Phil Hughes, John Flaherty, Ken Singleton
by TheTruth08 on Sep 18, 2008 1:35 AM EDT
11 comments
In the very first inning of last night's game, John Flaherty echoed the same opinion and the real reality on The Franchise that Ken Singleton said earlier in the season. Flaherty: "Huhges' fastball is very straight. No movement" And basically went on to say that when you throw a flat fastball in the 91-92 range you don't have a lot of margin for error...23K in12 innings in his last two minor league games, but has never exhibited a plus fastball and being the power pitcher he was advertised as. All you have to do is look at the major stuff Joba brings to the table and it is very clear Hughes is not in the same league. So how do people keep on thinking he is going to live up to all the billing, especially when he's supposed to be a power pitcher with an adequate fastball? I would hope some team is stupid enough to see value in him and Kennedy and dump both of these guys in the off season.
0 recs |
11 comments
Email
Print
Comments
oy
actually, his FB is plus. it can touch 95-96 with plus command. as for no movement, i dont really agree with that, but did you see that he now has a very nice cutter?
by Travis G on Sep 18, 2008 1:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
His fastball predominantly
is low 90’s as Flaherty pointed out and I’ve seen with my own eyes now over the last two seasons. As for his cutter, it wasn’t as impressive to me as it was to you. It did not have a real sharp break to it. The bottom line to me is he doesn’t have a high level fastball. When you have two former players like Flaherty and Singlenton, especially Flaherty being a former catcher, pointing out how he has no movement on it, I think you have to take a lot of credence in that. Leiter, by the way agreed with Flahery.They are not usually that direct with their critique of a player.
by TheTruth08 on Sep 18, 2008 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should agree ...
Flaherty is dead on. Hughes’s fastball may touch 95-96, but I didn’t see that last night. I saw 91-92, and at that speed coming in straighter than a Cherokee’s arrow, it’s gonna’ get hit if he misses his mark. The cutter is nice, but he needs to offset that with a sinking fastball. Learning to sink a ball isn’t that difficult—especially when you have Wang around.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Sep 18, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is this new fangled
idea that EVERY pitcher must throw a sinker?
1. a sinker is slower than a 4-seamer.
2. a 4-seamer is easier to command.
3. Hughes already has a downard moving FB (his cutter).
Clemens threw a 4-seamer, as did Gooden and RJ and Sabathia and countless other great pitchers…
you saw 91-92 bc that’s where he SITS. ‘touches’ means his maximum. and he touched 95 once last night along with several 93+ pitches.
by Travis G on Sep 18, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not ...
about velocity. When I pitched I SAT on 90-92. I ‘touched’ 94 on rare occasions when the skoal bandit I had in my mouth burst and I had a sudden adreneline rush. As a coach, I school my 15-16 year olds to chance speeds, and the hitter’s eye-plane.
A sinker isn’t a “new fangled” idea. The sinker, or drop pitch has been around since the early 1900s. Clemens threw easy gas well into the upper 90s with tailing movement. He added “Mr. Splitty” when he lost mph and movement from the fastball. Mr. Splitty as he calls it became a signature pitch for him. Gooden complimented his cheese with one of the nastiest hooks I’ve ever seen. His curve was hard and tight and changed the plane for the hitter. Johnson too compliemnts his 97-98 gas with a biting slider that changes planes. Guidry was another, as was Ryan and Koufax.
Travis, speed is good, but straight speed gets hit hard. Hughes isn’t Gooden, or Johnson. He simply doesn’t have the pop they had. But he can be wildly successful if he develops his pitches and can throw any at anyime for strikes; change speeds on those pitches; and develop something with some sink. That would give him an impressive arsenal.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Sep 19, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his curve
changeup and cutter all sink. ok, so he throws a one pitch that doesn’t. it’s probably better that way bc the 4-seamer will appear to rise compared to the other pitches. i agree about changing planes – that’s something all pitchers should do, and that 4-seamer is good for getting Ks above the belt.
i know the sinker has been around a while. what i meant was the idea that every pitcher should throw one. if he does end up needing one, i’m sure he’ll take to it quickly, but right now it has yet TBD.
his biggest problem hasnt been his FB getting hit, it’s been his command. he’s just 22, so the command will come. i also agree that the key (for any pitcher) is the ability to throw any pitch for a strike at any time.
by Travis G on Sep 19, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wildy successuful?
Your argument is based on pure speculation and nothing else. The bottom line is he doesn’t have the pure stuff that was talked about and the scouts around baseball and the Yankeese were wrong about him. When I look at pitchers a young Josh Beckett, Rich Harden, or Mr. Lincecum in SF right now, Hughes is not in the same universe. If you had to risk everything you had on whether Hughes will be a major success or not, what would your answer be?
by TheTruth08 on Sep 20, 2008 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Wildly successful"
If you really read my post you will see that I wrote “But he can be wildly successful if he develops his pitches and can throw any at anyime for strikes; change speeds on those pitches.”
He has the tools … He’s dominated in the minors …
He can be wildly successful if he develops his pitches and can throw any at anyime for strikes; change speeds on those pitches.
To answer your question, I would never risk everything I had on something I have zero control over. I don’t know what beats in Hughes’s chest. I don’t know what’s between his ears. But he can be wildly successful if he learns how to pitch.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Sep 22, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your arugument about Hughes
is such a reach and basically are saying he doesn’t have great stuff, which is usually expected from the No. 1 rated pitching prospect in baseball and the Yanks basically considered untradeable last off season. You argrument about throwing strikes at anytime and be able to change speeds can be applied to most pitchers, but when you are supposed to be a power pitcher and don’t have a plus fastball-which he doesn’t have-but you don’t seem to want to recognize-then you are going to have problems.
by TheTruth08 on Sep 23, 2008 7:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the average ML
fastball is about 89 mph. Hughes averages 91+. that makes his velocity plus. his command of it is also plus. that makes it at least a plus pitch, if not plus-plus.
by Travis G on Sep 23, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice rationalization about the Hughes fastball
If you consider 91 a plus fastball then you have a lot to learn about the game. Flaherty and Leiter both said that if you’re fastball is sooooo straight and you throw 91-92 you are going to have problems. These were two YES announcers-and happen to be a former pitcher and catcher-who blatantly criticized Hughes’ fastball. And again, Ken Singleton said the exact same thing in April. It’s not often you have home team announcers be this blunt in their assessment. There are plenty of pitchers that throw harder than Hughes who don’t have success either but I forgot that everthing here is looked at with rose colored glasses.
And you say his command is plus. What are you basing that on? His performance and stats don’t bear that out yet so you’re just assuming or maybe just wishful thinking as usual that he eventually will have great command.
by TheTruth08 on Sep 29, 2008 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
