One Series in the Books

by jscape2000 on Apr 4, 2008 12:43 AM EDT in Game Recap

Against a Blue Jays team whose pitching staff might just be the class of the American League (when healthy) the Yankees looked pretty good.

Ok, so Mike Mussina looked mediocre- 3ER (1 unearned) in 5.2IP, but that's going to be enough for the Yankees to win most days.

Meanwhile, CMW and Franchise looked exactly the way we want them to: combined 13IP 10H 4ER.

The strong performances by Wang and Hughes has allowed the bullpen to look its best too. Joba and Mo both looked good, and Ohlendorf brought that bowling ball in from the pen to record his inning of work in only 9 pitches (2 groundouts and a K). I'm not going to get too worked up because I know Ross needs to polish that splitter, but I'm allowed to be excited any time we take 2 out of 3 from a good club.

And a good club is what we face next in the Tampa Bay Rays. The probables:

IPK against junkballer Andy Sonnanstine (who handcuffed the Yanks last August- 2 hits, 8IP).
Andy Pettitte will come off the DL to square off with former Dodgers wunderkind Edwin Jackson.
Wang will enjoy the Yanks only April daytime getaway day by facing the Rays' James Shields (whom the Yanks have owned, lifetime 0-4 8.53 ERA). I expect a pitchers' duel decided in the bottom of the ninth.

0 recs | Comment 19 comments

Read Related

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Agreed, good start

And I liked the bunt bunt to set up the winning run.

I know that's a minority opinion here.

A plus for Joe G. Every man in the bullpen has been in the game. Every man in the bullpen has his feet on the ground without disaster. A nice start. We need to get Andy and IPK started. Of the bench players (position) I think we've only seen Molina. So, I'd like to see Ensberg, Shelly and Betemit get to hit.

I wonder who will go down so Pettitte can be activated. Bruney, Ohlendorf?

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

by Cbeck3 on Apr 4, 2008 1:29 AM EDT 0 recs

I'm hoping Bruney

but betting on Jonny A.

"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."

by jscape2000 on Apr 4, 2008 1:43 AM EDT up 0 recs

This series

What I liked:

The small ball.
The Yankees trust in Joe Girardi
Frank Thomas dubbing Joba/Mo combo the "mojo"
Frank Thomas being ejected even though he was right.
The fact that no one said ha or was accused of doing so
Phil Hughes
CMW
Arod continuing to smash the ball.
Melky's first "Trade me? I'll show ya" night.
pwning doc hallady
most of the bullpen (though I'd like Patterson in the bp)
We have a good backup catcher
The fact that baseball is back

What I didn't like:
Alex Rios
The sleepy offense (though I don't think it will stay sleepy)
Michael Kay
No playing of Duncan and Betemit. Hopefully Joe G has some plans for them.
The fact that the Yankees still give me heart attacks
Fans seem to be giving up on Matsui. I didn't hear the love he normally gets. He's given a lot over the past 5 years.
Not only is Michael Kay calling the games but he's calling the commercials for Yankee Stadium. The "If These Walls Could Talk" commercial is good but like someone said over at RAB, "If these walls could talk, they'd tell Michael Kay to shut up."
I can't take 162 games of homage to Yankee Stadium. The hype is going to overtake the sentiment. By the end I'm going to be like, "Okay tear it down and shut up about it already."
___

Whatever:

Moose is not on either list. He wasn't bad but he wasn't great. I think he needs to move down in the rotation.

I'd love to see Joba in the rotation and Patterson in the bullpen but I'll take what we have now.

There's more for all lists but I have to go to work. :)

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Apr 4, 2008 7:20 AM EDT 0 recs

Joba?!

I agreed with virtually the entirety of Jscape's wrap on this series. But I continue to be shocked at suggestions like the one in bxgrl commentary above about seeing Joba in the rotation. I absolutely love Joba as the set up man and I think you'll see a renewed vigor on the part of Mo as a result. Joba in the 8th in support of Mo gives you another obvious plus. In money games you can also stretch Joba into the 9th and reserve Mo for extra innings...How many times have we seen Mo have to leave a tied playoff game and everyone has to shut their eyes in horror at what comes after a Mo Rivera...A Joba/Mo combo in the pen means the Yankees can play 11 innings with anyone...Unless they can clone Joba let's leave well enough alone with Joba right where he is.
The opening series gave us two advanced previews of two guys on the downside: Mussina and Giambi. Giambi - This one's for you: Three down 159 to go. Seeya' pal! MY prediction: Next year sees Jason Giambi doing a Doug Mientkiewicz and playing for chump change in some A.L. backwater...Hello oblivion, thy name is Jason!

by Bixby on Apr 4, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

I'm probably one of the most rabid supporters

of the "Joba should be in the rotation" argument.

Oddly enough, I think Sweeny Murti has done an outstanding job breaking down and explaining the reason why it makes the most sense here and here.

by anaconda on Apr 4, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up 1 recs

Thanks for those articles

I really really like having Joba in the bullpen, but reading that helped me realize that it's probably only because I've been traumatized by relievers not named Rivera for the past several years...

by Jugwine on Apr 4, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up 0 recs

That's nice...

These are great arguments and I won't even try to take them on because of this:

Each and every player on this team is here for one reason: To win a World Series. I absolutely agree with the THEORY of what was said in those two articles, but it's about the Team. The team needs a monster combo in those late innings to be successful. Read your Yankee history dating back to Sparky Lyle and Dick Tidrow: The Yankees have always - ALWAYS - been most successful when they had monster set-up guys that lead in to monster closers.

Check out the Yankees' history in playoff/WS games and tight playoff runs: This team doesn't actually start playing the game until the 7th inning: That's when the Yankees play Yankee baseball. If the game, the pennant, the World Series depend on what you do from the 7th/8th on, you darn well better have 2 go-to arms sitting in that pen. You guys are huge stat guys: Check out what I'm saying -- The Yankees have cleaned up when they had TWO guys who scared opponents the way Joba & Mo are capable of doing. BTW: I found it interesting that both articles quoted former players who like Joba out of the pen...
Isn't it great how opposing scouts who saw all this great stuff from Joba when he was at Neb. - i.e. - the body and arm motion, the ball movement all leapt off the bandwagon when the guy got a slight boo-boo...Geez, here's "once in a lifetime guy" and the scouts left town faster than you can say Andrew Brackman!!!
Couple of other observations: I always find it interesting that anon "scouts" comment on what other clubs are doing with their players (Especially as it relates to the Yankees!) -- I think there's a whole campaign of misinformation when it comes to commentary on the Yankees and their players from other teams... I once read a scout scoff at the Yankees bringing up and using Melky instead of Kevin Thompson! Anyone seen Kevin Thompson recently?!
Lastly: Mo Rivera ain't going to last forever folks: Yes, a "once in a lifetime" starter is always wonderful -- but the game ain't won in the first 6 innings - The Yankees I know win their games in the final 2 or 3 innings (Just ask last night's STARTER - and the "next Roger Clemens" Phil Hughes!)...At some point, we're all going to have to come to grips with the need for this organization to produce an heir to the throne of Mo...

by Bixby on Apr 4, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

Monster set-up guys

That's not exactly true. They did have a dynamite 1-2 punch in 1996, but that was a one-year experiment. Once Mo proved to be the more dominant pitcher, they let Wetteland walk and made Mo the closer in 1997.

The trio of Mendoza, Nelson, and Stanton were a solid bunch in the late 90s, but they were far from dominant. That's a common misconception among Yankee fans. I think people tend to over-exaggerate their "greatness" because the team won with this formula. The rings this team won in '98, '99, and '00 had a lot more to do with the depth in their rotation and Mo to shut it down than the middle relief.

Again, those guys were a solid bunch - no question. But dominant? Not a chance.

It was the strength of the starting pitching that allowed that trio not to get over-exposed and it maximized their effectiveness.

by anaconda on Apr 4, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

World Series Rings?

I'll have to stand by my assertion that success for the Yankees comes from BOTH their set up men and their closers (i.e. - WS in '96, '98, '99, 2000) Because - at the end of the day - that's what counts...
I get a bit flustered by the logic applied here in the sense that fans like bxgrl1 think the Yanks are "cheating" Joba out of his shot at "greatness". Yikes! I thought it was about winning as a TEAM that mattered the most?
I also think there's a bit of "looking down your noses" at the reliever role - which is not uncommon amongst both fans and the press which explains why Goose Gossage had to wait forever to get into the HOF.
But hey! At the end of the day, isn't great that this is the most we can find to debate about?!
P.S. - Anaconda, I'm getting frustrated by this new SBNation version - the site loads slower than heck and it's very "balky" when moving about...even freezes up...I have cable connection and not experiencing this elsewhere...Is it just me...?

by Bixby on Apr 4, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

I've been having problems with PA today as well

SB Nation is on it. I'm wondering if all the videos being loaded is the biggest contributor to it freezing.

by anaconda on Apr 4, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

This site --

This site has really become a mess. There's just waaaay too much and it's just starting to look like the desk of the guy down the hall from me...A total disaster area that just overwhelms...Do we really need ALL this stuff?!? I mean come on: I could care less about 99% of what's here...I come here to interact with other Yankee fans and SB Nation has apparently convinced themselves that each site visitor requires a multi media experience resembling Disneyworld! Today isn't the first day this site has had problems - each time you come to the site everything pretty much freezes up and God help you if you try to do anything BEFORE the site is ready for you -- the site just freezes like a deer in the headlights. A great site experience ruined for one and all. I could understand if I had dial up but for this to happen to someone on cable?!? Ridiculous. Sorry about the rant but I've seen this so many times it makes my head hurt: The thinking by folks like SB Nation is: "oh..if a little is good then a shovel full will be even better!" Uhh...no: A shovel full usually equates to a shovel full of you-know-what for the participants!

by Bixby on Apr 4, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

I was

firmly in the Joba in the bullpen and convert him to the new Mo camp for a while. I really was. But as I've looked at him and looked at the rotation and how valuable starting pitchers are, I think we need him there. And he wants to be there.

Mo has no issue being the best closer in the history of baseball but he's there because he has one pitch. One freaking awesome pitch that no one can hit. Everyone knows what he's throwing over the plate and no one can hit it.

Joba wants to be a starter. He's a young kid and he's electric. We've had too many bullpen meltdowns over the past few years to not appreciate him and what he brings as the bridge to Mo.

But I think he's a wasted talent in the bullpen. Using him as a starter who can go 7 would be better than having him as a closer.

We're spoiled with 10 years of lights out Mo. We're hungry because of the terrible bullpen (and terrible bullpen management by Torre). I know we want a Joba in the bullpen and we want a Joba as a closer.

But this Joba belongs in the rotation unless he can't handle it and he hasn't really been tested yet. I'm anxious to see him in the rotation. I not only want to see him succeed for the team in whatever position he plays but I want him to succeed in the way he wants to.

It cannot be good to convert a young starter to a reliever without ever giving him a chance to start. I don't think it's good for the pitcher or the ballclub and there's just part of me that thinks it would be criminal to be unfair to this kid. He wants to be a starter, he should be allowed to start. If he's the new Clemens, we're all going to be happy. If he's not maybe he becomes the closer. But I think he needs to start and show us 7 innings of Joba time before we make those decisions.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Apr 4, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up 0 recs

I love Joba time

and love him in the bullpen

but he's a talent who belongs in the rotation

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Apr 4, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up 0 recs

It'd be a minor miracle

if they play tonight. It is miserable here this morning, and expected to stay miserable through tomorrow.

"Just when they think they got all the answers, I change the questions."
-- Roddy Piper

by matthaggs on Apr 4, 2008 9:07 AM EDT 0 recs

I know

it's supposed to clear up this evening but who knows if it will. I just hope it's dry for tomorrow afternoon. Friends from out of town (way out of town) came in just to see Andy start and give him some love. I don't know if he will.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Apr 4, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up 0 recs

Hughes

I mentioned on the Game Thread last night that as good as Hughes looked, he needs to mix in his other pitches a bit more, especially the second and third time through the order and against tougher AL lineups.

RAB has a piece this morning and made the same point. There will be times when he goes out there without his nasty curve ball, so he's going to have to show AL hitters something else.

This isn't a knock at all against Hughes - he was great. I'd just like to see him utilize his other pitches to be more effective.

by anaconda on Apr 4, 2008 10:53 AM EDT 0 recs

I trust Eiland

to bring him along.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by bxgrl1 on Apr 4, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up 0 recs

As exciting as Phil and Joba are...

I'm more anxious to see what kind of good jump( hopefully ) to the season Kennedy can get.

Without the pure stuff of the other two guys, Ian's future seems harder to project. That being said, his success is every bit as important as the other two youngsters. I've heard alot of unqunatifiable things when his name comes up: make-up, battler, etc...

As I recall there was quite a difference of opinion here on PA about him last year as well. I was dissapointed to see him left off the playoff roster last year ( although I believe there was a tired arm argument ).

Personally, I'm in the positive camp on Ian's future. Go Yanks!

"You play the game to win the game, and not to worry about what's on the back of the baseball card at the end of the year." - Paul O'Neill

by yankee come lately on Apr 4, 2008 2:18 PM EDT 0 recs