Fire Joe Girardi

by jscape2000 on Aug 5, 2008 2:40 AM EDT in Analysis Comment 17 comments

The Yankee brass chased Joe Torre out of town because they wanted someone who was more than a baseball guy. When Joe Girardi was hired we were told we were getting a baseball lifer who could think creatively too.

And yet, all season long all I've seen is Joe Torre with a buzz cut.

Clearly, there's not much a manager can do about injuries. The team came to camp in great shape and every pitcher under 35 has faced time on the DL.

Also, I don't hold the manager particularly responsible for Robbie and Melky's slumps (though I do hold him responsible for playing them so often, especially Melky).

I despise the hit-and-run (forces the batter to swing at a pitch he might not otherwise, puts runner at added risk), and we've seen more hit-and-runs this season than I care to remember. But that's "baseball smart," so not really a fireable offense. Ditto bunts, the righty-lefty matchup, not using the best reliever in history in tie games on the road, and batting a speedy guy at the top of the lineup.

But we've seen Yankee relievers serve up grand slams on consecutive days.

Not necessarily a fireable offense, until you dig into the context.

Edwar Ramirez served up a grand slam to Mark Teixeira on his 26th pitch of the inning, following a 7-pitch walk (the second of the inning).

Damaso Marte's salami came on his 30th pitch of the 9th, his 42 of the night, and following a 6-pitch walk to Josh Hamilton. It was Marte's third walk in the inning!

Remember how we used to watch Joe Torre on autopilot while Farnsworth melted down? You could feel the entire Stadium staring at the dugout begging Joe to wake up from his green tea educed nap. That's how I've felt during these last couple of games.

Yes, I understand Joe wants to trust his players. But when a reliever issues his second walk of an inning, I want to go get him. This is especially true for Edwar- he's proven to me that when he's on it's sick and when he's not right it's sickening. I feel just as strongly about Marte tonight: multiple innings, not an easy two-thirds in the 8th, control issues (including a great save by Pudge to avoid a go-ahead wild pitch).

Like Edwar last night, Marte didn't just fail tonight- he was set up for failure by the manager. After walking Hamilton (a lefty), there's no excuse for Marte to face the righty having thrown that many pitches.

The Yanks overcame mismanagement yesterday, but they couldn't do it tonight. They missed a golden opportunity to pick up a game on both the Red Sox and the Rays.

There are 50 games left, and then I hope the Yankee brass takes a good hard look at whether they have the best man for the job running the team.

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I agree

with you on Edwar and the Angels game.

But it seems for some reason that Veras was unavailable last night. Pete Abe said so, but he didn’t say why. He also was trying to avoid using Rivera. In fact both games – Angels on Sunday and last night – blew up because he couldn’t go to Mo.

If it’s true he couldn’t use Veras, the guy up before Byrd was Hamilton, and you don’t want Robertson facing him. And I might have brought in DR to face Byrd, but doing so with the bases loaded wasn’t exactly a no-brainer.

Girardi’s bullpen managment has been his biggest strength. As much as he is like Torre in other areas, he has been the direct opposite of him when it comes to the bullpen.

Give him a break on the pen. He’s earned it.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Aug 5, 2008 8:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Disagree completely ...

According to Joe, the next guy he was going to use was Robertson … Unfortunately he never got to him. Giving up back to back slams, while certainly unusual, isn’t a “fireable offense”. I happen to think (and the stats bear it out) that Dave Eiland and Joe have done an exceptional job with the pen. Save for Mo, we don’t have any “high-priced” superstars. Instead we have a decently rested group of no-names who are usually getting the job done.

Okay, did Edwar screw up? Yes. He threw three changeups to punch and judy hitters, and then flipped a batting practice fastball into Teixeira’s wheel-house. In my opinion it has more to do with Pudge. Since he’s been starting we’ve seen two slams… Coincidental? I don’t know. But it certainly raises an eyebrow for me.

Joe has made some tactical mistakes in my opinion, but he’s a big upgrade over the catatonic Torre.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Aug 5, 2008 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've got my eye on Pudge

Joba gave up 3 homers all season before Irod arrived, 2 homers after.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 5, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm telling you, there's truth to what I'm alleging

No question he’s a first ballot HoFer, but there is a learning curve, and it’s apparent that he hasn’t read that section of the book yet.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Aug 5, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Transition

I would say that going from Torre to Girardi is a big change for the Yankees and I (optimistically) consider this to be a transition year for them. The past few seasons have been nothing less than frustrating so I think to expect a sudden radical change in one season is a little unrealistic. I say give the man a little time before running him out of the Bronx.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Aug 5, 2008 8:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i have to disagree.

I want to say i understand where your coming from and a mistake was made last night. But you can’t bash Girardi. Yes, the Yankees bullpen allowed grand slams on consecutive nights but we only lost one of those games. The Yankees just split the series against the Angels who are easily the best team in baseball. With two back-to-back 4 game series’ being able to take 5 out of 8 games is not bad, and it is still a possibility with the way the rangers are pitching and the way the Yankees are hitting.

Blaming Joe for last nights pitching mistakes is not the right thing to do. Have you forgotten that in the beginning of the season the Yankees starting pitching situation was questionable and the bullpen was a mess. If the question came up at the beginning of the season, How will the Yankees make it in the Al East without Wang, Bruney, and Hughes for the majority of the season? 99% would say the Yankees would not even be above .500 this late in the season. Joe Girardi, despite the injuries, managed to keep the Yankees bullpen and starting pitching together.

Ronster22, I agree with you on this.. “Joe has made some tactical mistakes in my opinion, but he’s a big upgrade over the catatonic Torre.”

To compare Joe Girardi to Joe Torre is ridiculous. Girardi turned the Yankees weakness into its biggest strength. With the exception of last nights loss and Sunday’s grand slam against the Angels, the bullpen was lights out for nearly 3 months! Not to mention the starting pitching, going deep into games and really shutting down offenses; for the most part. Joe Torre was a zombie in the dugout last year. There were games the Yankees would be getting blown out and he wouldn’t do a thing about it. He had no life left in him to even try and set up a rally. He needed to get shipped out and LA was the perfect place for him, so good for Joe. As for Joe Girardi, I believe hes the perfect fit for this Yankees team. Hes young, hes aggressive, and most importantly he doesn’t hesitate. The guy studies every pitch to detail all night long and is 100% prepared for the next day’s game. He is fighting for a playoff spot in the Al East along with rebuilding for this teams future. He makes sure everyone is rested properly and gives everyone a chance. This is a team, at the beginning of the season, everyone said would fail. With Joe as manager, thats not the case. He is ready to win, he is ready to lead the Yankees to another World Series title. If there is anyone that can bring this Yankees team to a World Series Championship, it’s Joe Girardi.

by Fluke on Aug 5, 2008 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I dissagree too

Basically all of my points were made in past posts. But there wasn’t much Girardi coulda done last night with Veras and Mo unavaliable. Girardi has done a fine job i think.

"Hey Derek do you actually drive the Edge?","I don't drive that piece of crap!"

by Da Shiz on Aug 5, 2008 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Girardi is not

Letting us know how much of a box he’s in. We may have more sore arms out there than we know.

Just a thought.

Plus the game was tied. DR might have been the last arm. We might have been looking at Molina on the mound. Hmmm. That man can throw.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Aug 5, 2008 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Molina on the hill ...

After watching Pudge’s bullet sail past a bailing Joba, I’d like to see him take to the mound with Molina as his battery mate. No question both could give you a couple of quality innings.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Aug 5, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He had some options.

DR can pitch two innings and Jose Veras had one inning left in him. Marte is a one inning and done person and should not be streched. He showed he had shaky command in the 8th and that was evidence enough to not bring Marte back in for the 9th. That means he could have pitched to the 12th inning just using DR/Veras.

The only logical reasoning was that Joe was planning for tomorrow. Rivera is still out one more night, Ramierz has pitched two nights in a row, Marte has now pitch 2 innings. He only has DR/Veras fresh for tomorrow.

by Dave Hunt on Aug 5, 2008 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Holy hell, let's take it easy...

I don’t disagree with you on some of the comments about Girardi’s decision-making on those hoary old baseball cliches like the hit and run, etc. However, it’s a little early to be talking firing…. he’s well-liked by players, respected, not played out (i.e., like being there 12 years might cause), the team has - as mentioned - suffered some injuries, and yet they’re still in the thick of it.

Patience is a virtue.

[insert prophetic yet obnoxiously haughty and annoying quote here]

by J Money BS on Aug 5, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The headline got a lot more attention

than I really intended.

Yes, this is the best bullpen since Quantril and Gordon joined the team. Girardi has impressed me with his work distribution.

And Girardi has impressed me further with his involvement in with the minor leagues. He knows the players in the organization, not just 25 man roster. That protects him in the long term (if I were GM).

But I think the Yanks should look at his weaknesses and discuss them. We may as well decide in November that the devil we know beats the devil we don’t (I took that angle through most of the Torre execution this past offseason).

Joe G.’s weaknesses (as I see them):
He leaves relievers in too long, especially if we’re trailing (sometimes this is a good thing when it protects the rest of the pen by burning out a guy who can be replaced by a AAA pitcher).
His play calling is overaggressive.
He overmanages the lineup.
He thinks very traditionally about roster construction (lefty in the pen, pinch runner, etc.).

He may be the best option, and it seems smart to look.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Aug 5, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Best Yankee bullpen in a long time

Like most people here, I disagree with the main post. Our bullpen has been exceptionally well managed all year. Everyone has gotten regular playing time without being ridden too hard, something Torre loved to do. That’s why our bullpen ERA is so low this year compared to usual years. Everyone’s rested, but no one’s riding the bench. Now, these last two days might have been questionable calls, but everyone seems to get short term memory in these cases. All of a sudden, Girardi’s bullpen managing is terrible because he made a bad decision in two back to back games?

I don’t think Girardi needs to be fired because he was resting two relievers and didn’t want to waste another reliever in the game. Marte is a capable enough pitcher. Yes, I probably would have pulled him too after he walked Hamilton, but you can’t fire a manager on one second guess. Regardless of your short term memory, Girardi has not left many of our releivers out there to die as you make it sound.

You have to keep things in perspective. This was an excellent chance to gain a game on both the Rays and Sox, but that doesn’t mean that the manager should be fired for one or two games. This hasn’t gone on all season.

by DeathSquire36 on Aug 5, 2008 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Girardi

I’d wait for the game thread to post this but I probably won’t be near a computer then.

Just saw tonight’s lineup.

Against a scrub lefty he benches Giambi and plays Sexson. I like bullpen manager Girardi, lineup manager Girardi- not so much.

Having said that, it’s interesting that Christian is in CF again tonight and Melky is sitting. Justin, get a couple of hits, steal a couple of bases. The job is there for the taking buddy.

Also interesting that Molina is catching Andy tonight. Girardi will probably say it’s due to the heat, but Joe G. knows very well that Andy has always been fussy about who catches him, and it went pretty horribly with Pudge last week.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Aug 5, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree... but not yet

First of all, the people putting down Torre are crazy. It definitely was time to move on but twelve consecutive posteasons and four world series are not feats to scoff at.

Upgrade? Regardless of the injuries our “champion” franchise has bitched about for an entire year, Torre headed us straight to the playoffs and suddenly, the organization has fallen off the tracks. I can’t disagree with the fact he was dead on the bench but whatever he did worked. Girardi has made several bullpen decisions that are extremely perplexing and our top relievers are showing extreme signs of wear late in the season.

I completely agree with jscape2000 in that he overmanages and goes by the books way too often. Earlier in tonight’s epic meltdown (giving seven runs in the eighth… without getting an out) the Yankees convert on a fluky hit and run by Melky Cabrera of all people, Damon punches one into center as we look to pull away and beat the best team in baseball. Our prestigious future hall of fame hitter renowned for hitting in big situations is forced to sacrifice bunt in hopes to get that one extra run. Unfortunately, we held back from a breakaway inning and couldn’t even get the run in thanks to A-Rod living up to his .222 RISP. This seems like nitpicking in an 11-4 loss but a couple of extra runs allows Veras to relax and may have eased Ramirez of his growing pains. Girardi’s overmanagement was a big factor tonight.

This hasn’t come up yet, but Girardi has to hold the young players accountable for absolutely pathetic pitching performances thrown out recently. He can’t expect his young guys to mature if he glorifies their outings in any way. Calling Edwar Ramirez’s night a blip and making the already cocky Ian Kennedy sound as if he had provided a decent start isn’t exactly going to be a motivating factor.

The only reason people aren’t freaking out at Girardi is because he hounds the media and is an extremely nice guy. How many straight games has Joe Girardi been on television acting like a total saint?

This is a big transition year for the Yankees and in a weird way, I don’t think they should even make the playoffs and save themselves the embarrassment at this point. This is a team that should be winning and regardless of who’s on the DL, when we’re not even in a wild card position, Girardi isn’t doing his job. We need to give him time to come around.

by jeterfan21 on Aug 10, 2008 2:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs