to pitch). Hughes and Kennedy might or might not. I want to mend my ways. I do not want to trade stars for prospects. In the future I want to trade prospects for stars.

Anything can be overdone. In the past the Yanks might have overdone the trade the prospects thing. But an argument can be made they were doing the right thing. After all, look at all those flags and rings.

Not wanting to give the Twins what they needed for Santana might have been our biggest mistake in the last years. Maybe we should have traded for Tex too.

My feeling is that our next dynasty is not going to be built around Gardner, Christian, IPK and Alan Horne. I know they can each only be traded once, but no one in the system should be untouchable. No one.

I've rethought and retrenched my opinion. I give 2 or 3 EXCELLENT prospects for a star in his prime. Waiting for Cano to grow into that potential is futile. Chances are 9 out of 10 he's not going to do it.

Trying to guess who's healthy enough to play is a crap shoot. Career ending injuries happen. Injuries turn great players into ordinary ones. Still this is not a reason not to go with the proven players. You'll get a Carl Pavano some of the time. Other times you'll get Moose, or Matsui, or Abreu, or Giambi or David Cone, Paul O'Neil, Chris Chambles, Tino Martinez.

The heck with patience. Go get the horses to win in 09. If we have to empty the farm to do it then I'm willing to empty it. We have the money. We have THE city. We have the history. Players will choose to play here.

I was wrong, let's learn the lesson and move on. GO YANKS.

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You're missing

the value of good scouting. If our scouts are consistently wrong, they need to get sacked and we need to find the best in the biz. You can never be 100% right, but our percentage seems to be substandard of late. Why did Gene Michael bring up superstars from our system (Mo, Pettitte, Jeet, Jorgie, Bernie) and Cash brings up mostly duds (Melky, IPK, Hughes, Phillips, etc.)? That’s the question we should be asking, IMO.

by BrianByron on Sep 3, 2008 4:25 PM EDT 0 recs

remember the Pierzynski trade?

the twins traded a ‘proven vet’ for three ‘unproven prospects’. those guys were named Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser, Francisco Liriano.

remember the Kazmir trade?

the Mike Lowell trade?

so you want ‘proven vets’ like Carl Pavano? did i just read that right? maybe Randy Johnson’s more your cup of tea, or the albatross known as Jason Giambi. hell, we should’ve signed Barry Zito!

making a blanket statement like “I do not want to trade stars for prospects. In the future I want to trade prospects for stars” is not just myopic but wrong.

it’s WAY too early to call the non-Santana deal a loss. from what i understood, they required at least Hughes or Wang. Wang has been our best starter the last few years. Hughes has ace potential. no one thought Santana wouldn’t be better than Hughes this year. It’s what’s going to happen in 5 years. Hughes will be entering his prime, while Santana will be comfortably declining (just as he has been the last 3-4 years). Sabathia will be a FA, and the Yanks should go hard after him (he’s the best FA pitcher in years), because it only costs money, not prospects too (like the Mets paid).

it’s called patience. fine, so we might miss the playoffs this year. the Sawx missed the playoffs in 2006. they came back stronger in 07. sometimes everything goes wrong one year.

by Travis G on Sep 3, 2008 5:29 PM EDT 0 recs

Wrong

The non deal was a failure.

And this team is not good emough because we’ve been sitting on all the prospects and letting majors decay.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Sep 3, 2008 9:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

Right

You’re finally making sense. You can’t throw out nothing but veterans anymore than you can throw out nothing but youngsters.

Where the Yankees went wrong was not this year, but in 2004 when the Yanks started spending free agent money on mediocrity.

You have to develop your farm system to the point it’s healthy enough to produce mediocrity with a splash of high quality. You can import the high quality, but you should not pay for average.

The Yanks’ trade-‘em-young philosophy left the farm empty, so that when Andy and Roger bolted for Houston we had nothing to even fill the gap. What we’re enduring now is the price of that. What a good GM, like Cashman, will be able to do is balance maintaining a healthy farm system with selecting the high quality FA.

You want to trade the farm? Because you think you can a star player for a quality prospect and some maybes? After Joba, the Yanks don’t have any sure things in the system. Even the stud bats, Jackson and Montero, aren’t going to bring back big league talent on their own. And by the time you wait for them to have that kind of value you might as well play them.

I mean, come on. There’s hardly anyone arguing against Sabathia. He’s the right piece. I’m arguing against re-signing Pudge and Abreu, Garland or Perez.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 3, 2008 9:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

And the point I'm making here is that

We overvalued very good prospects. At that point in time people like Hughes and IPK had great trade value. I was overestimating the probability that one of those guys would progress to be a top pitcher.

Like you say league average is not the goal that’s fairly easy to get. What you need is a few real studs, mixed with nice ‘role players’ who are solid, steady around average performers to support your studs.

Look how having Mo in the pen makes the group be goos, when everyone else out there is pretty ordinary. (I may be being kind here).

If you look at the great Yankee team of ‘61. Mantle and Maris with Yogi and Elston Howard. The infiels was nice but not great, Kubeck at short, Richardson at second, it was Boyer at 3rd who was mostly a glove man. Moose Skoron was Giambi like in the field, not as good at the dish. Yogi and Mantle were sliding into the past prime catagory. The only real stud pitcher was Whitey Ford. Maris has a career year and it’s remembered as one of the best team EVER.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Sep 4, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up 0 recs

the Santana non deal

is not the reason why the yanks are where they are this year. On a whole, the pitching has been whats kept this team in it. So unless Santana could hit .320 and put up 40 & 120, I don’t see what his being in pinstripes would have done for this team this year.

The Jayfiss Report ...one fan's rants

by NumberSeven on Sep 3, 2008 11:02 PM EDT 0 recs

How about .300 35 130...

cause Miguel Cabrera was available but we sat on our hands for this so called “youth” movement.

by eltunagrande on Sep 4, 2008 7:01 AM EDT 0 recs

Cabrera

even at 25, is already set to play 1b (or DH) the rest of his career. part of his value was that he played 3b and LF. now that he’s at 1b, his value has already decreased. he’s having a very good year, not a great year like he did his previous three. just too many issues: his weight, his attitude, his fielding. remember when some said the Tigers would score 1000+ runs and run away with the division after that move? how’d that turn out?

by Travis G on Sep 4, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

The thing that you're forgetting

Is that the Yankees took this approach in the 1980’s. Fred McGriff, Al Leiter, and Doug Drabek were all Yankees prospects at one time or another, and were all traded for some “proven veteran”. Of course, the Yankees won nothing during the 1980s. Imagine having those three on the same team in their hayday…

You can’t trade for/sign every big name, because you’ll wind up with an older roster that’s guaranteed $200 million per year for the next five years, with nobody to fill in when these guys get hurt, and no way to get rid of them when their performance goes south.

I think the Yankees/Cashman have correctly begun to realize how the talent pool in baseball shapes up. There are very few “great” players, a few more “good” players, and many, many “average” players. This is irrespective of their status – rookie or proven veteran. It isn’t THAT difficult to find a pitcher who can give you an ERA around 5.00 and average 5 innings per start, the question is do you want this guy to be Barry Zito, who is guaranteed $17 million for the next 5 years, or Darrell Rasner, who makes $400,000 and can be released, traded, DFA’d, etc.??

If you’re Brian Cashman, tell me which makes more sense: Trading 3 of your top young players for a 29 year-old, left-handed, Cy Young winning ace, and then signing him to a $125 million contract, or waiting one year, and then signing a 28 year-old, left-handed, Cy Young winning ace to a $125 million contract as a free agent? Are the careers of Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, and Melky Cabrera worth giving up to get that ace one year earlier? Even now, I say absolutely not.

by 3460kuri on Sep 4, 2008 9:54 AM EDT 0 recs

yes

we’ve seen the ‘trade every prospect for a star’ philosophy in the 80s. the Yanks went nowhere. it was only when the owner stopped meddling (by force, not choice) that they could finally rebuild. unfortunately, Hank seems like a meddler. Sheff and RJ were entirely George. Cash supposedly wanted Vlad. the owner got his way.

by Travis G on Sep 4, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Completely disagree ...

Cashman could not have foreseen the ineffectiveness of Kennedy and Hughes. Few if any of us did. He couldn’t have anticipated catastrophic injuries to Wang, Posada, and long stays on the DL for Matsui, Bruney and Arod.

After two seasons, most everyone thought Cano was the real deal and Melky was ready to breakout.

Given the hand we were dealt, we have three people to thank for having us in this position right now … Mike Mussina (who we all left for dead), Mariano Rivera, and Cashman. Once again he pulled off some stellar moves—nabbing Marte and Nady for next to nothing.

Our minor league teams are competing in the playoffs and we have strong pitching throughout the organization. This isn’t by chance. This is largely due to Cashman, and the best part is that he kept us competitive. Are we going anywhere in ‘08? I don’t think so, but it’s not because of Cashman.

We are perfectly situated for a nice overall in 09… Our system is stocked, we have big money coming off the rolls and a checkbook flushed with cash. I’m excited. I really think 2009 will bring us a very different look to the Yankees. We’ll see some home-grown guys, mixed with some new horeses like Sabathia, or Tex or both. I can’t wait.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Sep 4, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

IPK pitched 19 meaningless innings last season

and showed in his brief time this year he is a back end starter at best.. There was NOTHING from last year except Yankee hype that showed Kennedy could be relied upon to be a major contributor.

by TheTruth08 on Sep 6, 2008 7:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

so 19 ip

last year are meaningless, and 40 this year are definitive? good thing you didnt run the Cubs back in the day or Greg Maddux would have been cut. never mind Tom Glavine, Johan Santana and Fausto Carmona (among many others).

right, nothing last year… except flying through the system, winning MiLB Pitcher of the Year and pitching 19 great innings in the Bigs. it’s called patience.

by Travis G on Sep 7, 2008 11:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

Agree

I think the Yankees have made their prospects out to be better than gold. This season has demonstrated the folly of that extreme.

What worries me more, though, is the fact no one has emerged to fill the “star” gap of last season’s propsects. Those lost some lustre and no one has inherited the shine.

Fake Teams - a proud member of the SB Nation

by faketeams on Sep 4, 2008 1:58 PM EDT 0 recs

Last year

was a crazy year. Those three pitchers exploded on the scene. It’s unfair to expect the farm to generate that kind of excitement 2 years out of 4, let alone two in a row.
It’s not just the big guns who are hurt:
Alan Horne has basically lost the season, Albaladejo has missed the whole year, meanwhile Melancon and Cox have been treated with kid gloves (rightly so). Stay tuned.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 4, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

To win there has to be...

people willing to work at winning. Going after the big numbers players isn’t always the best idea either (ahem…Barry Bonds anyone). I would like to see players willing to sacrifice personal gains for team wins anyday.

by ilBrutto on Sep 4, 2008 3:08 PM EDT 0 recs

Arod and Wang

You can name a lot of little things wrong with the team this year for sure, but if Arod performed at or near the level he did last year, and Wang was healthy, those two things combined would have the Yankees in the playoffs again or least in a legitmate race right down to the last few games.

We like to overcomplicate things. It’s Arod and Wang. Period. Think about it.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Sep 4, 2008 9:35 PM EDT 0 recs

Arod's not the problemi! Its Posada

Cano and Melky and Hughes and Kennedy and Joba

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Sep 4, 2008 10:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

Nope.

Think about it.

It’s really that simple. Arod and Wang.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Sep 4, 2008 10:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

I have to agree with Cbeck

you’re dead on with Wang, but the drop off from 2007 Posada (154OPS+, WARP3 10.6) to 2008 Molina/Pudge (55/59 OPS+, WARP 4.0/0.4) is greater than the drop from 2007 Arod to 2008 Arod (177 vs 161 OPS+, WARP 13.7 vs 10.5 and counting [13.8 pro-rated, is he playing better d?]).

That drop off is way more than even I expected. I keep hearing that every team has dealt with injuries; I’m going to see if any other team has suffered that large a drop (meaning had such poor replacements available) from last season to this.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 4, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

But

I’ll try to keep this short but….

I looked it up, on this date last year, the Yankees beat the Mariners. Wang won the game, raising his record to 17-6. Arod hit his 46th homerun and knocked in his 131st run.

My point is, if you put Wang on this year’s pitching staff, you don’t need just under 1000 runs to be a playoff team, and if you bring Arod’s level of play up to or near what it was last season, I think that would have been enough to overcome the loss of Posada et al.

Yes, Cano hurts. Yes, no Matsui (when he was out) and Posada hurts. Yes, Jeter’s numbers are down. But those players are complimentary players, and in some ways their absence/down numbers are offset by Damon (way better than last year), Giambi (ditto, plus he plays 1B and keeps a guy like Minky/Phillips/Betemit) on the bench, and Abreu (who is slightly up from last year. And most recently of course there’s moving Johnny to CF and adding Nady. You plug an ‘07 Arod into the lineup and an ’07 Wang into the rotation, and this team is at least within 2 games of the playoffs – and that’s leaving everything else as is.

Wang went down in Houston, which also happened to be the same series that Joba threw more than 90 pitches for the first time. Imagine if they both stayed in the rotation for however long Joba pitched after that (8 or 9 starts I think)? No team in the league could have matched Wang, Moose, Pettitte and Joba. That is the stretch of the season where I believe the Yankees would have made their move.

It’s Arod and Wang.

I’m not saying this to hate on Arod. I’m saying it because last year I finally realized what all the fuss was about. His stats look nice this year, but he is a shell of the player he was last season.

Arod and Wang. It really is that simple fellas.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Sep 4, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Which is precisely why

people need to step away from the big red flashing panic button.

We were all expecting great things this season; hell I even made a ridiculous prediction that Kennedy would have a fine season. So I was wrong. So were others. Big deal…live with it. But it is no reason to bolt from the very thing that has begun to give the Yankees LEVERAGE in the marketplace — they didn’t HAVE to make the Santana trade (how things worked out afterward isn’t relevant, it’s hindsight) — because they had Hughes, Kennedy and JOba coming up.

And going into next season, if Wang is healthy, you still have a 1-2 of Wang/Joba — Add Sabathia to that mix along with either Moose or Pettitte and (gasp) Pavano (I’m only suggesting it, not advocating it) or Hughes, and that’s a stronger rotation than this year’s.

I suspect Andy has pitched his last season here — he has not pitched well in a month and a half, I think? Moose should be willing to take a 1 year deal — he’s proven that when healthy, he can hold his own as a #4 or #5 guy (so again, less pressure for Hughes). (Note: I realize Joba won’t likely be able to pitch a full season as a starter).

Nevertheless, the offense was more often the problem this season than the pitching — less than 3 runs scored in 1/3 of your games is a BAD thing. If anything needs to change it is in the offense moreso than the pitching ranks (which really seems ludicrous given Pons-Ner as our 4/5).

Remind me again, why was DRas pitching today?

I fully expect the panic level to rise to epic proportions in the next 3 months…but emptying the farm system? Bad idea.

by detroit yankee on Sep 5, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up 0 recs

c'mon

you’re blaming Arod and Wang for the whole season?

1. Wang got injured. can you blame him for a freak injury? that was probably the nail in the coffin, but it’s not really anyone’s fault. it would’ve been great if Wang had been pitching the last two months instead of Ponson/Rasner. is 5 more wins reasonable?

2. Arod is having a very good year. not an MVP-type year, but very good nonetheless. he’s not the offensive problem, just part of it. Cano’s more to blame, so are Jeter and Melky, who are underperforming a lot more than Arod. the loss of Posada was a killer, as was Matsui for 3 months.

3. a top three of Sabathia, Wang and Joba would be among the best 1-3 in baseball. he should be the #1 target (and i expect no less).

by Travis G on Sep 5, 2008 2:32 AM EDT up 0 recs

No

You’re missing the point.

I’m not blaming Arod and Wang, especially Wang.

I’m just saying those two big things could have been enough to cover up all of the other little things that caused the season to not turn out as planned.

Why have the Yankees played well 2 of the past 3 days against the best team in MLB (especially at home)? Moose, a strong pen, and Arod SMASHING the ball again. They say one man does not a lineup make, but I don’t believe that’s true. When he’s right he takes the Yankees to places they couldn’t otherwise go, and he doesn’t need a ton of help to do it.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Sep 5, 2008 8:49 AM EDT up 0 recs

ok

i misunderstood. i thought you were somehow blaming Wang.

but i still disagree on Arod. Jeter had an MVP 2006 while Arod was disappointing, but they cruised to the division title and led the league in runs.

by Travis G on Sep 5, 2008 10:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

But

A-rods drop off has been in his power, not average. He’s already exceeded his doubles from last season (32 instead of 31) and is one pace to have 88 singles (98 last year). So extra base hits are not a problem except for HR, which have declined drastically.

by montanaJoeR on Sep 9, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up 0 recs

Posada is the heart of the team

Jeter gets the glory, but the heart of the team beats in Posada’s chest. Without him the Yankees didn’t have a rudder. Arod is a basher, but he’s no leader. Wang is a quality front-end starter, but he doesn’t affect the lineup day in and day out…

Posada is the man.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Sep 9, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Many brilliant thoughts in this thread.

Just wanted to say it is a pleasure to read amidst my disappointment in this organization right now.

There were so many things that “went wrong” this year. I don’t have the energy to list them all, and I will spare you guys of a rehash and all the “what if’s.”

I will give one outlandish statement and place blame on one person that I don’t think anyone else will. His name? Barry Zito. If Barry performs up to his contract, I think the Yankees make the Santana deal. Many teams are now reluctant to sign a proven pitcher to long term deal due to this fiasco.

One other thing. I know A-Rod is the best player in baseball. What scares me is his dismay of being in the spotlight. Case in point : When interviewed after the game when his home-run was the first to be reviewed by instant replay, his statement was “somehow I always find myself in the middle of these situations.” He needs to relish the spotlight and come through in high pressure situations if he is going to succeed here in New York. I really hope he overcomes this. We need him to in order to win another championship.

by bronxbound on Sep 6, 2008 11:22 AM EDT 0 recs

Zito

I think Zito was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. What long term deals for a pitcher have worked out? Mike Mussina’s comes closest, and by the end of that the Yanks couldn’t wait to chop his salary down from 18 to 11.
It’s Zito and Pavano and AJ Burnett and Randy Johnson and Mike Hamton and Denny Neagle. Contracts of more than 4 years are too long for a pitcher. I’d rather overpay on a 3 year deal than sign a 5 year.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Sep 6, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

How do you put Zito and Santana in the same breath?

I don’t know anyone who didn’t think the Zito contract was pure stupidity. After his first two big seasons he was basically a good pitcher not a great pitcher when Santana became available in the trade market. Cashman was gun shy because of the previous moron mistakes he made in the pitching market. The Yanks paid the price for going into this season relying on three young pitchers without a full year of major league experience to take a run at a World Championship.

by TheTruth08 on Sep 6, 2008 8:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

lots of teams

lean on ‘unproven’ young pitchers and win titles. it’s not the norm but it certainly happens.

by Travis G on Sep 7, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

NOT ONE TEAM IN THIS HISTORY OF BASBEBALL EVER

won a World Series with three ptichers in the rotation with less than a full year of major league experience so the idiot Cashman’s appoach had almost no chance of succeeding.. And you can dream all you want about IPK being a quality major league pitcher but with his lack of a quality fastball it’s not going to happen. And the Yankees have reaped absolutely nothing from the Gary Sheffield and Randy Johnson trades. And for those who say we have plenty of young arms in the farm system, there is nobody that is considered a major prospect at this point. Cashman is a total incompetent and he’s backed up by the idiot Hank who actually said after it looked like they lost Arod they he wouldn’t trade Kennedy for Miguel Cabrera.

by TheTruth08 on Sep 9, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

i dont have the time to determine

validity of that statement.

we have the benefit of hindsight, so we can safely say Cashman was wrong to depend on Hughes, Kennedy and Joba this year. But who (outside of Santana, bc we’ve pummeled that to death) should he have gotten? the best FA pitcher was Carlos freakin Silva. it’s going to be totally different this off-season. there will finally be some quality pitchers available in the FA market.

the Sheff trade got us three quality pitching prospects. Sanchez missed a year bc of TJS, but if he comes back anywhere close to what he was prior, he’ll be a relief stud. Kevin Whelan is a dominant strikeout pitcher in AA. He just has control issues. if those get settled, we’re probably looking at another quality reliever. Claggett is nothing special. Sheff had a good 2007, but is having a poor 2008.

re: the RJ trade – it netted us Luis Vizcaino (who turned into a high draft pick, Jeremy Bleich), AGon (flipped for a great strikeout pitcher currently in AA), and Ohlendorf (flipped for Nady and Marte). RJ missed all but 10 games last year, and has been slightly above average this year.

so to say we’ve reaped nothing is not really accurate. it’s helped get us Nady and Marte so far, but we’ll have to wait to see how the rest turn out.

whether Cash was wrong not to trade Ian, Melky and/or Hughes has yet TBD also.

by Travis G on Sep 9, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

Don't overreact to one bad season.

It’s interesting that you used the flags and rings to justify trading prospects. Wasn’t the recent dynasty built on the foundation of prospects the Yankees didn’t trade? Besides acquiring Babe Ruth, not trading Derek Jeter has to rank as one of the greatest personnel decisions in franchise history. The big mistake was relying too heavily on the young arms to carry them this season. Obviously that didn’t work…but let’s not throw the baby out with the proverbial bathwater. You have to be patient with these young pitchers as they develop. Just look across town and see how it took Mike Pelfrey three years to “get it.”

by xnumberoneson on Sep 8, 2008 11:57 AM EDT 0 recs

Agreed.

We have quality arms down below. One need only look at how our AAA and AA teams fared this season. Pitching wins championships, and we have it. But there’s a chasm between AAA and MLB, and you are right, we must be patient. The problem is, NY’ers aren’t patient. We’ve been spoiled these last dozen or so years and it burns alittle hotter knowing the Sux are flying high. It’s why I’m kinda’ glad Brady is out for the season. Boston needed alittle rain.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Sep 9, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

I have no problem being patient

but there is a limit.
Yankee starts YTD 2008 Mussina 30 Pettitte 30, Ponsone 22, Rasner, 20, Wang 15, Chamberlain 12, Kennedy 9, Hughes 6, Pavano 4, giese 3, Igawa 1, Bruney 1.

51 starts from folks no one would call young prospects. This is not being patient with young pitchers, it’s not having enough starters. Go get some.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Sep 9, 2008 9:00 PM EDT up 0 recs