Should we trade for a catcher, bat, starter?

by Cbeck3 on Jul 22, 2008 11:11 AM EDT

Pete A. at the LoHud is being the voice of reason. He points out that a good player will be very expensive. I have agreed "The Yanks shouldn't mortgage much of the future for a rental." all along.

Now I'm rethinking.

The trend is that big players are not going to free agency. We've been thinking that we could not trade for them, wait til they become FA's and sign them. Good ones of course cost a top prospect because they cost a draft pick. But other teams are trading for them and locking them up. This leaves us standing pat.

I am recognizing a complicating factor. If a top player costs a top prospect and a salary in free agency that has to be figured into discussions. If we trade for a bat or a starter we should trade for someone we want and then try to lock them up. If we do lose them we get a pick back. Good prospects tend to dim quickly in our eyes when they hit the BIGS (see Kennedy, Ian and Gardiner, Bret) or take longer to develop than we have patience (see Navaro, Dioner(and maybe Melky, Hughes, Kennedy, Gardiner etc etc)). More "can't miss" prospects miss than make it big. I'm ready to part with some top prospects.

The Yankees have a long tradition of making use of great players nearing the end. Bobby Shantz, Roger Clemens, David Cone, Enos Slaughter, Cecil Fielder, Doc Gooden, Darrel Starwberry, Ken Griffey, etc. etc

So why not Barry Bonds. Barry Bonds was a great player. If he plays again he will be under incredible scrutiny. Would he play clean for us? Could he play clean? Should we pick him up? I don't believe I said that. I do not want him on my team. He is the Darth Vader of our times.

Now I am not thinking that if we can get someone who would help short term and would help long term if we could lock them up we should try to swing the deal. Some of these deals are made contingent on the player quickly agreeing to an extension.

The All-Star game had a positive message for us. The players think the Yankees are THE team and New York and Yankee Stadium is THE place to play. Players who we trade for might be more signable than we'd guess.

Ok, now particulars, we need to upgrade Sidney Ponson. We've won his games so far, but his WHIP is 1.721. That IS going to catch up with him.

So, I agree with Pete A. If we make a move it should be a starter. Jorge is gone for the season. Matsui is probably too. But I do not see catchers or great bats out there. There have been pitchers though. There figure to be more.

If we wait for Hughes , Kennedy or help from the minors we might be waiting for next year (or for Carl Pavano). Sooner or later we are bound to miss the playoffs. I remember the shock when we missed them in 1959. I just am not ready to miss them this year. GO Yanks.

It is fun to see them play well and pull out close games.

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Need a power bat

Molina and Moeller can handle the catching and we probably gain alittle over Jorge. But without Matsui or Posada in the lineup, we lose some serious production. We picked up Sexson on the cheap, and I felt that was a decent move, but if we are really serious about making a deep run into October, we need a quality power bat—and someone who can play leftfield.

If I’m Cashman, I’m making a hard run at Jason Bay, Rowand and yes, even Barry Bonds (although I’d prefer a righty bat).

I’ve heard some others mentioning another starter, and after looking around, there really isn’t any quality arms out there—unless we want to part with real prospects. Our pitching will hold up. We have alittle depth there. But Posada’s gone, Matsui’s gone, and we need to augment the lineup. A quality bat, in my opinion is at the top of the wish list.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 23, 2008 9:26 AM EDT 0 recs

I was just looking at the main internal candidates for 4th and 5th starters

If you rank them by this year’s WHIP you get

1. Giese!
2. Rasner
3 Ponson
4. Kennedy
5. Hughes

I think we try to hold the fort with the current guys unless something changes. When Kennedy and Hughes are ready they have to get themselves pitching lights out in Scranton before they step in front of first Ponson and then Rasner. OF course if Wang gets ready a spot is his.

I would, however give a good prospect for someone like Washburn.

Before I sign up for a bat I need to know the deal. We could sure use a bat, but who is it and what does he cost?

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Jul 23, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

The one big drawback on acquiring Washburn

is that he is signed though 2009. So that means acquiring him will guarantee a spot in the rotation for next season as well.

Washburn is an upgrade over either Rasner or Posnon, but I don’t like the idea of etching his name into the rotation already for next season when he has yet to throw a pitch for this team.

The one good thing about replacing Ponson or Rasner from within is that the young guys can be sent back down if they don’t work out.

If Washburn doesn’t work out, the Yanks are stuck with him until the end of 2009.

by anaconda on Jul 23, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

If he doesn't cut it he can pitch with Igawa

He just will be on the team, doesn’t put hiim on the active roster or in the rotation.

I say get him. See if they’ll take Igawa in the transaction.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Jul 23, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yes it would put him on the active roster

Igawa was a different story because he was a rookie last season. They can send him back down to the minors if he doesn’t pitch well.

But that’s not the case with Washburn. If he doesn’t work out, they have no choice but to release him, trade him, or be stuck with him.

And he’s going to make over $10M+ next season, so they’ll have to eat that contract if they release him.

by anaconda on Jul 23, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Let me clarify

Washburn would have to clear waivers and then accept the demotion to the minors for him to pitch in Triple-A.

It’s highly unlikely that a guy making $10M+ next season would accept a minor league assignment when he could be released and catch on with another team.

Just like Richie Sexson.

by anaconda on Jul 23, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

Need one relief pitcher, one starter, extra offense

The state of the pitching staff isn’t as bad as everybody thinks.

To be honest, I think the 7 current Yankee relief pitchers are THE BEST bullpen in the majors. Rivera, Ramirez, Veras, Farnsworth, Giese, Robertson, and Hawkins (yes, Hawkins) have combined to give up 3.09 runs/9 innings, 1.08 WHIP, 8.5 K/9 innings, and 2.9 K/BB. Hawkins numbers have been ugly, so when Bruney is activitated, or they trade for somebody, I hope and pray that he is the one released. This makes the best bullpen in baseball even better.

The current rotation hasn’t been bad either: 4.23 runs/9 innings, 1.35 WHIP, 6.6 K/9 innings, and 2.8 K/BB. Joba, Pettitte, and Mussina make a solid front three, and Rasner has actually been a good 5th starter – he’s gone 5 innings or more in 12 of 13 starts and given up 4 runs or less in 10 of 13 starts. Sidney Ponson needs to go ASAP. His ERA has been good this year but it’s a fluke – he just isn’t a major league pitcher anymore. Trading for somebody like Jarrod Washborn, as is rumored, makes a lot of sense – he’s a dependable, back-end guy who will give you 5-6 innings and keep you in the game most of the time. Plus, if Wang, Hughes, or Kennedy are able to contribute anything this year, he can take Rasner’s spot.

Offensively, no catcher combination can replace the offense we get from Posada, no matter what % of baserunnrs they throw out. Unfortunately, we have to live with Molina/Moehler. However, Cano is having his usually second half hot streak, Jeter has slowly and steadily improved, and Abreu has been passable. Trading for somebody like Jason Bay makes a lot of sense. Perhaps they shift Damon back to center and put Melky on the bench.

So, what we need is…
1.) any relief pitcher with an ERA under 5.00
2.) a starter like Jarrod Washborn
3.) a corner outfielder who can post an .800 OPS.

I think getting two out of the three puts us in great shape.

by 3460kuri on Jul 23, 2008 10:21 AM EDT 0 recs

Who is everybody?

Are we talking about the same team?

Our pitching is the very reason why we are even in contention right now. Our pitching has been an unexpected and largely pleasant surprise. Unless we are considering adding a frontline starter ala Santana, Harden, Sabathia, Kazmir I say we stand pat. The last thing we need is an aging pitcher who hasn’t been effective since 2002. Washburn is tomorrow’s Pavano, in my opinion. His WHIP and ERA are approaching interest rates and should be avoided.

Simply stated, we don’t need him.

When you make inane comments like “we have to live with Molina/Moeller, I can only conclude you are a moron. Molina is an all-star behind the dish, and handles the staff better than Posada ever could. Sure he doesn’t have a great bat. So long as the rest of the all-star team hits we don’t need it. The staff ERA with Molina catching is more than a run less than Posada. Are you telling me Posada’s offense is better than a run a game?

We also don’t need a reliever. Our guys are solid, rested, and humming along. Just in case no one noticed, Edwar Ramirez and Kyle Farnsworth are both working on 9+ inning no hitters. Our pen has been spectacular and should be left alone.

I do agree that a corner OF is a good move. Bonds would come cheap, Bay, not so much.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 23, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

dude calm down...

I’m the moron??

Jose Molina’s career batting line: .240 BA/.276 OBP/.339 SLG

Jorge Posada’s career bating line: .277 BA/.380 OBP/.477 SLG

So Jose Molina has magical powers that make the pitcher’s ERAs better? I think it has more to do with the fact that Posada was the primary catcher for most of the Hughes/Kennedy/Ohlendorf innings, which could explain “his” ERA being higher.

Even if he does have magic powers as a catcher, there is no defensive contribution that Molina can make, even if he throws out 75% of runners attempting to steal and “calls a good game” (quantify that by the way), that makes up for a .260 OBP and .300 SLG this year.

So yes, unfortunately, we have to live with Molina/Moehler. I would rather have Carlos Zambrano or CC Sabbathia at the plate. Nothing can compensate for that.

Our bullpen has been great….expect for LaTroy Hawkins. He can’t be trusted with a 5-run lead. Releasing him and calling up anybody from AAA will be a significant improvement. We need to do that ASAP.

Are you saying we should stick with Fat Sid in the rotation? Have you seen his WHIP (1.7), or strikeout to walk ratio (1:1)?? His ERA is relatively low as the result of good luck, but he will implode, sooner or later, and go back to being the 6.00 + ERA pitcher that he is. Washborn is not an all star, but he is a proven, league average innings eater, which is actually quite an improvement over Ponson. We’re chasing two teams and I don’t want to miss out on the postseason because we gambled with Sidney Ponson longer than we had to.

We would have Washborn for one more year (not four, like Pavano). He is a better pitcher than both Ponson and Rasner. If he doesn’t cost anything in prospects, and the contract commitment isn’t long, why is it stupid to pick him up? He would also give us some insurance for next year, as we only have two sure things (Wang, Joba) at the moment.

by 3460kuri on Jul 24, 2008 9:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

I do not think we should give anything up to strengthen the bullpen

I think we have more people in the minors who are getting close.

I agree if we can get Jarrod for not too much as a salary dump. I heard we’re trying to unload Igawa in that deal. Almost too good to be true. So I agree with trying to do that deal.

I do not want to deal for an outfielder unless he’s truly an outstanding hitter. Average players seem to be a dime a dozen.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Jul 23, 2008 2:23 PM EDT 0 recs

Cbeck ... are you kidding me?

Dude, you are usually spot on, but Washburn? Are you nuts? Review his record, and remember he did that with the Angels—a quality offensive ballclub. Does the name Pavano mean nothing to you?

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 23, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Washburn

is a better pitcher than Rasner and Ponson.

Pavano is a more physically talented pitcher, but he can’t stay on the field. Washburn has pitched 177 innings or more every year since 2001. Sorry, Pavano is a lousy comparison. One was the best free agent available who completely flamed out, the other is a guy to fill out the back end of the rotation.

If the Yankees can get him in a salary dump for a less than very good prospect, they should jump at the opportunity. Especially if the Mariners take Igawa.

His W-L is bad but he has been pitching to a 2.65 ERA over his last eight starts and he has always pitched well in the Bronx.

As for having him around in 2009, is that a positive not a negative?

Moose might not be back, even if Hughes is healthy he’ll be on an innings cap, and Pettitte might not be back. They’re gonna need all the starters they can get. They have Joba and Wang, whose coming off a busted foot.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Jul 24, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up 0 recs

Washburn

I guess you’re right. When you look at his raw season ERA and WHIP, it’s not exactly enticing, but here are the stats for the last 7 starts for Washburn, Ponson, and Rasner.

Washburn: 14 ER in 45 inn w/ 25 Ks
Ponson: 22 ER in 38.2 inn w/ 17 Ks
Rasner: 28 ER in 34.1 inn w/ 25 Ks

Washburn pitches more innings and gives up fewer runs. If the three continue pitching like this, Washburn would serve us much better than the other two, who haven’t been half bad. Then our rotation down the stretch would be Moose, Joba, Pettitte, Wang, and Washburn (or Moose, Joba, Pettitte, Washburn, and Ponson/Karstens/Rasner/Aceves/Kennedy/McCutchen/et al).

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Jul 24, 2008 12:57 AM EDT up 0 recs

No to Washburn

I’m sorry, but everyway I look at this it smells. Washburn is not the pitcher he was back in 2002. His velocity, command aren’t top-shelf, and frankly I think he’s more of a Rasner who had a couple decent seasons. Why would we want another one.

When Rasner is aggressive in the zone and pitches ahead, he’s decent. Leave him be and stay away from the retread train.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 24, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

I like Rasner and Giese better than Ponson

Still think about the deal this way. Igawa goes to Seatle. Washbrn should be easier to get rid of than Igawa. With a shorter contract he’s also easier to DFA.

If he helps, fine. If not then,...fine.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Jul 24, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Not necessarily

Hawkins only makes $3.5M and has been utterly worthless all season.

Most Yankee fans have wanted him gone since Opening Day but he’s still on the roster on July 24th.

Washburn will make $10M next season. It’s easy for us to say to simply DFA someone when it’s not our money being wasted.

by anaconda on Jul 24, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

Which trades to make?

1) SP
I think Mussina, Pettitte and Joba will be fine. I am not sure if we can depend on Rasner and Ponson to be a reliable 4th and 5th SP. If we can get rid of Igawa, Washburn trade might make sense although he is a career .500 pitcher. The Yanks might go after Toronto’s Burnett, but I am not so high on his durability. I would say no to this trade as Burnett will cost a lot and his return is questionable. Buster Olney said the Yanks are high on Aceves in Triple A, but I am not sure if he can contribute this year.

2) Bullpen
This unit is doing great especially some no names like Robertson and Ramirez. If we can get a LHP reliever, it would enhance the already strong bullpen.

3) IF/OF
With a likely possibility of both Posada and Matsui shutting down, the Yanks are in serious need to upgrade their bat. Jason Bay or Xavier Nady will help, but they will cost some serious prospects. Maybe it will take a package like IPK, either Tabata or Jackson plus few low level prospects. At this moment, the Yanks will need to have a list of untouchables like Hughes, Jackson, Betances.. etc.

This team is riding on a great momentum now. WIthout any trades, they may make to the playoff. However, they will need to make a few moves as other contending teams are likely to make a few moves of their own. Unless Jeter/Cano/Melky pick-up, they will need some bats for sure.

by yankeesintexas on Jul 23, 2008 3:08 PM EDT 0 recs

Jason Bay for IPK, Tabath and a low level prospect or two?

Where do I sign?

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Jul 23, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'd do that deal and drive the car to pick him up.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jul 24, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

Right

I love home grown talent, but at some point you need to harvest value from some of the guys because they cannot all make the squad.

We have Joba and CMW for the rotation for a long time. We think Andy may come back a year or two. Moose should pitch at least another year. He’s saved our bacon this year. REward him. Help him make the HOF.

We think Hughes is a superior prospect to IPK.

We think Brackman is coming. We can spare IPK if it helps now.

Jackson, Tabata, Gardner, Christian, etc, etc cannot all make the Yanks. And Bay would help now and like Abreu, probably will help for a number of years.

Liking our prospects doesn’t mean we never part with any of them.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Jul 24, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up 0 recs