Pinstripe Alley: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Myers, Phillies Top Dodgers Bar-right-arrows



Is our bullpen really so bad?

I miss posting here regularly ... I no longer have a television in the same room as my computer, so I can't watch games and post at the same time.

After FOX pointed out that the Yankees are something like 35-1 when leading after the 6th inning, it made me wonder if the evidence of our bullpen's much-heralded suckitude is more circumstantial than real. So I went on baseball-reference.com and crunched some numbers. 

Star-divide

Our bullpen's combined ERA is 2.62 when the starting pitcher makes a quality start (for those not familiar, that's 3 ER or fewer in at least 6 IP). It is 4.40 after a nonquality start. Now I realize a) that this is largely a function of the fact that better relievers are used in more important situations; and b) ERA is not the most useful statistic for relief pitchers. But it nonetheless suggests to me that, taken as a whole, our bullpen's biggest flaw is that when the starting pitcher has a bad day, they often let the game get even more out of control. The anecdotal evidence, such as the atrocity that was Game 1 of the Yanks-Mets doubleheader, suggests the same.

But when it comes to the far more important task of holding leads, our bullpen seems to be doing just fine — even without Joba. (I divided the games up by quality start as opposed to by whether the starter left with a lead simply because it was easier.) 

The statistic I collected as a byproduct of this number crunching is the real reason the Yankees aren't where we'd like them to be halfway through the season: In 81 games, our rotation has only given us 40 quality starts. (Granted, this includes a couple of anomalies like that game Bruney started and the ones in which Joba was on a pitch count.) This all suggests to me that the Yankees would have been crazy NOT to move Joba into the rotation when they did, and that those who suggest otherwise are not thinking straight. 

Let us hope that the second half of the season brings us more consistency from our starting pitchers. The offense looks to be in great shape after a slow start, and the bullpen is plenty good enough. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on the best way to upgrade the starting-pitching situation in the extended absence of Chien-Ming Wang. What, realistically, would we have to give up for Sabathia? Better yet, what realistic trade options exist beyond Carsten Charles? Should we try and plug the holes internally and hope for the best? I don't have a strong opinion on the matter.

0 recs | Comment 13 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

I feel you are right

The bullpen has been a little better than adequate. They’ve been quite good.

As to starting pitching. With Andy Moose and Joba we have a good core. It is optimistic to expect too much from Giese but I feel Rasner can be adequate at #5 if Ponson can be adequate at #4. We need offense when they pitch, but we have offense.

As I posted recently I am counting on IPK. I do not have confidence more help is coming from the minors. We have a lot of people there at lower levels or coming from injuries. It would be bad to rush them too much.

The team is playing quite well. Let’s hang on and see what developes.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Jun 29, 2008 11:33 AM EDT   0 recs

Where were you finding your information?

I wonder how many quality starts other teams have and how the yankees compare.

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Jun 29, 2008 12:56 PM EDT   0 recs

just looking at the box scores on baseball-reference and seeing how many innings each starter pitched and how many earned runs he gave up in that time. :)

by DocBrown82 on Jun 29, 2008 11:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

quality starts

just one more example: the dreaded Red Sox. 45 quality starts in 84 games. not as many as I would have thought, but still better than the Yanks. (54% as opposed to 49%)

by DocBrown82 on Jun 29, 2008 11:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The good news is

The Sox appear to have the same problem, only their problem is worse because Papelbon has struggled at times a bit too.

Okajima can’t get anyone out, and Delcarmen has been very inconsistent, dominant one day lousy the next.

This might sound crazy, but if Dice K’s shoulder doesn’t hold up, the Rays might have more staying power than the Sox. Especially if Ortiz doesn’t come back at full strength. Barring another injury, the Yankees are only going to get stronger from this point forward. I don’t know if you can say that about the Sox.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Jun 30, 2008 9:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

wow, Oki really has been sucking lately

9.64 ERA, 2.57 WHIP in the month of June. somehow I was unaware of this.

as Nelson Muntz would say, HA-ha!

by DocBrown82 on Jun 30, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah I haven't been a very good

baseball fan this season. I have been watching every single yankees game, but I have no idea about the state of the division league. Oki sucking was news to me too.

Crowds are won and lost and won again, but our hearts beat for the diehards.

by Edwantsacracker on Jun 30, 2008 12:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The thing is

Farnsworth has been horrible – and horrible isn’t a strong enough word – when he comes in with any kind of cushion. But in games with no cushion he’s been pretty good by some miracle. This can’t and won’t continue. Everyone but Girardi seems to know this.

Veras has been a pleasant surprise.

Other than that, every pitcher in that bullpen right now is terrible. Edwar and Hawkins need to not pitch anymore. That day can’t come soon enough. Bruney’s return should knock one of them out. Yes, it would certainly help if the starting rotation went deeper into games, but sooner or later – especially against good competition – you will need your second, third and fourth relievers to get important outs.

I’m glad they called up Robertson, I hope Girardi gives him a fair shot. Eventually I think Ohlendorf can be an effective reliever, but he needs to work some things out in Scranton. If Robertson is performing, they better not keep Hawkins or Edwar and send DR down when Bruney returns.

A lefty would be nice, but Traber sucks and I never, ever want to see Kei Igawa again. Maybe Cashman can scoop one up before the deadline.

Long story short (not possible at this point), this bullpen could be good but it needs tweaking and its manager to get his head out of his ass.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Jun 29, 2008 1:45 PM EDT   0 recs

I must say....

I can’t disagree with any of that.

I’ve always been a fan of Ohlendorf and I think he will eventually be a reliable guy out of that pen. But Girardi really screwed around with him too much and that long man role was not for him.

Gotta believe we’ll see Cox and Melancon at some point this season, but Yankee fans are going to be ingesting a lot of Rolaids this season no matter how you cut it.

by anaconda on Jun 29, 2008 2:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Also

Those stats above don’t measure how many times Farnsworth and company have turned a non-save situation into a save situation, forcing Mo to work on a day he should have had off. Mo has been perfect, but who knows if all this work will catch up to him.

And they also don’t account for games like the first game on Friday. The Yankee offense was rolling along pretty good, but the bullpen couldn’t hold the game together. Edwar, Ohlendorf and Hawkins turned a see-saw battle into a laugher.

"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death

by matthaggs on Jun 29, 2008 4:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Bullpen ...

It’s been hot and cold, actually. Farnsworth has looked … well, nearly brilliant once in a while, and like Farnsworth other times. Ohlendorf has not impressed me much, and Hawkins is a bust. But that said, Veras, Mo have been fabulous.

The bullpen isn’t bad, and if I might channel the late ARoth, I’d grade them a B-

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jun 30, 2008 11:10 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

right

but even with the occasional return of Professor Farnsworthless, the combination of 6 quality innings from the starter, then Farnsy, Veras and Mo is usually going to lead to a “W.” I know I don’t shudder with fear when he gets on the mound like I did last year.

by DocBrown82 on Jun 30, 2008 11:46 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Especially ...

When we’re sporting a 2+ run lead. The way I see it, Farnzie comes in and promptly gives up his complimentary homer before shutting them down. I’m cool with that—so long as he comes in at the start of an inning.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Jun 30, 2008 4:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Pinstripe Alley, an SB Nation blog about the 26-time World Champion New York Yankees.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Beltran
Small
Being A Yanks Fan Outside of NYC
Small
Jake Peavy
Mickey-mantle-at-yankee-stadium-1963-photographic-print-c10115880_small
Bobby Abreu
Small
Casey Kotchman
Small
Yankees Next to be Cursed?
Untitled_small
Joe Torre is Sweet Lou's Daddy
Leprechaun4_small
Moose or Pettite
Small
K-Rod? Question
59756144_8c5777e40f_o_small
Question for a Photo

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Managers

Mick_05_small anaconda

Dsc00073_small jscape2000

Small John Amato

Fist_2000_rings_small Ronster22

Small Travis G

ad

Site Meter