The facts about VELOCITY going back in history.
History shows peak velocity is developed at a very young age and pitchers don't normally gain additional mileage on their fastballs as they get older and their bodies mature. Velocity is a natural talent. No different than world class short distance runners. They don't all of a sudden at 15 show this incredible talent. They stand out a very young age like pitchers do with their velocity. Here are pitchers from different eras and when they got their major velocity.
Wikipedia Dwight Gooden Gooden made his major-league debut on April 7, 1984 with the New York Mets at the age of 19. He quickly developed a reputation with his 98 MPH fastball and sweeping curveball, which was given the superlative nickname of "Lord Charles," in contrast with "Uncle Charlie," a common nickname for a curveball. Wikipedia Josh Beckett Beckett is typically called a power pitcher. While many power pitchers evolve into finesse pitchers later in their careers, it has recently been noted that Beckett has already started to rely more on finesse pitching, but still possesses top-level velocity. His four-seam fastball ranges from 92-98 mph, and Beckett imparts heavy tailing action to move it through the zone. He complements this with a two-seam fastball (91-94 mph) John Sickels Josh Beckett Rookie profile: Josh BeckettBy John Sickels
Special to ESPN.com By John Sickels Beckett is the prototype young pitcher: all of his offerings are above-average, and he throws strikes. His fastball is the headliner: hitting 97 at times and clocking a consistent 94-95. The pitch also has good movement; it is not a straight heater that hitters tee-off on. Beckett was 21 when Sickels wrote this report.
From Yahoo Sports Brien Taylor Lord, that fastball. They swear it tickled 85 when he was 12. In his senior season, Taylor worked 88 innings, struck out 213 hitters and walked only 28. His fastball rested at 95 mph and often hit 98 and 99. Taylor was 19 at the time From minorleaguenews.com Joel Zumaya Joel Zumaya is another of our diamond in the rough players. Plucked from Bonita High School in the very busy, for scouts at least, talent market of San Diego County, his early looks by scouts were pretty ho-hum.
The routine reporting sent him into the 11th round of the draft, where Detroit picked him up at position 320 overall.
Joel throws heat clocked in around 98mph tops. Throwing is almost inaccurate. He hurls the ball with such intensity you think, at times, that either he or the ball might explode on release. This report on Zumaya was when he was 17.
Tim Lincecum - The Future
by Richard Van Zandt, BaseballEvolution.com
August 7, 2006
From the elder Lincecum I found out that The Future has a wide arsenal of pitches that include two fastballs (a two-seamer and a four-seamer that generally settle in at 92-94, but he hit as high as 97 on Saturday and has been previously clocked at 101). Lincecum was 22 when he had this velocity.
Bob Feller had major velocity at 17, when he struck out 15 in his first major league start.
The above pitchers reached their peaks no later than 21 but most during their teen years. That is why I don't feel Phil Hughes will be a major talent. 91 MPH, without a lot of movement and no late tail is not a fastball that will have a great deal of success. And history shows that his fastball will not gain significant velocity as he gets a little older.
0 recs |
18 comments
Comments
NO ONE HERE is saying the guys
are gonna gain 10-15 MPH on their fastballs… What most here are saying is that velocity is not the be all and end all when it comes to a pitcher’s success… you yourself even brought up brien taylor.
I am not even even sure why you posted this… no one has stated that IPK or Hughes is suddenly going too add MPH. pay attention to what people are arguing you on—which is just about everything else.
go cuddle up with your radar gun and leave us all alone.
You don't realize how easy this game is until you get up in that broadcasting booth. -Mickey Mantle
by NumberSeven on Apr 20, 2008 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There's more to pitching than a fastball
Just ask Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Barry Zito, Mike Mussina, and Andy Pettitte.
Formerly known as Econolodge
by Willton on Apr 20, 2008 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
I find it far from a coincidence that you show up with ten new posts during a three game losing streak.
"Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankees win."
-- Phil Rizzuto after hearing about the Pope's death
by matthaggs on Apr 20, 2008 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
According to GameDay....
Andy Pettitte’s fastball hovered between 85-90 MPH the entire day.
He threw a grand total of 13 pitches at 90 MPH and one pitch at 91 MPH.
Of course, it’s all about the velocity.
by anaconda on Apr 20, 2008 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Andyroth is a moron!
I believe Jamie Moyer won 20 games in 2001 at age 38 and 21 games at age 40 in the big hitting AL. His top speed both those seasons was about 83 MPH.
Andyroth – if you don’t like PHil Hughes, just say so. It would save you a lot of time and effort surfing the web for more ammo to back your useless statements.
Hughes needs to throw his change up more often. It seems like he has abandoned that pitch in his arsenal.
by thejobarules on Apr 21, 2008 1:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hughes and the change
I was asking for more sliders, but the point remains the same- he needs a third pitch working to get through the batting order a third time.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Apr 21, 2008 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hughes ...
He was ineffective because he lacked command. Kennedy was the same way, although I felt he was getting pinched. Hughes so far has shown me a lack of command in the strike zone. With his stuff, he needs to be aggressive in the zone early in the counts and exploit the strikezone to his benefit in later counts. The problem is he’s not getting ahead early, and is forced to pitch defensively.
I’m not sure if it’s a weather-thing, an injury thing, or just a thing. But his command is not MLB quality at this time.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Apr 21, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hughes and the change
The Yankees usually eliminate the sliders from their young pitchers repertoire. Yankee pitching guru Nardi Contreras hates the slider (prefering the curveball) and actually taught Hughes his curveball and he stopped Hughes from throwing the slider.
I am surprised they have let Joba continue to throw the slider as that pitch has been thought to hasten elbow injuries.
Hughes’ change up was very effective for him last season, especially in the near no-hitter at Texas.
by thejobarules on Apr 21, 2008 2:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know Contreras shelved it
And I know he doesn’t really like it (which is funny, since I’ve always heard that it’s the curve that puts the most strain on the elbow).
But I thought he shelved it more to make Hughes focus on developing the other pitches, so he couldn’t fall back on that bread and butter. Hughes seemed to throw a few sliders in his last start.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Apr 21, 2008 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Slider
They can’t shelve Joba’s slider now because it just might be the best hard slider in the bigs right now. He does need to continue his other pitches, especially the change.
by anaconda on Apr 21, 2008 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not true
Thrown properly, the curve doesn’t put anymore strain on your elbow than any other pitch. I don’t teach a curve to my youngest kids because I think it’s more important they develop their fastball potential (we do alot of long-tossing). I do teach my kids (all of them 8-16) various changeups. The change in my opinion is the great equalizer, and it’s a pitch that is easy on the arm.
A slider is tough on the arm because it is a velocity pitch. However, that said, guys like Johnson, Guidry have made a living with it.
Generally though, you don’t see a pitcher throwing both a curve and a slider. It’s generally one or the other. I’m not exactly sure why that is, but I wouldn’t advocate teaching a guy a slider who already throws a plus curve.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Apr 21, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grip?
I was told once that the grip for a slider is too close, but just different enough from the curve, so that throwing one may cause you to lose your feel for the other. I don’t know, as my arm is Damon-esque.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Apr 21, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grip ...
I actually held the ball the same. The release was abit different. As the ball passes your ear you turn your palm toward your ear (like a karate chop) and pull your middle finger down off the ball while bringing your thumb up. Reach for the nightshade and pull it down. That’s what a curveball feels like.
Throwing a slider, you don’t turn your palm inward as drastically, or pull down with the middle finger. Instead, you cut through the ball with your middle finger. The pitch is a velocity pitch, and on follow through your hand should be mid-thigh. Conversely, a curveball relies on rotation. It’s vital a pitcher maximize spin and as such the hand on follow through should finish just below the knee.
I don’t think it’s a feel thing. I can’t throw a good slider-never could. I could never get the tilt. I’ve always had a decent curve. I just think it’s something a person either has or doesn’t have.
If I had to teach both, I would always pick the curve. It’s less taxing on the arm-although Rothy I’m certain you will find notable exceptions.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
by Ronster22 on Apr 21, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fascinating
Thanks Ron.
"Have faith in the Yankees, my son. Think of the great DiMaggio."
by jscape2000 on Apr 21, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 












