Dave Eiland's Pitching Program

by jscape2000 on Apr 6, 2008 9:18 AM EDT in News Comment 26 comments

Under Eiland, every Yankees starter (except veteran Mike Mussina) will throw twice in the bullpen between starts. The second session will be shorter and focused on maintaining good mechanics.

It's the same program the Yankees use in the minor leagues. Andy Pettitte has been doing it for several years.

Eiland also has stressed throwing strikes and getting ahead. That's certainly nothing new. But Eiland has his point backed up by reams of statistics that show his pitchers how much trouble certain counts give them.

The early returns have been discouraging, and if this was football we'd be nearly half way through the season. Thankfully, this is baseball and we've got 157 more chances to right the ship.

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Oh really?

What's Dave Eiland's plan for Jason Giambi?! Perhaps Phil Hughes can spend his off-days throwing at Giambi's head sans batting helmet?
Why are we even pretending Jason Giambi is a viable player anymore? Shelley Duncan and Morgan Ensberg BOTH performed well enough to make this roster BASED ON MERIT - The season starts and both of them have been placed in the Witness Relocation Program and here we go again: We have to pretend Jason Giambi is actually a viable member of this team's offense. Based on...? Based on the FACT that this turd is pulling down $23.4 mil. The guy plays simply because of his ridiculous contract. Based on the logic I see being applied to the Giambi situation Kei Igawa should be firmly planted in the #3 spot in the rotation where we can all watch him go 4-20!
Check your Yankee history: Even the greatest Yankee teams featured "lunch bucket" guys in certain spots in the lineup that - while they certainly weren't stars and never would be - they served the greater good which was team success. Watching and flinching at the sight of Jason Giambi continue his miserable slog through the remnants of a cr*p career I'm constantly reminded of how much better off we would all be if this team played younger, healthier, quicker, HUNGRIER! players in place of Jason Giambi: Face it folks - stick a fork in this guy - he's done and we can wish all we want but whatever it was this guy had is now long gone and it ain't coming back no matter how many posts are made to try and find a glimmer of hope (The guy ran more in the off-season?! Come on! Are you kidding me?!?)

by Bixby on Apr 6, 2008 10:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Please stop yelling. I'm not sure were all the angst is coming from, I never said things were going to be perfect.

Jason Giambi's Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP) the last 3 seasons: 6.8, 6.2, 1.8. His ABs: 417, 466, 254.
WARP takes into account his offense and his defense. When (if) Giambi is healthy he is an above average player. He has the power and the patience to wear down the opposing pitcher and protect Alex Rodriguez.
He helps the team.

The Yanks had the best offense in the major's last season by 80 runs (and made the postseason) largely without Giambi- and with luminaries Andy Phillips, Miguel Cairo, and Doug Mienktiewitcz replacing him in the lineup. Anyone who is worried that we're doomed with Giambi in the lineup (or without Giambi in the lineup) is over reacting.

And I am of the opinion that baseball players perform best when well fed. I believe that the Yankees agree with this assessment because there is a large pre- and post-game spread given to the players (although Joe Giradri did remove the icecream machine).

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 6, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Back in the day...

...those "lunch bucket" guys weren't making that much less than the stars, who were never millionaires.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Apr 6, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unbelievable...

Where's the passion? I can recall a day when Yankee fans would have been burning this turd's uniform in effigy, instead I get some more stat jibberish...
Here's the deal -- you can play Bill James all you want (WARP?!?! WTF?!?), Jason Giambi hasn't done squat for this team. He's rarely healthy (Or whatever that means because this club has been covering for him for years by laying his cr*p performances off to this ailment or that also for YEARS!), he's NEVER carried this team in any way as a player of his supposed level should, he's NEVER been a team leader. He in no way shape or form justifies his outrageous paydays. Good grief: Enough with the justifications and start reaming this guy out for what he is: Utterly worthless.

Again with the doom charge -- all of you: GET A NEW WORD!

by Bixby on Apr 6, 2008 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sigh

Here's the thing- I'm not defending Giambi or his pay, but why would I burst a blood vessel complaining about it? Of course he's overpaid- we knew when the Yanks signed him after 2001 that there was no way he'd justify his pay.

But to suggest that he hasn't ever performed? .315/.435/.598 41HR in 2002 (+playoffs)? .250/.412/.527 41 HR in 2003 (+playoffs)? .271/.440/.535 32HR in 2005 (+playoffs)? .253/.413/.558 37HR in 2006 (+playoffs)? Find me the list of players who produced better numbers over that stretch.

You're right "doom" is the wrong word. You're not a doom and gloom guy- you're an entitlement guy. You're the type of Yankee fan who measures success for individual players only in the success of the team to win a pennant. You feel that anything less than a World Series is a failure, and that any player who can't produce World Series rings must be a failure, too.

You're the type of Yankee fan who embarasses me.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 6, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well said jscape

we need to get this guy and andy roth together so they can start their own blog and live unhappily ever after.

You don't realize how easy this game is until you get up in that broadcasting booth. -Mickey Mantle

by NumberSeven on Apr 6, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're the type of Yankee fan who embarasses me.

...and you're the kind of SPORTS fan that embarrasses me. You have some compulsion to throw stats into virtually every sentence and by virtue of your stat pomposity you seem to believe it elevates you above and beyond the level of a mere fan. You "discuss" WARP and leg stride and deem to tolerate the rest of us "amateur" fans because - of course! - we all know that a conversation about Kei Igawa's leg stride makes you the master of the blog. Good grief buddy - get over yourself. All you've been able to contribute to the conversation here is your ability to google other stat obsessed geeks who think that their vast collection of amateur scouting reports is actually interesting or useful to anyone other than guys like yourself who play amateur G.M. in their fantasy leagues!
And here's how I know your contribution is worthless: You've got a Greek Chorus of losers like #7 backing your play.

You're the type of Yankee fan who measures success for individual players only in the success of the team to win a pennant. You feel that anything less than a World Series is a failure, and that any player who can't produce World Series rings must be a failure, too.

Holy mackerel: Gee, I'm sorry if I view the game as a TEAM SPORT. You're damn right that anything less from the HIGHEST PAID TEAM IN BASEBALL BY 10's OF MILLIONS IS A FAILURE! I studied that philosophy from one of the best owners in the history of the sport: GEORGE STEIBRENNER!
Hey Stat Genius: Here's a bulletin for ya' -- The team exists to win World Series - not to give you a reason to do an Excel spread sheet on every single fart a player passed during the course of a season. You're EXACTLY the kind of guy I always shake my head at when I'm sitting at a game: YOU don't even bother to actually watch the game as you're too busy creating new notes and flowcharts on your scorecard in the hope that one day society will recognize your genius and adopt your methodology for the future fans of tomorrow...ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

by Bixby on Apr 6, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You see

I want to understand why the team has failed to win. The team is a machine, and all the parts need to work. I look at stats as one way, not the best or only way, but one way to understand how the parts fit together. I actually have done very little (hardly any) work developing stats. I very rarely keep score when I go to the ball park- I'm busy watching the game.

By the way, that scouting report on Igawa was done by professional scouts- that's why I like their blog.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 6, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You

have really no point. Everyone here expected Giambi to get hurt, why do u think the team has 4 first basemen? I don't say much around here but i do read most the posts. You bitch more then my girlfriend and you should know thats a lot. I find you extremely annoying and i wish you could do more then state the obvious when we don't win.

Cano is a Pimp

by yankeechaser on Apr 6, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why

why are you yelling?
who is George Steibrenner?

All teams exist to win a World Series but only one can. It's not us every year but we have more rings than anyone else. If we won every single year no one would tune in any more. And it would be true that we buy championships. Which we obviously don't. Even if our first round losses haven't shut up our critics, it does disprove what they've been saying all along.

It's not enough to have the highest payroll. That simply means we give the team a good chance to win. It means that our owners pay revenue sharing and luxury tax instead of pocketing the money. It means the owners pay to field a good team. Some of our choices are good, some not so good. Injuries happen. Slumps happen. Bad managing happens. Bad pitching happen. Bad fielding happens. Bats go cold at the wrong time. You can't buy your way out of any of that. It's the law of averages.

I'm not a big statistician because stats make my head hurt and though I love Jscape, a lot of his analysis makes my head hurt. But the opposite also makes my head hurt. The carte blanche, "We have to win every year otherwise we suck and there is no reason for it ." mentality.

Part of me would prefer a first round exit than losing in the 9th inning of the 7th game of the world series (2001), the world series to the Florida Marlins (2003) or the ALCS to the Red Sox (2004).

Stuff happens. It happened in 01, 03, and 04 which were worst defeats, in my eyes, than any first round exit could ever be. But they happened on the way to the championship which didn't happen that year for a variety of reasons.

Yelling and expecting championships every single time simply says "I can't handle what it takes to be a baseball fan."

Being a Yankee fan is Nirvana compared to what most team's fans have to put up with. We take our lumps and we should take them well. I will criticize the team and Cashman and the front office, but I won't demand a championship every single year. I will just hope we field the best players for the best chance for one. And then watch as humanity happens on the field. If I knew the outcome, even if it was Yankees win every single year, I'd stop watching.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Apr 7, 2008 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW

I'm actually shocked that Joe Girardi - a lunch bucket guy if ever there was one - would ever insert this guy in a starting lineup he had to sign his name to: No wonder Girardi is out sick - watching Giambi up close has made him ill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Bixby on Apr 6, 2008 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eiland's Program

I wouldn't say it's been discouraging so far. Wang and Hughes pitched very well, and Andy and Moose didn't absolutely stink up the place. We can't assess his program after one run through the rotation.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Apr 6, 2008 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Leave Eiland alone

Eiland is demonstratively better than Guidry in the role. Eiland will be fine--especially has he grows into the role. But understand, he's not a miracle worker--especially regarding Mussina, who will continue to pitch with nothing in his tank. If Eiland can suddenly add 8 mph to Mussina, there will be shrines put up to him. Old players will flock to touch his jersey--hoping some lightning will rub off on them.

"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will

by Ronster22 on Apr 7, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1 More Thing

Don Mattingly?! ZERO WORLD SERIES! A great reason why he isn't the Yankees' manager today.

by Bixby on Apr 6, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dude, chill out

If your objective is to alienate everyone on this blog, you're doing a helluva job.

I'm sure the really bad decisions by the Yankee front office during the 80s had nothing to do with Mattingly not playing on championship-caliber teams.

by anaconda on Apr 6, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought this thread was about Eiland

or did I read that wrong?

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Apr 6, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I don't know if he's addressed this or not (I tend to ignore his posts for good reason), but I wonder if Bixby named himself as such because he flies off the handle like the Hulk.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Apr 6, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by anaconda on Apr 6, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm crushed Senor.

Simply crushed to be ignored by a man of your stature. Does this mean you and I can't hug when the Yankees win their next World Series...?? Oops! I'm sorry: YOU don't read MY posts...(Always love the immature "kid" who holds his hands over his ears and yells NAAA! NAAA! NAAA! and then responds to every single comment you made as though he was taking notes on a steno pad!)

by Bixby on Apr 6, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Immature?

Should you be the one slapping that label on others?

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Apr 6, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Senor: My brother from South of the Border...

I don't know if he's addressed this or not (I tend to ignore his posts for good reason), but I wonder if Bixby named himself as such because he flies off the handle like the Hulk.

Senor: What is it about your OWN entry that you do not understand? By the way: The Hulk? The Hulk??? And I'm immature? The Hulk - for cryin' out loud? Wow that kind of literary reference really hurt there Shakespeare...

However, I again will ask: No World Series hug?

BTW: Great pic Ana: Just what this site needed - yet another graphic to make it even slower, more buggy, and more apt to freeze up!

by Bixby on Apr 6, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know

there are plenty of Yankee sites that advocate negativity and ignore anything beyond the obvious. Might I suggest you go find one of them?

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you were...

...any more literature-conscious than I am, your posts would actually make sense, and you'd use better grammar and mechanics.

"If you lived in my grandfather's house...and you wanted to eat, you had to be a Yankees fan." --Joe Biden

by SenorSwanky on Apr 6, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Waa...waa...waa...

Dude, chill out
If your objective is to alienate everyone on this blog, you're doing a helluva job.

Dude Ana: Waa, Waa, Waa... Alienate?! I couldn't care less. What? Does this mean I'm not invited over to JScape's and #7's Memorial Day wienie roast?! Good grief, what a tragedy THAT would be in my life!
mmm... Let's see what that conversation would be like:
JScape: "Hey there #7, good to see ya' bud: Say I was just putting the finishing touches on my study of backup Yankee catchers. My study will show conclusively that when a back up Yankee catcher plays on a Sunday following a Saturday night game that the other team's 1st baseman hits .287 with a runner on second....and here's where it gets interesting #7: When the runner is from the Dominican Republic, the average of the 1st baseman drops to .269!"
#7: "Genius! Sheer genius! You're THE Man, JScape! Can I put some mustard on that wiener of yours?"

Ana - Please excuse me: I have some more video of LaTroy Hawkins bowel movement I have to analyze...

by Bixby on Apr 6, 2008 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs