Pitching- What are we going to do with them?
Pete A at LoHud reports Jeff Karstens is feeling well and anxious to do a few rehab appearances. Phil Hughes will not be ready to throw for a little while, but it won't be long. Ian Kennedy is coming back.
So in a couple weeks our starter list looks like: Wang, Pettitte, Moose, Rasner, Kennedy, Karstens, Hughes, Joba?. That looks a lot like eight to me, for 5 slots.
Last nights loss followed Pettitte with Britton, Veras, and Edwar Ramirez. To me Britton looks like he deserves some more innings, as does Ramirez. Veras has had a good outing and a shaky one, but has the kind of arm which should get him a decent look. Even with Bruney and Albaladejo hurt we have more arms than slots, with a bunch of talent rehabbing from Tommy John. If Joba leaves the pen some starter in the list above has to go to the pen or the minors.
Pitching in the minors can help with developing talent but there are limitations. Once a pitcher gets where the Trinity were last year or Rasner was this spring they need to face Big League hitters. They are different than minor leaguers because they are so much better and smarter. To keep developing these guys need to pitch in the majors.
So, what are we going to do with them? I hate seeing Chris Britton on the Scranton shuttle. He has too many walks but I think he can pitch in the big leagues.
I wonder if there will be any market for Hawkins. Is there any market for turning several of the more marginal guys into a top guy somewhere?
The Yankees do have needs for the future in the outfield and at catcher, but I really like Cano and Gonzalez and Arod for a long time. I think Jscape is right that Jeter or Posada will end up playing first. Derek could play outfield if he would.
The current baseball world is one of parity. It is not clear how the Yankees will be able to find another period of dominance. Maybe part of the answer is the glut of young talent, at least on the mound.
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The way I see it, as long as Kei Igawa is on
the roster, the Yankees do not have remotely enough pitching.
Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. --Billy Martin
by garp on May 13, 2008 11:45 AM EDT 0 recs
Well said ...
The guy is a bum (or the Japanese equivelant). I hate cutting a player-especially one that is owed big coin. But in this case I’d make an exception. He was a colassal mistake made by the Yankees brass-a knee jerk reaction to Boston signing Dice-K.
I wouldn’t move Igawa to the rotation, to the pen, to the minors—just to the curb with the other trash.
I think if IPK and Hughes can effectively channel their 2007 auras, we have a nice situation with Wang, Pettitte, (I can’t believe I’m saying this-Mussina), Rasner, and either Hughes or IPK. Someone is going to breakdown again for multiple starts-my money is on Moose, so having a plethora of starters in the wings is a good idea—but only if said starters can throw strikes.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
May 13, 2008 2:20 PM EDT
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Ron have you seen Veras?
What do you think? Does he have too much recoil. Seemed to me like an arm with a lot of zip.
I want to point out that nowhere in my whole depth chart did I mention K Igawa.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
by Cbeck3 on
May 13, 2008 3:38 PM EDT
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Veras
I haven’t seen much of him, but he does seem to have a live arm. Motion to me is arbitrary because I’ve always been told and now tell kids to go with whatever motion is comfortable. Some throw 3/4, others over the top. Some throw across the body in a slingshot manner, others buggy whip the ball over a stiff front leg. Bottom line: Since throwing is an unnatural motion, there is always a propensity for injury. I really think it comes down to genetics.
Veras doesn’t have what I would consider to be a free and easy motion—ala Mo. But I do think if that’s his natural motion and he can repeat his delivery and throw consistent strikes, he is what we want and need.
I’d like to see less of Igawa, Hawkins, and more of Farnsworth, Veras, and now Britton.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on May 13, 2008 4:30 PM EDT 0 recs
Excuse me Mr. General Manager?
Can we trade you four of our marginal arms for one of your good ones and then throw in Giambi?
Seriously, the Chris Britton’s of the world are a dime a dozen. Still only 25, the 280 pound behemoth still has time to be the first 300+ pound pitcher in the majors.
Stated above – “I hate seeing Chris Britton on the Scranton shuttle. He has too many walks but I think he can pitch in the big leagues.”
That’s the point – he walks too many hitters. You can’t be a relief pitcher and walk hitters. A starter can get away with a few walks, but a relievers first job is to throw strikes.
That is why Britton is always on the Scranton shuttle.
There are too many arms in the bullpen on this team right now. There are 8 relief pitchers on the current active roster. Isn’t that insane? You don’t need Britton and Veras on the roster together – they are the same type pitcher as is Farnsworth and Hawkins. How many of those type of guys do you need?
Dump a few of them and bring up more guys who can play a position – like Brett Gardner or can play some specialty offense like pinch run (for Giambi or Molina), steal a base and play good defense.
The Yankees pitching is not the problem. Too many pitchers is the problem.
What are the Yankees going to do when they bring up Kennedy? Can’t send down Igawas – he is now their “long man.”
by thejobarules on May 14, 2008 12:24 AM EDT 0 recs
Um
Why can’t they send down Igawa?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on
May 14, 2008 12:35 AM EDT
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Igawa will absolutely get sent down Thursday
No question about it.
by anaconda on
May 14, 2008 12:56 AM EDT
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Don't send him down ...
CUT HIM.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
May 14, 2008 9:28 AM EDT
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Amen
Waste of Roster slot. Resign him to a minor league deal after he clears waivers if your pride demands it.
Better yet try to sell signing rights to Japan! He was good there! They might take a chance.
I wish.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
by Cbeck3 on
May 14, 2008 9:55 AM EDT
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They can and should send Igawa out but Girardi's statement today reads...
but Girardi’s statement today reads…”I could see using him (Igawa) in long relief,” Girardi said. “However we need him, we’ll use him. Right now, he’s going to go to the bullpen. I don’t know if I would use him left-on-left. It’s something we’ll think about.”
Also – “I see him (Igawa) as a starter more than anything,” Girardi said. “That’s just my opinion. I think the investment was for him to be a starter, and I think for the organization … we’ll probably try to continue to work on that at some point.”
I read “investment” in that second quote as “We (Cashman) paid a bunch of money for this guy and we are going to shove him down your throats (as we have with Giambi) to get our money’s worth.”
But you can never trust anything Girardi says because I have finally realized he is Brian Cashman’s hand puppet and Cashman is really running this team on the field. Why would any sensible baseball manager need 13 pitchers on his staff?
Notice how many times Girardi is quoted as saying about a potential roster change or starting rotation change as “that is something WE need to discuss,” or “WE haven’t had a meeting yet to discuss this move…” and so on.
Joe Girardi should tell Cashman I don’t want this overpaid lefty who can’t get anyone out to be on my team anymore. And why would Igawas need
Igawa should be released immediately and Kennedy should get the last 24 starts from that spot in the rotation – good or bad.
by thejobarules on May 14, 2008 1:12 AM EDT 0 recs
Did you watch the first 30 games?
I understand why they are carrying so many pitchers because Kennedy and Hughes were only throwing 2-4 IP per start when they were in the rotation. Before Rasner came back and made a couple of good starts, the bullpen was getting ridiculously overworked.
Now that Rasner has stabilized the back of the rotation (for two starts, anyway), carrying 13 pitchers seems to be overkill.
I’m not sure what Brett Gardner is going to do for this team because there isn’t any room for him. He can run, yes, but how often is he going to play? They really don’t need five outfielders – six outfielders if you include Shelley Duncan.
Damon has been hitting well lately. Matsui has been good all season. Melky started out well, but has struggled of late. Abreu has been off an on. You’re not going to sit any of those guys for an extended period of time in favor of a guy who has never played a major league game.
I’d be downright shocked if Igawa was not sent down on Thursday.
by anaconda on
May 14, 2008 1:45 AM EDT
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Have actually watched all 40 Yankee games
Would you take this stat line for Gardner if he played part time for the Yankees:
112 AB 29 R 30 H 2 2B 1 3B 0 HR 13 RBI 14 SB 0 CS 18 BB 13 SO .268 AVG .378 OBP .384 .298 SLG?
He would have been giving Damon a rest in left field, Melky a breather once in a while in CF and Abreu some time off in right. Damon and Abreu are 34, as is Matsui. Gardner could also pinch hit for a Gonzalez or Molina when they are playing, pinch run and steal a base for Giambi and Molina or even Matsui late in a game. How many times this year have the Yankees hit into a double play and killed a potential rally, especially late in games? Seems like a couple dozen. Stolen bases late in games can be very effective. Dave Roberts sure prove that. A stlen base elimiantes the double play threat.
The Yankees have more than enough pitchers but not enough players who can do the little things that Gardner can do.
Those numbers I mentioned above are what Jacoby Ellsbury has done this year. Now, I know that Ellsbury is mostly starting, but he has played LF and CF and filled in defensively. He also has hit three homers this year – something I eliminated from the above Gardner numbers.
I also know that Gardner has never played in the majors, but Ellsbury never played their until last year, but at least he got the chance to show what he can do. While Ellsbury was highly touted out of college and was a first round pick, Gardner was also a college star and taken in the 3rd round that same year.
His speed game in offense could provide the spark the Yankees need – filling in here, filling in there, playing good defense. I know a Yankee coach who goes to Tampa each year after the draft and he said Gardner was one of the fastest guys he has ever seen and is a weapon. The game of baseball is to score the most runs in each game – not to have the biggest names in the lineup. Many times a speedster can generate a few runs in a game by himself.
If the power game (and waiting for the 3 run homer) is gone with the absence of Arod and Posada, why not go with more of a speed game?
The Yankees just don’t have the balls to use Gardner when the chips are down.
by thejobarules on May 14, 2008 3:28 AM EDT 0 recs
Gardner has hit
2 homers this season. But do you really want to call him up to use as a late inning replacement when it’s better for his development to get regular work at AAA?
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on
May 14, 2008 6:12 AM EDT
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600 atbats
From everything I’ve read, from players I’ve spoken to, a young player needs at least 600 at bats in the minors, and then another 600 at the MLB level before the game “slows” for him.
I’m certain there are exceptions, but I do think it’s a fair rule of thumb. I would prefer to see anyone who wasn’t going to start (but had starter potential) to get their looks at the minor league level. As for Ellsbury, he’s not the phenom he was painted as last season. Teams have made adjustments, and are exploiting his weaknesses. That’s not to say he won’t adjust himself, but if you aren’t playing everyday, it’s hard to make those kinds of changes.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on
May 14, 2008 9:33 AM EDT
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Brett Gardner
has over 1200 at bats in the minor leagues, including over 300 in Triple A. Ellsbury had just over 1000 minor league at bats and 363 at Triple A.
It is time.
by thejobarules on May 18, 2008 6:29 PM EDT 0 recs









